good bassline, bad bassline

[Ross Brown]

I find it equally disturbing when 1) you play agreat bassline and no one notices and 2) when you really screw one up... no one notices.

 

played Nothing but the Water (Grace Potter) at rehearsal last night. Song has a nice bassline... I was terrible... no one knew... I asked... nope... didn't notice.

 

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

I sometimes think other musicians perceive bass kind of like a bad itch that you have learned to live with. At some point it disappears, and it's only then that you realize it was always there ...

 

[Paul K]

Yes, sir. It sucks being invisible. Or, they don't have ears?

[Ross Brown]

no ears....

[J. Dan]

I think it's contextual. Most of the time, they just want it to provide the root for everything else and prefer it to not be noticed. However, I think during little breaks and fills where there is a space for it, that's where it can shine and be noticed.

 

There's a lot of potential downside but not so much upside. Meaning, if you hit a wrong note on the root, it can make it sound like the entire rest of the band hit a wrong note. Yet you can play your butt off and really not have it noticed - it's not noticed unless it clashes with everything else enough to make what they're playing sound wrong. Again, certain styles of music allow for a lot more space for the bass line to come out front and be recognized.

[Bennardo]

To prove to myself that the drummer and guitarist were too darn LOUD during a blues tune, I intentionally played 1/2 step higher ( A# to Bb, I think).

 

No one noticed, not even the singer with the perfect pitch.

 

 

[jeremy c]

A# to Bb is a really big difference.

 

[J. Dan]

A# to Bb is a really big difference.

[Bottom End]

There are no bad bass lines, just bad bass players

[Chad Thorne]

I sort of like the invisibility. That way I can enjoy playing the music and not have to worry about being a "showman."

 

Most people will not notice the bass line consciously. I say "Everyone's EYES may be on the star, but their BUTTS are rocking to the BASS GUITAR!" If the folks are up and dancing I feel like that's my validation/affirmation, etc.

 

And yeah, it's great fun to screw with guitar players. I once played a walking line on a blues, but employing a symmetrical diminished scale instead of the ususal. I thought it sounded kinda hip. The guitar player kept looking at his headstock tuner lol...

[zeronyne]

Part of the problem is that most PA systems and big bass amps do a poor job of articulating each note coming out of a bass in a practice room or noisy bar. I can't tell you the number of times I've felt the bass in my chest and seen the fingers flying around the fretboard, but had no idea what was being played.

[Richard W]

Ross, you say your one line was "terrible," but that no one noticed. What does "terrible" mean to you? I think we all muff lines at various points--fret poorly, miss a note, get off rhythm a little bit--at least I know I do. Most people in a bar, at least in my experience, are not listening just for the bass line. They are listening to the entire mix of sound, they are singing along in their own heads whatever you're playing (if you're doing covers), and they are talking with friends and otherwise dealing with a lot of other distractions. In that context, it's no wonder no one notices and any minor mistakes you make--while they might seem "terrible" in your mind--are unnoticeable.

 

Now, if your playing really is "terrible"--like off a step or more, or playing in the wrong time signature or tempo--then, yes, I'd say people would probably notice.

 

Here's how I look at it: I'm playing for myself and my band mates. I'm good enough that the average listener is going to think I'm playing well, even if I hit some clams. If I play "terrible" I'm the only one who notices. If I play great, I take tremendous satisfaction in doing so. Whether anyone notices one way or the other is sort of beside the point.

[Ross Brown]

I kept missing changes... The song moves fast and I did not keep up... I normally can.. just a bad day... I agree most folks don't notice unless it is real bad... I thought this was... hahahahahaha.... oh well.... the rest of the evening was fine... it was just striking to me that I could be so bad and "get away with it"....

[b5pilot]

Part of the problem is that most PA systems and big bass amps do a poor job of articulating each note coming out of a bass in a practice room or noisy bar. I can't tell you the number of times I've felt the bass in my chest and seen the fingers flying around the fretboard, but had no idea what was being played.

 

In my opinion it's not the PA or the amp but how it's set up.

EQ it like mud and it sounds like mud. A lot of FOH operators don't seem to get it.

 

Victor Wooten did an experiment in his Groove Workshop video where he played all off key notes but grooved it and then all the notes within a key but with no groove. Oddly enough the off key one sounded better because of the groove.

 

Point is most people won't notice unless it's not grooving.

[Paul K]

Part of the problem is that most PA systems and big bass amps do a poor job of articulating each note coming out of a bass in a practice room or noisy bar. I can't tell you the number of times I've felt the bass in my chest and seen the fingers flying around the fretboard, but had no idea what was being played.

 

Right on. But is it perhaps the sound person? Last month I saw Steely Dan in Canandagua. Great gear, fur sher. Yet the nuance from the Chuck Rainey bass lines where gone.

[Tom Capasso]

I'm going to focus on one group - bandmates (and other musicians).

 

If I blow a note in a song, no one says anything. I've asked - sometimes they hear it sometimes they don't. By their own admission they are sometimes concentrating on their own playing. Sometimes they can't hear me due to positioning/sound/room/etc.

 

There have been times where I've screwed up more like Ross described (though thankfully not often). I did hear it from a few bandmates, which was good because they noticed and wanted to improve our product.

 

Because we do covers, I'm expected to "cover" the part. There have been times when I've been complimented, but not often. And in fairness, I don't say something about every cool part that the band covers (though I'll occasionally compliment them).

 

My new duo is a different situation all together. We both have lots to say about the playing, and my mate Bob sometimes is really complimentary. We do Penny Lane and he kept saying how great it was that I had the walk in the verse going. Obviously it's a lot easier to hear what goes on with just two of us.

 

I'm anxious to hear from other church-players. I don't get compliments in church that often, but some of the players and leaders have made it clear that there is a huge drop-off when I can't make it. I appreciate that they say that, but they haven't had a bassplayer but me for a long time. I think some of it is the parts I play and some of it is just having the low end.

 

Tom

[Eric VB]

Ross, if you messed up the bass line in Part 1 then there's no helping you.

 

I couldn't find a studio version of Part 2. Instead I found a guitar player's dream version of a live recording from Seattle/2013. Everything (including vocals) is muted and muddy except the guitar.

 

Anyway, in Part 2 I'd say you could get away with improv; I don't know if there's a bass line to learn note-for-note.

 

Yes, there are changes. Changes with obvious "hits" and stops/starts. If you're off on the timing and people don't notice you're probably too quiet for the mix.

 

To paraphrase b5pilot, if you get the rhythm right but the notes wrong people are less likely to notice.

 

I was going to say that sometimes your bandmates can get so wrapped up in doing their own thing that they don't notice your mistakes. Then I remembered the open jam I was at recently. Some guy (not a drummer) was on drums. It was painfully obvious when he randomly switched snare hits back and forth from backbeats to downbeats. The first couple of times I added an extra beat to put the train back on the tracks but after a while I just had to tune him out.

[Eric VB]

I'm anxious to hear from other church-players. I don't get compliments in church that often, but some of the players and leaders have made it clear that there is a huge drop-off when I can't make it. I appreciate that they say that, but they haven't had a bassplayer but me for a long time. I think some of it is the parts I play and some of it is just having the low end.

When I played bass at my church (folk/traditional hymns) it was made crystal clear that all instruments were there only to support the piano. Under those circumstances it's hard to do anything more than plain vanilla. I don't recall many compliments, if any.

 

When I play in the bell choir we do receive compliments.

 

The big difference is the folk group performs every week; the bells perform 3-4 times a year.

 

So from a parishioner's point of view, why compliment the usual fare? Maybe if the music is particularly stirring on a given day.

 

I've heard the other bass players at church. I'd say we all do an equally well plain vanilla. Not much room for compliments.

[Ross Brown]

Ross, if you messed up the bass line in Part 1 then there's no helping you.

 

I couldn't find a studio version of Part 2. Instead I found a guitar player's dream version of a live recording from Seattle/2013. Everything (including vocals) is muted and muddy except the guitar.

 

Anyway, in Part 2 I'd say you could get away with improv; I don't know if there's a bass line to learn note-for-note.

 

Yes, there are changes. Changes with obvious "hits" and stops/starts. If you're off on the timing and people don't notice you're probably too quiet for the mix.

 

To paraphrase b5pilot, if you get the rhythm right but the notes wrong people are less likely to notice.

 

I was going to say that sometimes your bandmates can get so wrapped up in doing their own thing that they don't notice your mistakes. Then I remembered the open jam I was at recently. Some guy (not a drummer) was on drums. It was painfully obvious when he randomly switched snare hits back and forth from backbeats to downbeats. The first couple of times I added an extra beat to put the train back on the tracks but after a while I just had to tune him out.

 

Part 2, thank you....

 

I CAN play it... I just didn't play it well.... I love this song... grooves nicely... There is room for a nice little bass ditty in the middle.... I am working on that.... I faked it last time and that part was ok.... walked right out of it in perfect time.... the rest of the song was ... just ... well.. funny... next week will be better...

[Groove Mama]

Victor Wooten did an experiment in his Groove Workshop video where he played all off key notes but grooved it and then all the notes within a key but with no groove. Oddly enough the off key one sounded better because of the groove.

So funny. I was just talking about this last night. I've heard Victor do this live, and yep, the off-key version was superior.

 

Hey,

.

[Groove Mama]

Victor Wooten did an experiment in his Groove Workshop video where he played all off key notes but grooved it and then all the notes within a key but with no groove. Oddly enough the off key one sounded better because of the groove.

So funny. I was just talking about this last night. I've heard Victor do this live, and yep, the off-key version was superior.

 

Hey,

.

Oh,

ya go.

[J. Dan]

Part of the problem is that most PA systems and big bass amps do a poor job of articulating each note coming out of a bass in a practice room or noisy bar. I can't tell you the number of times I've felt the bass in my chest and seen the fingers flying around the fretboard, but had no idea what was being played.

 

Right on. But is it perhaps the sound person? Last month I saw Steely Dan in Canandagua. Great gear, fur sher. Yet the nuance from the Chuck Rainey bass lines where gone.

 

THIS!!!

 

I hate sound guys who thinks bass means...well, bass. All low end and it's just mud - you can't even make out notes. It should be soid, but enough mid to be clean. I think kick should have the thump, and bass should define the root via the note - which needs to be distiguishable. That's just me. But that's my story and i'm sticking to it!

[Russkull]

I'm anxious to hear from other church-players. I don't get compliments in church that often, but some of the players and leaders have made it clear that there is a huge drop-off when I can't make it. I appreciate that they say that, but they haven't had a bassplayer but me for a long time. I think some of it is the parts I play and some of it is just having the low end.

Tom, more of it is your playing than you think. I believe that musicians (yes, even church musicians ) appreciate someone who takes it seriously and does the best job they can. I have been told by other worship team members that they enjoy it when I'm playing, which is a huge compliment and one I'm glad to take.

 

But I personally get a little nervous if I get noticed/complimented by other people in the church. That's the one place where you're supposed to blend in, serve the song, and not be the center of attention.

[Nicklab]

no ears....

 

No ears means they probably aren't listening to themselves critically, either. Might be time to try trading up.

[5 string Mike]

I'm anxious to hear from other church-players. I don't get compliments in church that often, but some of the players and leaders have made it clear that there is a huge drop-off when I can't make it. I appreciate that they say that, but they haven't had a bassplayer but me for a long time. I think some of it is the parts I play and some of it is just having the low end.

Tom, more of it is your playing than you think. I believe that musicians (yes, even church musicians ) appreciate someone who takes it seriously and does the best job they can. I have been told by other worship team members that they enjoy it when I'm playing, which is a huge compliment and one I'm glad to take.

 

But I personally get a little nervous if I get noticed/complimented by other people in the church. That's the one place where you're supposed to blend in, serve the song, and not be the center of attention.

 

To me, it's ok to receive a compliment. I don't think it's intended to place you on a pedestal, so to speak, it's that they appreciate what you do and the effort you put in to sound good.

 

I've learned just because someone noticed you doesn't mean they didn't focus on God. It added to an ambience that enabled them to have a better experience. In my experience, that makes a more meaningful experience for them as a congregant and me as a team member.

 

It's just like if you have a deep revelation during the sermon and you tell your pastor "great sermon", that doesn't necessarily mean that you are talking about his prose or witty jokes, but you connected and learned through it. When someone tells me I played real well, I take that is they were engaged and made a stronger connection through it. I genuinely appreciate it and thank them.

 

My $.02

[Ross Brown]

no ears....

 

No ears means they probably aren't listening to themselves critically, either. Might be time to try trading up.

 

I tell my wife... I am not good enough to play in the band I'd like to play in.... I would like to be stretched....

[Nicklab]

That's what every musician should be striving to do: play with musicians that are better than you. It's been the catalyst for many a musician improving their own playing.

[Ross Brown]

yes... I am striving.....