VR-09 Hints and Tips

[theGman]

Thank you.

 

[Jags]

Just joined this forum as I just ordered my VR-09 and it should be here in a couple of days. I look forward to reading through this thread to gain some insight on how to best use my new toy!!

 

Thanks!!

[Bossbandbob]

Kevmo, this is me of the great things about the VR-09... There are 3 sitar waves in the PCM samples.. Wave number 225/226/227.. And i would expect that you can use these waves and the iPad editor to create a sitar sound... That said, I haven't listened to the waves so I don't know how good or bad they are.. But that is where I'd start..

Hey Craig,

I'm finally getting around to trying this. Where do I find these PCM samples? I have the IPad Editor but don't see any there.

Thanks

Bob

[brenner13]

Almost hidden on the iPad editor app:

Hit the SYNTH button at the top left

In the OSC section, press the WAVE button 7 times to get the red light next to PCM

Press the number box to make it a blue back ground

Press the number box again to open the list window

You have to press SELECT or CANCEL at the bottom right of the window to close it.

[WesG]

Which are the synth settings in the iPad editor where you affect all of the registrations (i.e change the synth data file)? Is it all of them?

 

I have been just editing with the front panel because I still want my patches to work when I download the stuff from the Axial website etc.

 

Wes

[Bossbandbob]

Thanks Brad,

Jeesh, no wonder I could not find them!

 

[brenner13]

Which are the synth settings in the iPad editor where you affect all of the registrations (i.e change the synth data file)? Is it all of them?

 

I have been just editing with the front panel because I still want my patches to work when I download the stuff from the Axial website etc.

 

Wes

 

The iPad editor can sync your editing to all three PARTIALS by pressing the three SELECT buttons at the same time.

 

If you do any deep editing with the iPad, it is highly recommended that you save your current registrations on a thumb drive and use a different thumb drive to save your deep edits. Also, one should keep a journal of which presets have been altered in a registration, because when you bring up a preset to edit, it reverts to factory settings and there is no way to tell if it has been altered and saved to a registration. I've lost many hours of programming and several killer patches because I did not realize I was overwriting previous work. You have to use different thumb drives because each preset will default to the most recent alterations and change all registrations that use that preset. Same goes for when you download the Axial sounds. It might be best to get several small capacity USB's (1GB or less) and figure out a way to file them, listing the presets that have been altered on each one.

 

Now for another wish list item...Wouldn't it be neat if you could save patch settings in the iPad editor and have a LOAD button to instantly change all the parameters of a registration in the VR09? This might be a great way to share patches through the cloud, too.

[WesG]

What do you guys mean by "deep edits"? Is that when you hit the wave button 7 times? Or is it any changes you make in the synth editor for the sound you're on...like the LFO waveform shape?

 

Your wishlist item sounds awesome, BTW. Heck, it would also be nice if we could somehow just save registration sets to the iPad. Pulling out the USB WiFi and sticking the USB key to make a backup, then switching back...is kind of stupid.

 

Another thing that would be nice would be to somehow associate VR09_*.UPG files with VRSYN*.DAT files. Even if the * in the filename was the same, that would help!

[brenner13]

I might guess that any editing done with the iPad app may be considered as "deep" as it alters the factory defaults.

 

I definitely like your ideas and certainly agree that a big update on the iPad app could help this thing function much better. Let's hope Roland is listening. Perhaps more NICE recommendations and helpful wish list items should be posted on Roland's forum page?

 

[Bossbandbob]

I have been tweaking my VR-09 organ's registrations I have made by A/B ing it with my A100 and Leslie. I got the VR-09 not exactly, but pretty darn close to the Hammond by cranking the leakage into the upper teens and keyclick in the 8-12 range on similar drawbar settings. The one thing I have found odd on the Roland's organ registration default settings however, is the slow speed. Most organ presets I have worked with so far on the VR-09 have the slow speed Tw (tweeter) at 6 and the Wf (woofer) at 9. I know the horn on real Leslie's has an adjustable pulley and there are other factors that regulate it speed, but isn't the horn on the real thing usually spinning faster than the woofer on slow as well as fast? Upon visual inspection of mine (I have no way of measuring the actual rpm's) it seems that way. BTW this Leslie is a 130 that I souped up by adding a 122 top, crossover, (I just have a 1 stage pulley on the horn for now), tube amp, and wooden rotor.

[WesG]

Bob, you can measure the actual RPMs with a stroboscope. If you have an iPhone or similar there are apps you can download.

[Bossbandbob]

I tried that with an Ap called Strobe Light and got 75 RPM on the drum and could not get a still reading on the horn but it seems close to 120-35. This is consistent with this Wiki post which also indicates that the drum rotates slower than the horn on chorale as well...but not by muchSpin this

I wonder why the Roland programers set it up as the opposite?

 

If you use a factor of 5 with the Wiki RPM,s that means the VR-09 Fast speeds should be set about 80 for fast and 8 for slow. Using my ears with the real Leslie I guessed 80 and 15 which sounds pretty close to me!

[WesG]

You're doing something wrong. Chorale is around 38-40 and tremolo in around 340-380.

 

Fwiw you can calculate relative speed easily; the motors are identical, so the gearing is all that matters re top speed.

[Bossbandbob]

The 130 has a 12" drum. Wouldn't that spin faster than the heavier 15"? The point still is that Roland has the Chorale speeds backwards if I am correct.

[WesG]

Rotational speed has nothing to do with diameter. Only gearing and the motor itself. I'm going downstairs to try and mesure my speakers now.

[Bossbandbob]

I know, I was referring to weight -with the smaller drum being lighter powered by basically the same motor.

[WesG]

Well. It turns out my 760's lower stack needs maintenance....it turns out it turns at many speeds, including 0 RPM. Argh!!

[mate stubb]

I know, I was referring to weight -with the smaller drum being lighter powered by basically the same motor.

 

The final speed is determined by the pulley sizes, not the drum size.

[WesG]

And further the motor speed is unaffected by the weight of the rotor, even though the acceleration might be. The motor speed is derived from the AC line frequency.

[Bossbandbob]

I know, I was referring to weight -with the smaller drum being lighter powered by basically the same motor.

 

The final speed is determined by the pulley sizes, not the drum size.

Yeah, forgot about that but the large pulley on top of the 12"

is probably smaller than the 15".

Still we are getting somewhat OT here. VR-09 ....is that default 6-9 setting on chorale incorrect? It is much harder to hear than tremolo when comparing it to the real thing. YMMV but the organ and tremolo settings tweaks I have shared above IMO make that VR-09 organ sound really good- at least in my studio playing along with MP3''s. I Will be trying them at a gig this Thursday. I also used the organ sounds from J Giels Shoot Your Shot' live and Jk & Steppenwolf 'Hootchie Cootchie Man' live MP3's for reference.

 

 

 

[WesG]

New tip: If you are using the m-audio experssion pedal, adjust it so that the organ is a smidge more than just barely audible with the pedal all the way back. This results in a far better user experience, with a more organ-like sweep.

[brenner13]

Just got my Ashby adapter for my Yamaha FC7 today...it is WONDERFUL! Getting ready to eeeebay that Roland EV5.

[Bossbandbob]

"one of the great things about the VR-09... There are 3 sitar waves in the PCM samples.. Wave number 225/226/227.. And i would expect that you can use these waves and the iPad editor to create a sitar sound... That said, I haven't listened to the waves so I don't know how good or bad they are.. But that is where I'd start"

 

OK, I found the Sitar waves on the editor and selected them. I've edited plenty of piano and organ patches on this and other boards but don't use Synth lead or Pad voices all that often so never really programed those sounds before. How does one "listen to the waves" and how does one get them into the VR-09? first I selected a synth patch to edit on the VR-09. Then, when I selected "Sitar wave 226",the sound did not change to a Sitar- whether I hit the read button or not. I was able to affect the sound with the myriad of knobs and sliders on the Ipad ap and got it to sound somewhat like a sitar. When I went to save the sound on a registration (which I have done successfully many times before-also just upgraded to 1.3 today)it did not Write it for some reason and my "Sitar" disappeared into thin air! This would be a lot easier if Roland just posted a Sitar patch somewhere that I could just load on a USB stick.

[Bossbandbob]

Well, I did create a passable Sitar sound on second try. Pretty sure the partials were on but it did not sound anything like a Sitar until I started twiddling knobs and sliders on either the IPad ap or keyboard. Unless there is some trick to it, it is really difficult to turn the" knobs" on the IPad. Apparently when you select a Wave, that sound is buried under the layers and effects that were used to create the selected synth patch that one is editing. If my hypothesis is right, eliminating or adjusting those reveals the sound of the selected Wave.

 

I also was able to save the sound as a registration. Not sure what happened the first time, but since I did the 1.3 update,I no longer get asked if I want to "overwrite the current registration." It just does it immediately.

 

FYI, the update takes at least 20 minutes to complete.

 

[WesG]

Now here's the real question: the synth sound you turned into a Sitar. Can you still use the factory sound in other registrations, or have they all become sitars?

 

I haven't really used the iPad app, but ISTR seeing on YouTube that to "turn" a knob you put your finger on the knob and then drag it up or down.

 

Wes

[Bossbandbob]

The one factory sound I selected to edit was overwritten in the Registration becoming the Sitar. that's the only way you can save it to the VR-09. I'm not sure if it the original tone is still available on the board anymore but I'll check later. I chose one I would never use anyway. I like the VR-09 a lot but don't like the fact you can't load individual tone files from Roland's website unless you create them yourself on the Ipad editor.At least that's the way I understand it.

 

Edit: The factory sound I used, Sq Lead 2, is still intact in its original form and can be used for other Registrations.

[WesG]

Thanks, Bob. Sounds like Roland might have quietly fixed that particular gaffe with the 1.03 firmware release. Maybe that's why it delayed?

 

Sounds like I'd better update to 1.03 soon. I'm working on a librarian, and have ideas for how to merge VRSYN001.DAT files when organizing registrations. Moving patches around through a UPG file (and renaming them) is a done deal, but I haven't cracked the internals of the DAT files yet - or the internals of the patches in the UPG files beyond their names.

 

Wes

[Bossbandbob]

I have no idea what those files are that you're talking about Wes, so I'll leave the library up to your expertise Thanks for the IPod/knob finger sweep hint. That works great. Now I can stop cursing my IPad!

[WesG]

When you write data to USB, registration data is stored in files named VR09_xxx.UPG and the "deep synth edit" data is stored in a file named VRSYN001.DAT. The xxx in the UPG filename corresponds to the registration set number in the index.

 

The .DAT naming scheme has the unbelievable side-effect of making it impossible to store deep synth edits for two different registration sets on the same USB key. At least on pre-1.03. Maybe they fixed that, too. That would be a God-send.

 

Wes

[tommym]

THANK YOU BRENNER - this has been plaguing me to the point where I stopped using the iPad app. Actually, the iPad was my gf's, and we broke up today, so I guess it's a non-issue for me now.

Which are the synth settings in the iPad editor where you affect all of the registrations (i.e change the synth data file)? Is it all of them?

 

I have been just editing with the front panel because I still want my patches to work when I download the stuff from the Axial website etc.

 

Wes

 

The iPad editor can sync your editing to all three PARTIALS by pressing the three SELECT buttons at the same time.

 

If you do any deep editing with the iPad, it is highly recommended that you save your current registrations on a thumb drive and use a different thumb drive to save your deep edits. Also, one should keep a journal of which presets have been altered in a registration, because when you bring up a preset to edit, it reverts to factory settings and there is no way to tell if it has been altered and saved to a registration. I've lost many hours of programming and several killer patches because I did not realize I was overwriting previous work. You have to use different thumb drives because each preset will default to the most recent alterations and change all registrations that use that preset. Same goes for when you download the Axial sounds. It might be best to get several small capacity USB's (1GB or less) and figure out a way to file them, listing the presets that have been altered on each one.

 

Now for another wish list item...Wouldn't it be neat if you could save patch settings in the iPad editor and have a LOAD button to instantly change all the parameters of a registration in the VR09? This might be a great way to share patches through the cloud, too.