Theo Verelst Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Just recently I got this album in pristine 176 kS/s 24 bits from HDtracks (see here for info ), and of course enjoyed in my high quality monitors. Even the studio processing I've been working on fits the record and brings out more depth and warmth to the sound than I expected, it's recommended, and of course for either morons or relative newbies amo(u)ng us: this is one of the classical Jazz fusion albums with synthesizers to which most other could not and still can not be measured for musical depth and ability, and production quality. For non-newbies: it's a great download for the money if you have a quality high sample frequency player, no messing with the audio, no imperfections I could make out, no (post-)post-production to mess things up, perfect for your super HiFi systems. I was wondering if come of you covered these types of songs and specifically the Zawinul parts. Especially I'd be interested to know if someone would recommend simulation software for the "Oberheim Polyphonic" parts ? And if so : does it come close ? I mean by that: if you'd put it on a nice PA would you get the getting sweeped of your feet feeling, but subtle of course, or just some blurting little waves remotely reminiscent of the real thing? Seriously, though. Theo V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I play Birdland and A Remark You Made quite often. Teen Town occasionally. For Oberheim patches, the choice is between the Oberheim SEM V and OP-X I like OP-X. It's sounds quite close to a hardware SEM and the 12dB resonance is sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 A Remark You Made... Oooooooh, smooth - like buttah "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Our company jazz band plays the CD arrangement of Birdland. We do all the parts, the bass player even pulls off the Jaco bits. I perform it on OB-X, Memorymoog, Taurus pedals, and EP. The opening notes on OB-X... oh my. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I've held a Weather Report ensemble class for a couple of years. We played pretty much all of Heavy Weather, including less-played tunes like Palladium and Havona. Doing those song is one of the highest thrills a musician can reach. I pushed my students to their limits and beyond... a great experience for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 That must be a good class, but of course "playing" and *playing* aren't entirely the same concepts here.. I played Teen Town in a univ. Jazz combo in the 90s, with reasonable chords on the (Roland) RD300, sometimes a JX8P and later on JD9000 (or what is it called, the digital one with sliders that also has passable piano/other stuff), but nowhere near the original analog sounds and synth lines, for sure. The original album cover reads "polyphonic Oberheim" and "ARP 2600", but on the album version (the HDtracks version is a little different I think because it might be a "for radio" master), there surely are effects and production tricks of various kinds (mostly evident probably the special stereo effect and the sometimes emphasized reverb tail). Sampling still has limitations, so some parts can be really sliding out of the speakers like skateable ice, some room revs can work even fine to get that nice LP sound, and a lot of things improve with taking the highest audio frequencies (I can easily hear 18 kHz and higher, as the highest eq/processing band) away from 10% close to the Niquist frequency (half the sampling frequency, above which frequency components will alias back into the audio band, because of the theory), but even with good 24 bits converters (>20 bits probably suffices for the end result), the sampled signal being converted to drive the analog amplifier (presumably) with a "reconstruction" (the "official" name in sampling theory) filter the length of milliseconds at most, is not perfect enough by far. So work remains to be done, but still those high quality media files, when AD-converted right by the producer, are worth while, and will play a lot smoother on extreme-time-length DA reconstruction filters, hopefully available on future equipment; to make discerning subtle stereo detail less of a adaptation chore and more of a feastly recognition. From a not too lengthy listening to the two mentioned plugins (is that a noun ?), I'm sure they can be used to make some music, and are more easily able to sound Oberheim-ish than my recent Linux centered) Yoshimi example, but honestly, I somewhat cringe after a few tones already because of audio properties I knew about, and now know about again. Maybe it depends a bit on productions, but they really don't make me much feel good. Maybe the crunchiness of one of them works one a combo amp, I don't know. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 That must be a good class, but of course "playing" and *playing* aren't entirely the same concepts here.. You're right... except that I forgot to mention that the keyboard player (a very talented French girl) had to come up with the right sounds on a couple of Alesis Ions, then building splits, layers and MIDI setups with those plus a Motif ES6 and a digital piano. The 'sound' part was also covered by recording studio experience, etc. I didn't intend to derail the thread anyway... I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 No, don't shut up yet, Carlo. I want to read more about your experiences with this class of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksoper Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 When Heavy Weather first came out on CD I was disappointed, primarily because it had been remixed and things weren't where I was used to hearing them. I'll be interested to hear the HDTracks version. One thing to remember about Zawinul's patches on the Oberheim 4-voice, is that he got a lot of use out of creative voice assignments and independent SEM programming. You really kind of need that synth to get those sounds. Or the Arturia VST (and I'm not a huge Arturia fan). The OPX-Pro sounds wonderful and I use it all the time, but it won't cover the cool Weather Report patches. 9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Nobody could lay out a bass line like Zawinul. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 The chords and melodic lines with the analog synth sound like nothing else when done right, I cannot imagine people find the plugins "perfect" in that sense. I think the musicians' standards are on the decay when that doesn't get checked out and normalized: so buy Prophet 12s, y'all! Of course programming analog synths becomes boring without samples, FM, effects, etc. too. So what should productions ideally sound like ? A question better answered by Weather Report in the sunny 70s than by most others, I'm sure. I'm trying to be able to influence masters (in this case high quality, high time- and quantization- resolution digital tracks) to sound in other ways, without sampling, "drawing", or all too destructive effects, preferably drawing from the material to bring out a more warm or more power-greedy or generally more pleasant mix. Let's say to create the good "LP" sound, or create a CD that sounds good on most systems. These tracks appear to change a lot trough the processing I invented (based on what I think are essential parts of A grade recordings), and maybe I'll get the "sit anywhere in the home-theatre" result some day from this. If copyright laws wouldn't be in the way I could exemplify you guys what I mean easier, why are those fair use rules not easier to use by suggesting promotion for the materials used, sigh. T T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 IMO, Joe Zawinul was a phenomenal KB player but he was the master of *playing* synthesizers. His sense of harmony and melody were off the chain. It is no secret that Weather Report was my favorite fusion band. Sometimes, I have to purposefully avoid listening to their music because it is so good that it makes me want to throw my Motif away. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It is no secret that Weather Report was my favorite fusion band. Mine too, and there have been many great ones - some of which I also love - through the years. For me, it's the compositions/arrangements, in combination with the soulful playing, that set the band apart. Man, what I would have done to be in a class like Carlo's Weather Report Class when I was in university... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevmo Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I feel blessed to have seen Jaco months before his death. Also lenny whites band (jones beach)and a few other giants of fusion jazz Al Dimiola in Morristown w/ his family in audience. Keith Jaret was freinds with my HS band teacher he came & did a private performance for us open mouth youths all of these were spiritual experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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