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A tale of customer service


wraub

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Story on TB

 

Interesting story re: a high-end luthier, an apparently problematic instrument, a disgruntled owner, and a surly community subset. With pics/video.

 

Worth a read. Plan some time for it.

 

No affiliation either way with me. Just an observer...

 

I'm a lot more like I am now than I was when I got here.

 

 

 

 

 

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Whoa. That's a sad story. While having no way of verifying any of it (though the OP seems sincere and has a lot of documentation), whatever happened to the idea that the "customer is always right?" These sorts of stories can have very long "tails" in the Internet age...
"Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy
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Buying a $5,000 bass sight unseen -- who does that?

 

Caveat emptor.

 

I've been checking out that thread for the better part of the day. A $5,000 bass from a seemingly reputable boutique luthier should come with better assurances of quality and customer service than a dismissive stance like "buyer beware". Especially when you're talking a lefty player, who given the nature of the industry would have to order almost EVERY instrument above a certain dollar amount as a custom order.

 

Pre-internet something like this would have just flown in under the radar. In this age of internet forums, social media and email this is beyond any acceptable standards. A business can be accountable to their customers for sub-par products and poor customer service. Props to Addison for putting together a well documented case and presenting it for public consideration.

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"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."

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Buying a $5,000 bass sight unseen -- who does that?

 

Caveat emptor.

 

Yeah I've been following this on talkbass. The poster took a chance based on the strong reputation of the builder, good reviews of his basses, and after talking to the builder who assured him that it had only minor wear from being played a little.

 

I don't know what the heck was going through the builder's head to pull this stuff and refuse to offer a refund unless he could get one of his distributors to sell the bass to another person. In one act of misjudgment he has apparently severely damaged his reputation as a builder to be trusted in turning out superior instruments. At least from the feedback I've read throughout the thread.

 

I really hope all this works out and the builder does right by this guy.

Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it.

http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband

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Thanks for that update wraub.

 

I agree with some of the posters there on TB.

- Yes there are two sides to every story

- I don't really know how much his reply helped but it did seem like "shaming" him worked.

- The length of time wasn't all that great.

 

That said, even if the photography was suspect, there seems to be serious issues with an instrument that cost $5000 that go beyond just wear from a bit of playing. "Lay-a-way" on a $5700 bass? That's weird. The body shaping looked pretty jacked up too, as somebody said like a high school woodworking project.

 

In looking at the pictures, I got the feeling that perhaps the builders and company were experiencing "hard times", either with money or perhaps personally.

 

I'd rather have a couple of really nice basses, some amps and leftover cash rather than one for that much dough.

 

If you think my playing is bad, you should hear me sing!
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I have a Mike Lull M4V. It's a fantastic bass. I can't dream of trading it in for something else.

Zon basses are also great basses.

 

Why would you sell a Lull M5V and a Zon 5 string to get something else?

 

I did sell my Zon 6 and I bought a Carvin 6 AND a Fernandes P-bass clone. Now that was a good deal!.

 

I have bought a few basses from MusiciansFiend. They have a great return policy.

 

Mike Lull built my bass for me after several discussions and when it was done I picked it up at his shop. That's how to buy an expensive bass.

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My first thought was that it had to be a knockoff since I've seen better craftsmanship from Rondo.

 

My second thought was that if I ever have the means I will stick with Lull or Nordstrand or Sadowsky.

Push the button Frank.
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Mike Lull built my bass for me after several discussions and when it was done I picked it up at his shop. That's how to buy an expensive bass.

 

Yup.

 

Let's review -- the fault may lie somewhere in between, but a boutique bass builder's reputation has been severely damaged, a customer is stuck with a damaged bass that he may not want and would have to sell at a loss to get rid of.

 

Classic lose-lose.

"Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky"
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Addison has been a member of TB and Leftbassist for a long time and has always come across as an honest person.

 

Most left handed players buy their instruments having not had the opprotunity to actually handle and play them beforehand (of the 12 I own I played 3 three of them before purchase). So most of us take a chance when we buy an instrument and try to mitigate that risk as best we can.

 

Addison obviously felt that buying an instrument directly from a well-known boutique builder with many well known professional customers was a safe bet and I do not see that as an unreasonable decision. His error was that because of AC's reputation and price he did not use as much due diligence before the purchase as he should have.

 

All that being said, the instrument he recieved and AC's response to his complaints and overall handling of the situation was deplorable. His public response worsened the damage to his credibility and the reputation of his company and serves as a very good example of how NOT to conduct business in the social media age.

 

I am glad that Addison will be getting his money refunded to him and put this whole sad experience behind him.

Nothing is as it seems but everything is exactly what it is - B. Banzai

 

Life is what happens while you are busy playing in bands.

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I'm going to stay with my first answer: caveat emptor.

 

I don't think I could ever buy anything sight unseen for $5K with no return/refund available -- that's just a little nuts.

"Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky"
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Jimmy's response was welcome, but the tone did come across as both evasive and accusatory. What I did take from that is that he's prepared to take the instrument back and give a refund to the buyer.

 

All of that being said, there were some glaring facts that came to light over the course of the thread. One being that the instrument was offered as a "FINAL SALE", with no possibility of a refund. REALLY? On a $5,000 bass straight from the builder?

 

Roger Sadowsky, who I would feel comfortable saying has an equal or greater level of esteem in the boutique bass world, offers a 10 day trial period for his instruments. If something isn't right about your bass you can send it back. Why a builder of similar repute would not feel comfortable with that sort of return policy is almost startling. Especially considering the dollar ammounts being charged for those basses.

 

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"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."

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be fair, though. he had a rationale for why it was final sale, being to protect the people who commission instruments and wait months for them to be built. now, that may or may not be a really lame way of handling customer support for a demo/as-is instrument, but the terms of the purchase were clear to both parties from the beginning.
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I think it is absolutely fair. I've actually bought a NAMM show demo bass before.

 

My Modulus Prime 6 was shown at the winter NAMM show in 1994. It was basically a one of a kind instrument, and my dealer explained that I could only get it as-is. However, it came to me in nearly immaculate condition. The finish was in excellent shape. The only defects I found were some smudges in the gold finish of the kahler brige. And those were purely cosmetic.

 

This case seems a bit more complicated. The price that A-C wanted for the bass should come with a certain level of customer service. Frankly, I think that A-C should have photographed the bass as exhaustively as the buyer did in order to document it's condition prior to the sale. A demo bass that sells for $5K should be well documented. Especially since it's so easy to take digital photos. And if you're going to place a condition on a deal like a final sale, you have an obligation to exercise full disclosure.

 

Is there the possibility that we aren't privy to all of the exchanges between the buyer and Jimmy? Absolutely. But the way the final sale conditions come across to an outsider, it gives the appearance that Jimmy felt the need to protect himself of had something to hide.

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"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."

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That thread is the epitome of internet douchebaggery, and frankly, I would have expected a bit more from TB. They are usually a pretty tight knit community, and they really try to help each other, but the number of posts that are tangential, anecdotal, unsubstantiated, and downright trolling or irrelevant is at reddit levels, and with the offers to "take action", it nearly hit 4chan level.

 

I don't doubt the OP's sincerity and frustration...this has happened to me numerous times, and I've had to escalate to the the public before as well. But there are always two sides to a story, and this thread insured a defensive response (if any) from the luthier.

 

I hope the takeaway for OUR community is to have a measured response. Support without antagonism...that's TRUE consumer activism when details are limited.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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I am glad that Addison will be getting his money refunded to him and put this whole sad experience behind him.

 

Dude, you could at least say "SPOILER ALERT" before posting something like this ;)

 

That thread is the epitome of internet douchebaggery, and frankly, I would have expected a bit more from TB.

 

Hmm, true. I found myself rather quickly at page 22 (or thereabouts) by simply skimming over most replies. A lot of them had absolutely nothing of value to offer with regards to the thread.

 

I hope the takeaway for OUR community is to have a measured response. Support without antagonism...that's TRUE consumer activism when details are limited.

 

I think the LDLD brethren, though our numbers may have declined over the years, simply are more mature. Though we definitely don't always show it :)

 

Off to read the rest of the thread (although I know the outcome now :rolleyes:;) :grin: )

"I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes

 

The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour

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That thread is the epitome of internet douchebaggery, and frankly, I would have expected a bit more from TB. They are usually a pretty tight knit community, and they really try to help each other, but the number of posts that are tangential, anecdotal, unsubstantiated, and downright trolling or irrelevant is at reddit levels, and with the offers to "take action", it nearly hit 4chan level..

 

Without a doubt, it got ugly. There's no excuse for threatening emails. But some people feel compelled to be Internet tough guys.

 

Did it escalate to Reddit / Yelp / Amy's Bakery levels? Not quite. That incident was at the height of Internet ugliness. And I think it brought to light how a complaint against a business can effectively go viral.

 

As for what really happened? There are three sides to that story: Addison's story, Jimmy's story, and what really happened. At this point I think it's in both of their interests for a refund to be issued and for them both to move on. Beyond that, I think this serves as a great example of what to not do in the course of a custom bass build and/or purchase.

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"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."

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Right on. And I'm still a little surprised at the cat's sale of the other two high end basses to finance this purchase. How much better than the other duo could the new one be????

Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse.

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That thread is the epitome of internet douchebaggery, and frankly, I would have expected a bit more from TB. They are usually a pretty tight knit community, and they really try to help each other, but the number of posts that are tangential, anecdotal, unsubstantiated, and downright trolling or irrelevant is at reddit levels, and with the offers to "take action", it nearly hit 4chan leve

 

I think this comes from the massive amount of publicity the thread got, everyone and their aunt feel like they can take a stab, aka the angry mob effect.

 

As a result of the thread, I for one will openly declare that I will not ever commission a bass from A-C, and I've got the bank statement to back that up! :D

 

-P

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That thread is the epitome of internet douchebaggery, and frankly, I would have expected a bit more from TB.

 

Then you must not have hung out there much -- it's a douchebag factory.

"Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky"
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The price that A-C wanted for the bass should come with a certain level of customer service. Frankly, I think that A-C should have photographed the bass as exhaustively as the buyer did in order to document it's condition prior to the sale. A demo bass that sells for $5K should be well documented. Especially since it's so easy to take digital photos.

 

understood. and for the most part i agree. i would be disappointed with the level of service provided at that purchase price, as-is/final sale or not.

 

that said, i still think the buyer made a decision to buy that i personally would not, and that i consider irresponsible. this certainly does not mean he deserves a poor outcome, but it does mean that the righteous indignation rings more than a little bit hollow.

 

yes, A-C should have taken meticulous photographs of the instrument. at the same time, i would have demanded them before buying a $500 bass, let alone a $5,000 bass. that the buyer failed to do so indicates a highly flawed process on his part, too.

 

A-C is in the wrong here, but that doesn't mean the buyer is in the right.

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