Les Paul vs. everything else

[Ironhorse]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not a guitar player, but I like guitar music - especially bands with 2 lead guitarists (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Outlaws, Thin Lizzy, Screamin' Cheetah Wheelies, etc.)

 

In each of these bands, it seems one guy's playing a Les Paul, and the other is playing something else.

 

Thing is, it also seems that in each scenario, the Les Paul gives a fatter, nastier sound than whatever the other guy is playing. Is it just my imagination?

[J. Dan]

I'd call that an overgeneralization. It had humbucker pickups while strats (the other at least if not more common guitar) generally had single coils. You can do either picku or combination on either or any combination on other guitars.

 

Of course the other half is the amp.

[Dannyalcatraz]

And the other other half is the effects.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Les Pauls do tend to have a big, fat, warm, thick tone, clean or dirty. It's their forte; their design, construction, materials, components, and shorter scale-length all contribute to this. I wanted a big, fat Les Paul tone, so- I got a couple of Les Pauls!

 

You CAN get fat, round tones out of other guitars, single-coil equipped Strats and Teles and Danelectros definitely included, but a Les Paul or a similar enough axe like an ES-335 or Flying V, etc. is a no-brainer go-to guitar for fat fullness.

 

Michael Bloomfield and Eric Clapton made seminal Blues-Rock tones when they switched to humbucker-equipped Les Pauls. While Clapton made good use of pairing his sunburst with a Marshall combo at that time, I believe that Bloomfield used fender amps. Peter Green got some fat Les Paul tones with a Fender Twin, too.

 

Dickie Betts felt that two Les Pauls blended very well together for dual harmony-leads, but that a Strat and a Les Paul didn't. I don't know as I completely agree 100%, but you'd have to admit that the man knew a good bit about the topic...

 

Jennifer Turner (great player, look 'er up) once said in an interview in Guitar Player magazine that "Playing a Les Paul is like coloring with big, fat Crayola markers!"

 

[Larryz]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not a guitar player, but I like guitar music - especially bands with 2 lead guitarists (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Outlaws, Thin Lizzy, Screamin' Cheetah Wheelies, etc.)

 

In each of these bands, it seems one guy's playing a Les Paul, and the other is playing something else.

 

 

Welcome aboard Ironhorse...Just goes to show 50% of guitar players prefer playing something else...LOL!

[Bartholomew]

I use a Les Paul in one of my groups, the other player uses a Fender - which I also have but prefer the contrast between the 2 sounds on live gigs and because I do most of the lead-work.

 

The Les Paul is also my preference when playing trio plus a singer due to that thicker sound. When recording it makes no difference to me as the producer and engineer decide who gets what sound in most of the sessions I've done and can thicken my telecaster to the point where nobody knows what it is.

 

A good example of a Fender telecaster sounding like a hairy Gibson would be Jimmy Page on the first Lead Zep album when he was also using a Supro guitar amp with probably a 6x9 speaker.

 

Wish I still had my Supro bought for $160 and sold before the days of heavy rock. Page caused a run on the pawn shops and the older ones are nowhere to be found.

 

 

[hurricane hugo]

as far as I'm concerned, "everything else" wins.

[Caevan O’Shite]

When recording it makes no difference to me as the producer and engineer decide who gets what sound in most of the sessions I've done and can thicken my telecaster to the point where nobody knows what it is.

 

A good example of a Fender telecaster sounding like a hairy Gibson would be Jimmy Page on the first Lead Zep album when he was also using a Supro guitar amp with probably a 6x9 speaker.

 

Good call. Page may have used a fuzz pedal on some of those tracks, as well; regardless, he got a fat tone by cranking the amp to the point of overdriving the amp's output-section and speaker, and remarked in interviews that he could make a tele or other guitar sound a lot like a Les Paul when recording. Notre that he still preferred the Les Paul for most of his live concert playing, though...

 

Wish I still had my Supro bought for $160 and sold before the days of heavy rock. Page caused a run on the pawn shops and the older ones are nowhere to be found.

 

I believe that amps that are effectively "clones" of those Supros like Jimmy Page used can be bought, or DIY built... Weber makes some 6"x9" guitar speakers, too...

[Bartholomew]

That's interesting Caevan. We have a dealer in Montreal who sells new Supro amps but the prices are ridiculous.

 

At this point I have a re-capped and re-tubed 68 sf Twin that I bought new that year, a Cube 60 that I don't use on gigs as it's SS - my workbench basement amp. Plus I recently bought an Ibanez TSA15 head and cab to split the weight on gigs due to being an old fart with a bad back. Tube Screamer channel is not as good as my Boss OD pedal up front but it has pretty good cleans all the way to 10 which is what I wanted.

 

Also wanted to put my 12 inch JBL from 1971 in the cab - sounds way better than the flubby 70/80 Celestion but will make it too heavy and defeat the purpose.

 

Am off topic here, can't really justify another amp but have a birthday coming up so maybe. Played through someone's Swart on a jam session and it was really nice but again really expensive. Last thing I built was a Heathkit timing light for my car way back...too much like work.

[Scott Fraser]

Wish I still had my Supro bought for $160 and sold before the days of heavy rock. Page caused a run on the pawn shops and the older ones are nowhere to be found.

 

They show up somewhat regularly in the LA Craigslist.

[desertbluesman]

Thing is, it also seems that in each scenario, the Les Paul gives a fatter, nastier sound than whatever the other guy is playing. Is it just my imagination?

 

Nah your ears are right on the Les Paul is much fatter than any other non eq helped instrument other than other 24-3/4" scale guitars. My SG was almost as fat as my Les Paul naturally straight into the amp. Way fatter than my Ibanez RG or Fender style guitars.

 

Of course when you hear David Gilmour play his strat it has as good a tone as any Les Paul but you can bet he is effecting that Strat with some expensive EQ's and other effects to give it that sustain and tone. So in conclusion. You can get some great tones from any guitar as long as you know how to tweak them and the amp/effects

[J. Dan]

I look at it this way: no guitar or tone, including amps, effects, etc., is any better than any other. They are tools in the trade of making music. That said, it's possible to get a pretty wide range of tones out of modern guitars with modern pickup combinations, amp modeling, etc.

[Ironhorse]

I want to thank you all for your responses. While the answers do vary, it nonetheless tells me I made the right decision in asking the question in a guitar players forum. I thought this would be the kind of thing a guitar player would know best, and I think I was right in that assumption.

[CEB]

I believe if you have 2 guitars they should have contrasting tones. The only exeception is on some stuff where you sometimes harmony lead lines it is ok to use like tones.

[whitefang]

I believe if you have 2 guitars they should have contrasting tones.

 

Well, DUH!

 

What sense would it make to have two identical sounding axes? Except maybe because it's quicker to replace the guitar instead of a string during a gig?

Whitefang

[Winston Psmith]

I believe if you have 2 guitars they should have contrasting tones.

 

Well, DUH!

 

What sense would it make to have two identical sounding axes? Except maybe because it's quicker to replace the guitar instead of a string during a gig?

Whitefang

 

You could be going for LOUD and LOUDER, for example. . . .

[Dannyalcatraz]

Or radically different effects chains & amps...

[J. Dan]

Well, DUH!

 

What sense would it make to have two identical sounding axes?

 

Red and black?

Sunburst and natural?

SG and Flying V?

Whammy bar and no whammy bar?

[Larryz]

I believe if you have 2 guitars they should have contrasting tones.

 

Well, DUH!

 

What sense would it make to have two identical sounding axes? Except maybe because it's quicker to replace the guitar instead of a string during a gig?

Whitefang

 

One in Standard tuning and the other in an Altered tuning...

[skipclone 1]

One person playing two handed tapping.

[pinkjimiphoton]

well, after spanking the plank since 69, i must say that i cut my teeth on les pauls and telecasters, and 900% of the time live i sling a strat, and can make it as phat as any les paul i've ever played.

 

that said, the main reasons i DON'T sling a les paul anymore live (not true, i do from time to time if the spirit moves me or it's close to the door when i leave for a show)

it weighs too much

it CANNOT produce the "bell tones" of a fender

(tho if ya change the tone controls to treble and bass cut, you can get close)

they play TOO good. i want a guitar to fight me back a little.

my current les paul is a ltd version of the epi deluxe, with a quilted top in grey sunburst. it is the nicest paul i ever played, including my old custom shop showcase edition les paul super custom i had in the late 80's. (was sweet, double bound everywhere, ebony fingerboard, emg's, in a metallic pink i believe they called martian sunset)...

 

the current one was set up by djm when i bought it. they set it up TOO GODDAMN GOOD. it plays too easy.

 

while i realize i can adjust the slinkyness and raise the action, i don't want to... even tho for me it's almost unusable, it just plays so goddamn nice i can't even think about changing it.

[Caevan O’Shite]

well, after spanking the plank since 69, i must say that i cut my teeth on les pauls and telecasters, and 900% of the time live i sling a strat, and can make it as phat as any les paul i've ever played.

 

that said, the main reasons i DON'T sling a les paul anymore live (not true, i do from time to time if the spirit moves me or it's close to the door when i leave for a show)

it weighs too much

it CANNOT produce the "bell tones" of a fender

(tho if ya change the tone controls to treble and bass cut, you can get close)

they play TOO good. i want a guitar to fight me back a little.

my current les paul is a ltd version of the epi deluxe, with a quilted top in grey sunburst. it is the nicest paul i ever played, including my old custom shop showcase edition les paul super custom i had in the late 80's. (was sweet, double bound everywhere, ebony fingerboard, emg's, in a metallic pink i believe they called martian sunset)...

 

the current one was set up by djm when i bought it. they set it up TOO GODDAMN GOOD. it plays too easy.

 

while i realize i can adjust the slinkyness and raise the action, i don't want to... even tho for me it's almost unusable, it just plays so goddamn nice i can't even think about changing it.

 

 

I can get a vaguely Strat neck-pickup kinda sorta tone from my Les Paul due to the fact that the mounting-bezel for its neck-pickup happened to be too straight/flat/shallow, so that the slug-coil is considerably further away from the strings than the screw-coil, giving an almost split-coil kind of a tone. This also enhances the middle-position setting with both pickups on, where I blend 'em with their volume-knobs to taste.

 

I tried to compensate by bending the pickup's bracket to raise the slug-coil closer to the strings, only to discover that I MUCH preferred the tone the way it was! so I put it back to its incorrect but original/stock state.

 

Running .011" - .049" strings on a Les Paul or similar axe helps a LOT, in my humble opinion, as does just a little higher action and a smidgen more relief than many would have a Les Paul set-up for. I also prefer D R "Pure Blues" solid/pure-nickel wound string sets.

 

With a little "English" on my touch and picking-location, I was able to get some very convincing Tele shootin' sparks tones out of my Les Paul Gem series "Ruby" with P-90 "soap-bar" single-coils; but fat city was always right there on tap, as well!

[picker]

I wonder if I'll get any agreement to the idea that a Les Paul tends to make you play a certain way. Between the generally poor access to the upper octave and the basic overall sound of the instrument itself, I think the average player will end up playing and sounding a certain way on it. A lot of the things that work on a Les Paul don't sound at all good on a Strat or Tele, and vice versa. Or at least, not to my ear anyway.

[J. Dan]

While not a Les Paul, I consider my Explorer to be a very close relative. Mine is an Epiphone with Korina body. That said, I replaced my neck pickup and added a pull-switch to the pot to split the coil. In that configuration (single coil at the neck) i can get very bell-like strat style tones. But it still plays and feels much different than a strat.

[pinkjimiphoton]

@picker... absolutely. you play different on both. on les pauls, i tend to play really really fast and go for the big power chords much more than i do on a strat...strats i tend to be more melodic, cuz you have to kinda breathe more... you don't have that 16 second sustain to get you thru, and legato playing seems a lot easier.

@ caev... yep, indeed... can make a huge difference. something i tried on one of my guitars was removing one of the pairs of alnico magnets on my neck bucker. the theory is that with only one magnet, you effectively have a single coil that's humbucking, and it does indeed seem to work a bit. i've tried it with cheap buckers, and with a couple cheap p90 types... don't waste a good p'up, but if ya have some junk lieing around you may find it neat.

 

@dan, if you can, consider making that pickup splitter a series/parallel switch instead.. that way you have stock humbucker or single coil sound, but still humbucking. kinda like a cross between a p90 and a strat single coil... some chime, some bell, and a bit more ass without the noise or signal loss.

 

rock ON!

[Bluesape]

Let's put it this way: If I show up for a gig without my "white" guitar(LP Studio), I can expect to be berated for not bringing it. While other HH Gibson guitars I own can fill its shoes nicely, the band is convinced the LP sounds best. I always bring a SC axe to a gig as well, as some of the Jimi and SRV stuff deserves a Strat, or a Freeway, or even a Tele. This Friday, I'll bring the LP and likely the blue Strat. Tight stage, so the V stays home.

 

And yes, Picker is right: LP's are not as recklessly playable as Strats, not as fling-able, not as ergonomically correct. The LP shape forces you to hold the guitar a certain way, as does a V, or a Tele for that matter. Those wonderful body contours on Strats make them easy to move with.

[Larryz]

Gotta keep the band happy...if you don't bring that white LP, they'll put the bad juju on you LOL! +1 on packing the blue Strat just in case...

[Winston Psmith]

I wonder if I'll get any agreement to the idea that a Les Paul tends to make you play a certain way. Between the generally poor access to the upper octave and the basic overall sound of the instrument itself, I think the average player will end up playing and sounding a certain way on it. A lot of the things that work on a Les Paul don't sound at all good on a Strat or Tele, and vice versa. Or at least, not to my ear anyway.

 

Yeah, Picker, I'll take you up on this one, too. IME, HB's roar and SC's scream, with very few exceptions. Hendrix could make a Strat roar, but he was one of a kind. Like Jimi Photon says, you don't get that sustain out of a Strat, the way you do with a Les Paul. OTOH, you don't have the easy neck access on the LP that you get with the Strat, and I've seen a lot of older players retiring their LP's for something less prone to neck and shoulder strain. Could be part of the drive behind all those chambered LP's.

 

I've always loved the mass of the LP's - it really feels like you've got a hold of something - but I prefer the SG for speed, with all that neck. I've always liked the Strat necks, too, but never got a feel for the rest of the guitar.

 

What some players may not realize is that if you're buying any Gibson solidbody guitar within a certain price range, you're getting the same set of HB's in nearly every model of guitar, usually the 490 or 498 series pups. This means you're only going to get so much variation in tone between models, especially with the thinner-bodied mahogany planks, the SG's, Explorers, Flying V's and LP Specials.

[SEHpicker]

My main gigging guitar is an LP Standard. But I also bring along a Strat for songs like Sultans of Swing, etc. Just can't get that "quack" out of a LP.

[5 string Mike]

 

...

 

Of course when you hear David Gilmour play his strat it has as good a tone as any Les Paul but you can bet he is effecting that Strat with some expensive EQ's and other effects to give it that sustain and tone. So in conclusion. You can get some great tones from any guitar as long as you know how to tweak them and the amp/effects

 

One thing to remember with Gilmour is he isn't running your average Strats. His red Strats he ran in the '80s' were running some active EMGs and the famous Black Strat has had a host of pickup combinations in it over it's lifetime plus some custom wiring.

 

At least to me, it's it seems that his guitars are set up quite a bit different that your average strat, so that likely has more to do with the guitars themselves.