Which hand piano, which hand organ?

[Dr88s]

I'm new to playing two keyboards simultaneously. Many of my band's songs call for piano and organ at the same time. My left/right independence is not what it should be. I'm much more dexterous with my right and so I tend to play organ melodies and fills with my right while playing chords/comping on piano in my left.

 

When I watch my favourite organ players (Benmont Tench, Rami Jafee) playing both they are usually playing organ with the left hand and piano with the right. Is there any good technical reason for this other than personal preference? Should I try to train myself otherwise?

 

 

 

[HAMEGZ]

are you playing two boards stacked or one 61/73/88 board split?

 

I can only speak for myself, because the type and style the band plays my LH is holding organ " pads" my RH playing 6/8 or rhythm

parts , licks and the like. For solo voicing either piano or organ ill switch to both hands on the relevant instrument .

 

I am Left Handed , btw.

 

[CEB]

Depends on a couple of things.

 

1) The material - What do you use to cover bass lines, which instrument is you primary solo voice etc....

 

2) The physical instruments and you as the player - Are you actually playing a piano and organ or are you stacking slabs on a stand. If they are stacked then you can interchange hands how you want. Generally I find it more comfortable for the left to be on the bottom but left can be on top. If playing a real organ I set the organ to the right.

 

In my case the digital piano is my main bass voice. If playing basslines I play bass guitar voices from my stage piano ( while the bassist plays acoustic guitar or when I played in bands without a bassist). It depends on the material and the player. If playing slabs I set the stage piano on the bottom. I'm primarily a pianist that plays organ. I don't think of myself as an organist.

 

 

[TrapperJack]

No rules here. (Except, perhaps, go to work on that hand independence.)

 

Let the music decide for you. Which part is more demanding? What registers is each part in? What changes in hand position will the parts take you through? What drawbars do you have to change, and when?

 

Lots of stuff like this will help you work it out.

 

Seriously, go to work on the hand independence. In a few months you will notice the difference, and in two years you will be positively proud of yourself. (And if hand independence is an issue, there will be other little lumps and bumps that need attention, too, if I'm not surprised.)

[CEB]

If you want to solo on piano and play organ chords shove in the bottom drawbars to get voicings more friendly for left handed sustained chords.

[HAMEGZ]

If you want to solo on piano and play organ chords shove in the bottom drawbars to get voicings more friendly for left handed sustained chords.

 

plus maybe use the octave transpose so your LH can stay at a comfortable stance and feel ..

[CEB]

Oh yeah, clones do that. LOL

[HAMEGZ]

Oh yeah, clones do that. LOL

 

you know , we ASSUMED he wasn't playing a Hammond with some piano

sitting on top..

 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/$%28KGrHqFHJFQFGuOze9S7BRz,gI47YQ~~48_2.JPG

[David Loving]

Do what Joe Zawinul did and set up one keyboard with bass treble reversed - highest note to the left, lowest to the right. That board on top, a piano underneath.

 

Just kidding

 

Just do what ever is comfortable.

[opdigits]

No rules here. (Except, perhaps, go to work on that hand independence.)

 

Let the music decide for you. Which part is more demanding? What registers is each part in? What changes in hand position will the parts take you through? What drawbars do you have to change, and when?

 

Lots of stuff like this will help you work it out.

This.

[J. Dan]

I USUALLY have organ on top, piano on bottom because the sliders for the drawbars are on top and the bottom is 76 key, but depending on the song, I'll switch it up.

 

Likewise, which hand plays what depends on the song. Usually the more prominent or busier part is RH. Sometimes I switch up within a song.

 

Goodbye stranger, I play EP on top and when the organ comes in, I keep EP with RH and play the organ on the lower tier with LH. Smokin, top tier organ, lower tier harpsi-clav with LH while organ stays RH. Somebody's Baby is a mix due to splits and layers I have set up. Verses: piano on bottom both hands except the little 5 note organ melody at the end the end of each line is RH on top. Chorus: RH pinky holds an organ note while the rest of my RH plays the piano/synth layer on the lower tier, while left hand plays organ chords on the top tier.

 

It all comes down to how you can squeeze as many of the parts in as possible in a logical way and comfortably. Often I spend more time planning all that out and setting up the splits/layers, and patches than actually learning the song.

[Dr88s]

Wow! Love the attention I get around here on this forum. A sincere thanks to all of you.

 

I guess you are all echoing what I already did for comfort.

 

I play stacked boards; a VR-09 on top for organ (I won't call it a clonewheel lest I upset the purists ) and a 73 key korg m50 on the bottom for acoustic pianos, EPs, and some synths.

 

In retrospect, even when I was using only one keyboard with a split, I always have the tendency to put the busier part in my right hand because of the better dexterity regardless of instrument type. On more organ pad-y songs the organ goes in the left hand. On more solo-y songs in the right.

 

I am much more comfortable playing with the right hand on the top board, but I should get used to switching up periodically.

 

Now, onto the L/R independence... I presume that I can search the forum here for some discussions on practice techniques to better develop this?

[J. Dan]

Now, onto the L/R independence... I presume that I can search the forum here for some discussions on practice techniques to better develop this?

 

Get yourself a pack of chewing gum. Take out a piece and start chewing it. Now go for a walk.

 

Seriously, just practice and repetition. I start very slow and get it nailed down in my brain exactly where each not lands with respect to the others and when I can do it, I try to work it up to speed. Then repetition, repetition, repetition, until you don't even have to think about it any more.

[Polkahero]

I play rhythmic piano parts with my RH on my Alesis QS8 while playing sustained organ chords with my LH on my Hammond SK1 which sits on top of the Alesis. I shift the SK1 one octave up so I don't have to cross over too far without changing my usual 888800000 registration. What's tricky for me right now is manipulating the swell (volume) for the organ and the sustain for the piano at the same time!

[CEB]

...

Now, onto the L/R independence... I presume that I can search the forum here for some discussions on practice techniques to better develop this?

 

http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Inventions-Masterworks/dp/0739036971

[Dr88s]

 

Seriously, just practice and repetition. I start very slow and get it nailed down in my brain exactly where each not lands with respect to the others and when I can do it, I try to work it up to speed. Then repetition, repetition, repetition, until you don't even have to think about it any more.

 

Essentially what I've been doing with eventual success. I just figured that with better independence this would just come more quickly and naturally, without the need for as many repetitions and metronome.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Inventions-Masterworks/dp/0739036971

 

I used to play two part inventions when I was learning piano many eons ago. In retrospect this is a great idea. Thanks; I will dig through my old books.

[uncledunc]

...What's tricky for me right now is manipulating the swell (volume) for the organ and the sustain for the piano at the same time!

 

Left-footed swell pedal, right-footed sustain pedal, with a leslie fast/slow switch thrown in. Mine's to the right of the sustain pedal. I used to have one jerry-rigged to the Morley volume pedal I used to use. I would kick the switch with the ball of my foot to toggle between fast and slow.

[Dave Weiser]

 

I generally switch it up depending on which part is more challenging and then I program my presets and splits accordingly, per song.

 

With the two boards you listed I think you do have some flexibility in the cases where the busier part might be piano (the bottom board). Depending on the song, you can create a few presets to toggle between.

 

Create an M50 preset for when you need to play chords, and another one transposed up for when you need to play piano leads. Same for the organ - you can create some presets optimized for playing chords and others in the right octaves for playing lead.

 

Regarding L/R independence... I can still hear my mom (parents were both music teachers) when I was a kid threatening to withhold dessert or playing-outside-after-dinner privileges if I didn't submit to the "thou shalt practice it hands-separate first!!!" commandment. It's a pain but it works.

 

Also, I've always gotten good results from playing along with recordings of songs that I need to learn.

 

Good luck!

 

[Bobadohshe]

I used to play two part inventions when I was learning piano many eons ago. In retrospect this is a great idea. Thanks; I will dig through my old books.

 

Almost anytime you need to tighten up some technical skill or work on touch or give your playing some depth, digging in on some classical will do wonders.

[David Loving]

+1 It transfers over to everything else you're playing

[Dr88s]

I can't tell you how many times I have called up my folks just to thank them for sticking with my classical piano lessons even though I was a stubborn kid who never liked to practice.

 

I don't play classical at all anymore but I am keenly aware that my entire basis in keyboards and music in general is deeply rooted in those lessons.

[Dr88s]

With the two boards you listed I think you do have some flexibility in the cases where the busier part might be piano (the bottom board). Depending on the song, you can create a few presets to toggle between.

 

Create an M50 preset for when you need to play chords, and another one transposed up for when you need to play piano leads. Same for the organ - you can create some presets optimized for playing chords and others in the right octaves for playing lead.

 

Dave,

 

Thanks for this. Could you expand on this a little?

 

Would the point of transposing differently for chords or leads be to keep my hand position on the board in a uniform area between songs? One of the advantages of the 73 keys is that I never find myself reaching for the octave shift button. With the right hand on the top board, it isn't difficult or un-ergonomic to move the left hand to the higher registers of the m50...

 

Or am I missing some other reason for your suggestion?

[Joe P]

Dr88s,

 

I think Dave is just saying to put the tones where you need them so your hands don't get crossed up and you are comfortable.

 

For example, we play Ramblin' Man. During the jam at the end, I am comping on piano with my right hand (lower board RD700) and laying organ pad with my left hand (upper board NE2). I have a preset on the NE2 for this which is octave shifted up as far as it can go so even though I am in the lower end of the keyboard I'm producing a high sound.

 

I use that preset a lot, it really comes in handy.

 

Regards,

Joe

[Dr88s]

For example, we play Ramblin' Man. During the jam at the end, I am comping on piano with my right hand (lower board RD700) and laying organ pad with my left hand (upper board NE2). I have a preset on the NE2 for this which is octave shifted up as far as it can go so even though I am in the lower end of the keyboard I'm producing a high sound.

Joe

 

Joe,

 

Thanks. That's what I figured.

 

I am scared to do it though. I kind of like knowing where along my keyboard a particular octave is. By shifting I'm afraid that if I ever find myself winging it and accidentally select one of those shifted presets I will be in the wrong sonic ballpark. Embarrassing. I have accidentally hit the octave shift keys during a band rehearsal without knowing it and suddenly wondered what the heck was going on with my playing...

[CEB]

 

http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Inventions-Masterworks/dp/0739036971

 

I used to play two part inventions when I was learning piano many eons ago. In retrospect this is a great idea. Thanks; I will dig through my old books.

 

It helps if you like Bach. I like Bach a whole lot. If you don't like Bach then you are probably better off doing things you like. But Inventions just immediately popped into my head when I read your post.

 

Fess is really good stuff. The licks are not super difficult but the polyrhythms are a challenge if you aint used to those sort of seperated timings. Maybe listen to some Professor Longhair if Bach don't trip your trigger.

 

To me it seems as much or more of a mind thing as a finger dexterity thing provided you can play things like challenging right and left hands lines in unison.

 

 

[Outkaster]

Left on organ unless it's a solo. It speaks to playing right hand parts with left hand. Generally the piano parts are very specific on older songs so the organ is more of a base in some cases. The piano part that most people here is the right hand part. All the top guys I see do it this way.

[Dave Weiser]

Dr88s,

 

I think Dave is just saying to put the tones where you need them so your hands don't get crossed up and you are comfortable.

 

For example, we play Ramblin' Man. During the jam at the end, I am comping on piano with my right hand (lower board RD700) and laying organ pad with my left hand (upper board NE2). I have a preset on the NE2 for this which is octave shifted up as far as it can go so even though I am in the lower end of the keyboard I'm producing a high sound.

 

I use that preset a lot, it really comes in handy.

 

Regards,

Joe

 

 

Correct - this is what I meant.

[Joe P]

I am scared to do it though. I kind of like knowing where along my keyboard a particular octave is. By shifting I'm afraid that if I ever find myself winging it and accidentally select one of those shifted presets I will be in the wrong sonic ballpark. Embarrassing.

 

That reminds me of an ELP DVD I have (Royal Albert Hall) where just before they start the opening number which is Tarkus, Emerson quickly looks behind him with an expression of pure panic to check a pre-set, or make sure he didn't forget something. That's a keyboard player for ya!

 

Being comfortable with that kind of stuff comes from experience and time behind your rig. For me, that technique allows me to make the band sound fuller and hopefully better, which is my job. Good luck!

 

Regards,

Joe

[opdigits]

I am scared to do it though. I kind of like knowing where along my keyboard a particular octave is.

Repetition through practical application definitely makes it easier both in becoming familiar with current patch settings and in knowing how to set future patches up. Your ergonomic memory will soon kick in.

[Adan]

Shifting octaves, without or without splits, can get confusing, because there is nothing intuitive about it, in fact you are deliberately setting up a counter-intuitive situation that happens to make sense for a particular song. I found that I had to do a considerable amount of practice with each setup so that it starts to become, as opdigits said, physical memory. Then, time permitting, I would review it before a show, because after about a week my memory of splits and octave shifts had disappeared.

 

In the Petty tribute band I played in for a few years, I would often change hands just to keep myself entertained. Sometimes, it just has to be a certain way. For instance, on the intro to Don't Do Me Like That, I could play the piano part with either hand but the organ licks, complete with smears, had to be the right hand. Smears have always been way better with the right hand, which is why my right hand ends up there much of the time.