J. Dan Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 http://www.elzeonline.com/images/Keys.jpg Obviously, the Kronos is the nerve center of it all. Similar to my regular rig, except in place of the A70 for my lower tier, is the AX-7 which, via wireless MIDI, can be worn OR used on the lower tier. The challenge: when on the tier, there's no way to use a sustain pedal with it. The solution: route the pedal to my rack where I've got a MIDI Solutions box converting it to sustain messages and merging it with the incoming WIDI transceiver before feeding it into the Kronos. So no wires at all to the AX7 - Battery powered with a CME WIDI interface. The only thing I still need to work out is that it tilts down when on the tier, which is not comfortable for lower tier. I think I'll devise something like thick O-Rings to slip onto the arms of the lower tier to prop up the front a bit. The other unique thing with this rig is my vocal will be routed through the Kronos to utilize internal effects and allow for automatic routing into the Vocoder. The guitar player will be doing something similar as the Line 6 HD500 can allow for internal effects blocks to be used on a vocal (with separate in/out for the vocal). I will still use a Boss VF-1 for vocal effects on the mixer's FX loop. But I'll have maybe 5 or 6 generic effects combinations that will work for all of the songs (applied to both vocals). Any special effects on individual vocals will by done by our respective devices (mostly delays on specific words...Safety Dance, Rebel Yell, etc...also Flange...end of Head Over Heels..."time flies....."). I tested this out in practice over the weekend and it worked pretty well. But obviously I need a mic pre to run it into the Kronos. So that's in the rack, after which point the signal will go through the snake to the Kronos, then out the Aux 1 back through the snake to the mixer. Doesn't look so obvious from the drawing above, but basically there will be one multi pin bayonet lock connector to the rack and a fan-out to the Kronos. All the connectors are actually at one end of the Kronos. There will be a pigtail with a 4-pin XLR for the 2 sustain pedals, which will be the brick style mounted to a base with the mating connector. I say "proposed" because I'm waiting until we get further along before I make the snake in case there are any changes or unforeseen challenges along the way. Note, the mixer will sit on top of the rack, so I'll probably have another fan out the back of the rack to plug into the mixer. Then guitar and his vocal will be the only other thing to go direct to the mixer (plus out to the speakers). I could make a guitar/vocal/MIDI snake to go to the HD500 as well. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 I should also note - I've set the AX-7 up to only transmit on one channel, and no program changes. Since sequences will be running, the sequencer can handle patch changes, and the Kronos can be set up for any splits/layers. I DID however, set up the upper/lower zone buttons on the AX-7 with a +1 oct shift in upper and -1 oct shift in lower, so that I can shift octaves by pushing the upper/lower button. That way, I can cover in total, about half way between a 61- and -76 key range. It's actually a 2 oct shift going from one button to the next. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Dan, That is a sick rig, man. I would love to hear it in action with your duo, so post some video or audio when you get a chance. I'm interested because I play in a duo too, but a vocal harmonizer is as far as we go! Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 We just had our first practice Sunday. We made it through 14 songs. It was supposed to be 20 but I didn't get all the sequences done (I'm such a slacker!). I ran into some snags learning all the ins and outs of the Kronos Sequencer and mostly Drum sets, since this is the first time I've used them. But I think I have it all sorted out now, so hopefully the rest of it should go more smoothly. We'll be practicing every other weekend and the original plan was to knock out 20 songs at a time, then put together video/promo stuff, polish those 60 and start playing out. Well, we're already behind, but we'll see how it goes. I'd say after the next practice, we'll probably pick 3-4 songs to put together into sort of a medley, set up some cameras, and shoot a video. Not sure how long it will be before we start playing out. Hopefully this fall before the holidays. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 What duo are you referring to, Dan? Do they have a name? "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 What duo are you referring to, Dan? Do they have a name? Not yet The votes are in, we're weighing the options. Probably going to pick maybe the top 3 based on our criteria, come up with proposed logos, web url, and other theme-based stuff (outfits, props, etc.) and put it to a final poll. Probably need to do that within the next few weeks. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Have you got your Pilots license to operate all that Dan? . Wish I could see/hear your rig in action live when you fire it up:) Don't forget plenty of reverb on the vocals/bass out of the subs ;-). Have you considered doing a few "extended mixes" on some of your songs ,thus playing less than 60 songs?,that's what we used to/still do when we haven't got a lot of songs ready . Brett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midinut Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Dan, it does my old heart good to see someone who has OCD about equipment as bad if not worse than I do! I'm doing the same thing right now trying to put together a live rig around my laptop - using a Kronos 61 and a Keystation 88es controller. Would love to be able to use all these VST's live but have the Kronos either in addition, or without it for rehearsals and jamming. Good luck. As others, I'm dying to see how it all works out for you. Keep us posted! Hardware: Yamaha: MODX7 | Korg: Kronos 88, Wavestate | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe | Roland: Jupiter-Xm, Cloud Pro, TD-9K V-Drums | Alesis: StrikePad Pro| Behringer: Crave, Poly D, XR-18, RX1602 | CPS: SpaceStation SSv2 | Controllers: ROLI RISE 49 | Arturia KeyLab Essentials 88, KeyLab 61, MiniLab | M-Audio KeyStation 88 & 49 | Akai EWI USB | Novation LaunchPad Mini, | Guitars & Such: Line 6 Variax, Helix LT, POD X3 Live, Martin Acoustic, DG Strat Copy, LP Sunburst Copy, Natural Tele Copy| Squier Precision 5-String Bass | Mandolin | Banjo | Ukulele Software: Recording: MacBook Pro | Mac Mini | Logic Pro X | Mainstage | Cubase Pro 12 | Ableton Live 11 | Monitors: M-Audio BX8 | Presonus Eris 3.5BT Monitors | Slate Digital VSX Headphones & ML-1 Mic | Behringer XR-18 & RX1602 Mixers | Beyerdynamics DT-770 & DT-240 Arturia: V-Collection 9 | Native Instruments: Komplete 1 Standard | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2, Keyscape, Trilian | Korg: Legacy Collection 4 | Roland: Cloud Pro | GForce: Most all of their plugins | u-he: Diva, Hive 2, Repro, Zebra Legacy | AAS: Most of their VSTs | IK Multimedia: SampleTank 4 Max, Sonik Synth, MODO Drums & Bass | Cherry Audio: Most of their VSTs | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Brettymike: we don't really need 60 songs, 45 would be enough to do a gig, but we want to have extras so we can change up the setlist as needed to keep things fresh and cater to the crowd. For instance, we'll have a few slow songs that may work at some gigs but not others. We'll be able to lean more electronic or more rock, more alternative or more pop. We'll keep learning new songs until we're in the 80-100 range and probably end up dropping some. Midinut: yes, OCD definitely kicking in...it usually comes in the form of pushing a particular piece of gear to it's limits. I'll do it this way because I CAN. I would like to share a few tips/comments on things I've encountered so far that are probably outside the realm of what most people are likely doing with their Kronos.... First, the FX thing. Thanks to help from Burningbusch, I got the FX routing thing figured out so I can use IFX blocks on my voice and route them out the Aux. I Globally have it default so that the Input 1 goes directly to Aux out 1. That way, normally my vocal just passes through. The generic vocal effects from our outboard unit will be applied. On a per-song basis, if needed, I can check to override the global routing, and route the input to any IFX block, or chain, and at the end of the chain, route it to the Aux out. I can assign MIDI CC's to FX parameters, including Wet/Dry mix of a particular IFX. In order to control it, the MIDI track must have it's audio routed to that IFX block. So I use a "dummy" track with nothing but the CC messages to control the effects. For delays, I choose BPM delay so it's in sync with the song. That way if I change tempo, it automatically matches. One thing I encountered is that the input cannot take a strong signal. I'm running my Mic into a Presonus tube pre. I have the Pad engaged, volume at 20%, and input gain on the Kronos at Min to avoid "ADC overload". As such, the output level back to the mixer is lower than if I ran my Mic Direct. Editing drum sets has been a PITA. First, I wouldn't have expected to have to edit a specific Drum set in Global mode. Fine. But then if I want to save to a different location...I do and it's not there. I think it's making it a part of whatever patch exists at that location so that it can be part of Karma or something? But you can't use it as a drum set for the sequencer. I've been able to edits sets and save to their existing location. Going to look into this some more. I think there are specific locations for saving drum sets. I'll update as I learn more. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Here's a slow master piece from the 80's , Purple Rain by Prince. I've been hammering it out on piano with plenty of the old reverb and echo ;D ... http://youtu.be/aYOLEF-N3oQ Another cool one from the Stones - Wild Horses > http://youtu.be/l0QATz8aEAc Brett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I've played Purple Rain in 3 of the 5 bands I've been in. It was in the initial roundup for this one but got cut. We've got "Let's Go Crazy" and "1999". Won't be doing the stones. Doesn't really fit the genre of 80s we're doing. Would fit better in my classic rock band. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyMary Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Wow that's pretty complicated routing you've got here, Dan. I don't get why you need to feed an additional wireless sustain pedal into the Korg. Wouldn't a pedal plugged directly into kronos do the job when playing the roland manual? Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7 Rolls PM351 for IEMs. Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillplaying Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Set list please. I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Isn't Dan just the most useful guy to have in a band? Keys, sax, bass, guitar, sax, vocals - and he's his own tech and sound engineer. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Wow that's pretty complicated routing you've got here, Dan. I don't get why you need to feed an additional wireless sustain pedal into the Korg. Wouldn't a pedal plugged directly into kronos do the job when playing the roland manual? The sustain pedal plugged into the Kronos will only control the local/global channel. There is a FS input, but as far as i've found, this cannot be routed to a part on a different channel. In my other band, i ran into the same issue with my volume pedal. Unless i wanted 2 volume pedals (another plugged into my lower tier), I have to make sure parts that are controlled by the volume pedal are assigned to the top tier (kronos local control). Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Set list please. Subject to Change.... A-Ha - Take On Me Billy Idol - Dancing With Myself Cure, The - Just Like Heaven Devo - Whip It Duran Duran - Rio INXS - Never Tear us Apart Loverboy - Workin' For The Weekend Men Without Hats - Safety Dance Modern English - I Melt With You New Order - Bizzare Love Triangle Pseudo Echo - Funky Town R.E.M. - End of the World Rick Springfield - Jessie's Girl Romantics, The - What I Like About You Simple Minds - Don't You Forget About Me Soft Cell - Tainted Love Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut Thomas Dolby - She Blinded Me With Science Tommy Tutone - 867-5309/Jenny Vapors, The - Turning Japanese A Flock of Seagulls - I Ran After the Fire - Der Kommisar Bangles, The - Walk Like an Egyptian Billy Idol - Rebel Yell Buggles, The - Video Killed The Radio Star Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus Dexy's Midnight Runners - Come On Eileen Erasure - Chains of Love Escape Club, The - Wild Wild West Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams Hall & Oats - Private Eyes Human League - Don't You Want Me Information Society - What's On Your Mind Kim Wilde - Kids in America Prince - 1999 Roxette - The Look Tears for Fears - Head Over Heals Thompson Twins - Hold Me Now U2 - Desire When in Rome - The Promise Beastie Boys - Fight for Your Right Billy Squire - Everybody Wants You Bon Jovi - You Give Love A Bad Name Bryan Adams - Summer Of 69 Cars, The - Just What I Needed Clash, The - Rock the Casbah Dead or Alive - You Spin Me George Michael - Faith Greg Kihn Band - Breakup Song INXS - New Sensation J Geils Band - Centerfold Kenny Logins - Footloose Knack. The - My Sharona Morris Day and the Time - Jungle Love Outfield, The - Your Love Pat Benatar - Hit Me With Your Best Shot Poison - Talk Dirty To Me Spandeau Ballet - True Van Halen - Jump After we're out playing... Billy Idol - Eyes Without a Face Clash, The - Should I stay or Should I GO Cure, The - Love Song Duran Duran - Hungry Like the Wolf Hall & Oats - You Make My Dreams INXS - Don't Change Loverboy - The Kid is Hot Tonight Prince - Let's Go Crazy Stray Cats - Rock this Town U2 - With or Without You Cars, The - You Might Think Billy Idol - Mony Mony Duran Duran - Is there Something I should Know Much of the list is based on stuff we already did back in the 90s or that I've done with subsequent 80s bands in order to get things off the ground quickly. Once we're up and running, I'm sure we'll drop a bunch as we fine tune things and add other songs. The order basically starts with songs that I have sequences for from back in the day that just need tweaked for the Kronos/patches written, next would be songs I have partial sequences - meaning maybe I played with a band with a drummer and sequenced the bass line because I was playing keys, or something like that, and finally songs I played but had no sequences. In the case where there were multiple songs by one artist, we picked the easiest one to get off the ground and pushed of others til later (which is where the last batch of songs came from). Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Sweet. That's how you get maximum value out of a workstation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 So many great and hard enough to play songs would require me to get a lot of midis from the web, and practice/chord extract quite a few man-weeks, for sure. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opdigits Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Isn't Dan just the most useful guy to have in a band? Keys, sax, bass, guitar, sax, vocals - and he's his own tech and sound engineer. Cheers, Mike. Don't forget videographer and booking agent! Nobody told me there'd be days like these... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Just curious: no need for an expression/volume pedal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Just curious: no need for an expression/volume pedal? I didn't show it because it would be separate from the snake. I'll likely have one plugged into the Kronos for top tier parts. Though since sequences will be running, i could just automate any swells. It's not like there's going to be any hammond stuff with this group of songs. I'll start with it and evaluate how much I'm using it. So far I don't use it on a single song. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Thanks, I'd forgotten you're running sequences so can automate stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Set list please. Subject to Change.... A-Ha - Take On Me Billy Idol - Dancing With Myself Cure, The - Just Like Heaven Devo - Whip It Duran Duran - Rio INXS - Never Tear us Apart Loverboy - Workin' For The Weekend Men Without Hats - Safety Dance Modern English - I Melt With You New Order - Bizzare Love Triangle Pseudo Echo - Funky Town R.E.M. - End of the World Rick Springfield - Jessie's Girl Romantics, The - What I Like About You Simple Minds - Don't You Forget About Me Soft Cell - Tainted Love Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut Thomas Dolby - She Blinded Me With Science Tommy Tutone - 867-5309/Jenny Vapors, The - Turning Japanese A Flock of Seagulls - I Ran After the Fire - Der Kommisar Bangles, The - Walk Like an Egyptian Billy Idol - Rebel Yell Buggles, The - Video Killed The Radio Star Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus Dexy's Midnight Runners - Come On Eileen Erasure - Chains of Love Escape Club, The - Wild Wild West Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams Hall & Oats - Private Eyes Human League - Don't You Want Me Information Society - What's On Your Mind Kim Wilde - Kids in America Prince - 1999 Roxette - The Look Tears for Fears - Head Over Heals Thompson Twins - Hold Me Now U2 - Desire When in Rome - The Promise Beastie Boys - Fight for Your Right Billy Squire - Everybody Wants You Bon Jovi - You Give Love A Bad Name Bryan Adams - Summer Of 69 Cars, The - Just What I Needed Clash, The - Rock the Casbah Dead or Alive - You Spin Me George Michael - Faith Greg Kihn Band - Breakup Song INXS - New Sensation J Geils Band - Centerfold Kenny Logins - Footloose Knack. The - My Sharona Morris Day and the Time - Jungle Love Outfield, The - Your Love Pat Benatar - Hit Me With Your Best Shot Poison - Talk Dirty To Me Spandeau Ballet - True Van Halen - Jump After we're out playing... Billy Idol - Eyes Without a Face Clash, The - Should I stay or Should I GO Cure, The - Love Song Duran Duran - Hungry Like the Wolf Hall & Oats - You Make My Dreams INXS - Don't Change Loverboy - The Kid is Hot Tonight Prince - Let's Go Crazy Stray Cats - Rock this Town U2 - With or Without You Cars, The - You Might Think Billy Idol - Mony Mony Duran Duran - Is there Something I should Know Much of the list is based on stuff we already did back in the 90s or that I've done with subsequent 80s bands in order to get things off the ground quickly. Once we're up and running, I'm sure we'll drop a bunch as we fine tune things and add other songs. The order basically starts with songs that I have sequences for from back in the day that just need tweaked for the Kronos/patches written, next would be songs I have partial sequences - meaning maybe I played with a band with a drummer and sequenced the bass line because I was playing keys, or something like that, and finally songs I played but had no sequences. In the case where there were multiple songs by one artist, we picked the easiest one to get off the ground and pushed of others til later (which is where the last batch of songs came from). Wwaahh! , I can't see "Dancing until midnight" by Pseudo Echo . Brett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky2 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Set list please. Subject to Change.... A-Ha - Take On Me Billy Idol - Dancing With Myself Cure, The - Just Like Heaven Devo - Whip It Duran Duran - Rio................ Wow Dan, great choices. I played 95% of these when they were topping the charts. Sure makes me feel old! Mark "Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64 Life is shorter than you think...make it count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Graul Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Dan, Maybe I missed this, but are you playing guitar or keys in this duo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Dan, Maybe I missed this, but are you playing guitar or keys in this duo? I'm playing Keys, Bass, and Sax....the other guy is playing guitar. Basically, I'll play keys unless it's a song with no keys, then I'll play bass. The exception may be if there's just a small lame background keys part and a cool bass line, I'll opt for bass. We're trying to split lead vocals close to 50/50, of course also singing each other's backups. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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