2 Tier stand recommendations needed (or alternative ideas)

[enigma0Z]

So... I'm looking for a new 2 tier stand. I currently have the OnStage folding Z stand, and while I like it for it's sturdiness, it takes FOR-EVER to set up (among other issues)... See the questions below, after I describe my rig...

 

My rig (which is basically a big soft-synth setup) currently looks like this (from the bottom up)

 

Floor: 2 sustain pedals (one for each keyboard, one expression pedal for the synth board, one USB multi-switch for various utilitarian functions

 

Stand leg: Velcro applied to one side for USB hub, cables running to it from various locations

 

Bottom tier: 88 key fully weighted keyboard (currently a "small" one -- Casio PX130)

 

Top tier: Full-length (as long as the keyboard below) shelf that contains my laptop (Macbook 15"), a Korg MicroKontrol, and an M-Audio Axiom 49.

 

All keyboards are USB-based and run into the hub which the computer is plugged into, and all sounds come out of the headphone jack on the computer, or an audio interface if I'm so inclined (see below)...

 

With that out of the way, I have the following problems with the stand:

 

1) All things have to be taken apart for travel, save for the center braces (of which there are two) on the stand.

2) All things have to be screwed in, which both slows things down further and gives me the distinct fear that I will in my haste strip one or more threads and render the stand useless

3) When in transport, all things are in a bag pretty much flopping around with each other and making noise, getting dinged up needlessly, etc... (no I'm not paranoid about getting dents, but it's annoying that this is the only feasible way to transport it)

 

Because of the number of parts in my rig (computer, keyboards, shelf, controllers, pedals, etc...) my rig takes a bit of time to set up anyway, but the stand, if I need to get it set up, easily takes as much time as the gear itself.

 

Given that, I would require the following in the stand:

 

1) Sturdy - That top tier has to support a lot of odds and ends, it's a big shelf (16 inches-ish deep, 50 inches-ish wide), and it's not all a single piece (like I suspect most 2 tier stands are designed to be used)

2) Quick to set up - Ideally it's minimal: Arrive, unpack the stand, and set it up in a few minutes instead of 15 minutes to half an hour.

3) Adjustable top tier, or one that fits my needs - My top tier is VERY close to my bottom keyboard, simply because I don't want to be hiding behind my laptop. Ideally the stand wouldn't be excessively tall (like, say the quicklok 2 tier x-stand with way too much room between tiers), or would (preferably) be adjustable to suit my needs

 

Following that, I'd also add these to my wishlist...

 

4) No disassembly required - I'd rather not have to remove parts and pieces to set up or tear down, even if it means re-adjusting every time (I can use paint or tape to mark of adjustment points)

5) Compact for travel and storage - I would end up leaving the Z stand at home in the "studio" and pack this thing somewhere away until I needed to travel... Also, compact is relative -- A folded "x" stand is "compact" to me, though more compact (like a column stand) would be better of course...)

[AnotherScott]

K&M 18880 with 2nd tier ("stacker," as they call it), either 18881 or 18882. (I generally prefer to flip the top tier backwards.) Very light weight, folds to be quite compact, and it moves in one piece (no parts need to be detached for transport). Setup/breakdown time probably about 10 seconds. The top tier doesn't get as close to the bottom tier as ideal, but you could drill more holes, or actually, it will usually work fine if you don't use any of the holes and just let the tier drop down as far as it will go, and that height works pretty well with a Casio 88 on bottom.

[PinkFloydDudi]

Whole lot of 2-tier Z-Stands that don't require you to take anything apart, just click a couple things and it folds right up.

Quik-lok has a lot of them:

Z-Stand 2-tier

[hoggernick]

There have been quite a few stand-related threads here and at KC lately. Your setup isn't much different than the ones mentioned in some of those threads.

 

Your rig is very similar to one I'm putting together, and I've pretty much settled on a platform stand that folds up well (On Stage 7150 - http://onstagestands.com/products/view/116975 ), and a second tier that holds a 49 key controller and does NOT require the crossmember bar disassembly like the run-of-the-mill 2nd tier for platforms and x stands. The second tier I've settled on is the On Stage KSA8000 - http://onstagestands.com/products/view/117488

 

It allows for plenty of foot pedals, and a height-adjusted 2nd tier that doesn't have to be completely reassembled each gig. I'm not completely certain about the depth adjustment of the 2nd tier, but it looks like it could surely be setup in a way that gets it pretty close to you if needed.

[JeffLearman]

If I replace my pair of X stands (which are incredibly fast to set up, but a bit of a nusiance carrying the two), the top two contenders are the 18880 and the Quiklok Z1ALU (Z1 in aluminmum) with Z2 tier.

 

The 18880 folds up very nicely for travel, even with the tier. The Z1 folds great without the tier. Word is it folds well with the tier, but I'd like to see a pic. Based on the Z2 pic, it looks promising (and looks much less fiddly than the Z726 linked to above.)

 

For pics, see this thread.

[CEB]

Quik Lok Monolith is one piece. Zero setup time. I have 2 of them. The one in my home music room has a 4' x 15" shelf on the top tier for my computer and interface and a reading stand I use for scores.

 

Cons are: If you sit the bottom tier on it's lowest setting is still tall. You need a bench with decent height adjustment. I have a very long torso so it fits me fine. DB our moderator had a lot of trouble with his top tiers. I have not had any issues but the quality control at Quik Lok is not the best.

 

Pros - it is relatively less expensive than other stands, quickest setup I know of, and you can walk straight through the stand while handling a big bottom board. There is no obstructions from the front or back. The bottom tier handles a ton of weight .... BUT Dave had issues with his upper tiers staying tightly locked. If you are riding a shelf that must stay level this is a huge issue.

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/rig2.jpg

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/DSCF0032.jpg

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I'd be curious to see the Monolith folded. Still, I'd have issues with the 30 lb weight. I saw in the other thread that the tiers can be modified to get the two tiers closer, that's good, but does the top tier have to angle, or can it be set to be parallel with the bottom? (Same issue with the Z1ALU, where I'd also like to see how it folds with the tiers attached.)

[JeffLearman]

Yeah, since someone (perhaps you) mentioned the ability to walk through the stand when set up, I've noticed how nice that would be when setting up and tearing down.

 

The biggest issue I have with the Monlith is that while it folds flat (as do the ones listed above), it's still pretty big (especially with the tier), and I'm not sure it would work well in my minivan -- I'd have to completely change how I load stuff, and maybe take the rear bench out (which I can normally leave in).

 

At 23 lbs it's no lightweight, but probably a lot lighter and easier to carry than my two X stands.

 

Here's what I used for my top tier: it's a heavy-duty single-brace stand, upside down, with the front side of the feet hacked off:

 

http://learjeff.net/forums/keyboard/top-stand.jpghttp://learjeff.net/forums/keyboard/top-stand-2.jpg

 

Yeah, I know: not what you're looking for!

[CEB]

Yeah, since someone (perhaps you) mentioned the ability to walk through the stand when set up, I've noticed how nice that would be when setting up and tearing down.

 

The biggest issue I have with the Monlith is that while it folds flat (as do the ones listed above), it's still pretty big (especially with the tier), and I'm not sure it would work well in my minivan -- I'd have to completely change how I load stuff, and maybe take the rear bench out (which I can normally leave in).

 

Yeah that is probably true. I carry the thing by hanging it upside down on these hook thingies mounted on the inside of the trailer sidewall. I've laid it flat in a Taurus wagon then set everything on top of it and visa versa with the stand on top flat but to do that I pulled off the tier in carried them with my cables.

[CEB]

I'd be curious to see the Monolith folded. Still, I'd have issues with the 30 lb weight. I saw in the other thread that the tiers can be modified to get the two tiers closer, that's good, but does the top tier have to angle, or can it be set to be parallel with the bottom? (Same issue with the Z1ALU, where I'd also like to see how it folds with the tiers attached.)

 

It can set parallel the one in my basement is parallel. I put a white shelf board on it and on that is my computer and USB interface and sheet music stand and other crap. I'm off this weekend. I can take a picture with it flat in a couple of weeks.... if I remember.

[hoggernick]

Here's what I used for my top tier: it's a heavy-duty single-brace stand, upside down, with the front side of the feet hacked off:

Very clever use of a second X stand!

[Bob L]

Has anyone tried one of these:

 

Monolith Double Tier

 

Looks good. I am in the market also. I want something quick to set up/tear down and solid for 2 boards.

[Zydecat]

The Monolith two-tier is discussed & pictured in posts above. I've used one for several years and like it. A bit cumbersome to carry at first, but rock-solid, super easy set-up, and lots of leg and foot room. I lay it flat and load gear on top or stand it up between keyboard cases, depending on the vehicle.

[theGman]

I know I'm prejudiced since I own one, but I can't find any downside to the K&N Spider Pro.

It's light, folds up quick, one piece, fully adjustable board heights, etc.

Well.....maybe..... one downside is that with a 2 keyboard rig set up for standing, your front profile resembles a Sopwith Camel or Fokker D VII. That might not be a downside anyway!

[Doerfler]

Yeah, since someone (perhaps you) mentioned the ability to walk through the stand when set up, I've noticed how nice that would be when setting up and tearing down.

 

The biggest issue I have with the Monlith is that while it folds flat (as do the ones listed above), it's still pretty big (especially with the tier), and I'm not sure it would work well in my minivan -- I'd have to completely change how I load stuff, and maybe take the rear bench out (which I can normally leave in).

 

At 23 lbs it's no lightweight, but probably a lot lighter and easier to carry than my two X stands.

 

Here's what I used for my top tier: it's a heavy-duty single-brace stand, upside down, with the front side of the feet hacked off:

 

http://learjeff.net/forums/keyboard/top-stand.jpghttp://learjeff.net/forums/keyboard/top-stand-2.jpg

 

Yeah, I know: not what you're looking for!

 

is that really an Ensoniq keyboard?

[The_Star_Guy]

I'd be curious to see the Monolith folded. Still, I'd have issues with the 30 lb weight. I saw in the other thread that the tiers can be modified to get the two tiers closer, that's good, but does the top tier have to angle, or can it be set to be parallel with the bottom? (Same issue with the Z1ALU, where I'd also like to see how it folds with the tiers attached.)

 

It can set parallel the one in my basement is parallel. I put a white shelf board on it and on that is my computer and USB interface and sheet music stand and other crap. I'm off this weekend. I can take a picture with it flat in a couple of weeks.... if I remember.

 

+1 for the Monolith. I use this as well in my studio, and am looking for a 2nd one for stage use. The bottom tier can handle a LOT of weight and easily supports even my MK-80. The open front is especially conducive for unrestricted piano playing across the keyboard in virtually any position. I used to use an Invisible Stand on stage back in the 80's, but since those no longer seem to be available, this is my current preferred choice.

[Losendoskeys]

You missed a big debate on stands a month ago............

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2474303/1

Here's my twin Quiklok Z1 setup - each stand weighs less than 6Kg and takes 10 seconds to set up:

 

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o430/alanjpearson/Keyboard%20Rig/DSC00323_zpsf1b0606d.jpg

 

http://www.musicalstore2005.com/images/17020_.jpg

[JeffLearman]

is that really an Ensoniq keyboard?

No, it's a Bosendorpher piano, cleverly disguised.

 

MR-76, which I got in 1997. I think it'll soon be replaced with a Privia PX-5S, but I sure will miss some of its features. It's not worth much so I'll probably keep it set up at home for practice rather than sell it.

[enigma0Z]

Wow everyone, thanks for the responses!

 

Quick answers --

 

Monolith: I'm not sold on how the monolith folds up. I like the concept, but it looks a bit ungainly when folded - http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f146/stillearning/standfolded.jpg

 

Quikloc Z stand -- Looks much better than how my Z stand folds up. Any issues with the top tier supporting weight and/or being stable? I have a lot of it... Does it "remember" it's height settings when you pack it up?

 

What about the K&M Spider? I like the column stands, but the Apex 90 was TOOOO wobbly for me - the keys in store that were out for demonstration bounced like a car with hydraulics. Is it stable, does it wobble and shake? I've also read that it's exceptionally tall (and I'm not -- about average at 5'8")

 

 

[theGman]

Just happened to have a set-up Spider Pro next to me: 50" tall

[HAMEGZ]

Monolith and Spider Pro here, plus the Quik Lok Z two tier stands.The Spider pro is in the closet, just didn't work for me sitting down, looked out of place with the column hiding me, plus not a lot foot real estate if your running several pedals and its heavy.

 

The quik Lok folds up easy but running the second tier involves removing it and then finding someplace to store/transport it. There is a bag for the stand but you have to disassemble everything to fit it in the bag.

 

My monolith is many years old and has survived bouncing around in a trailer. It does fold flat and easy to transport.

 

I tried an US V stand, two tier, it has broken twice already. In fairness it is the original one, I see they made some revisions to it .

[JeffLearman]

MonolThe quik Lok folds up easy but running the second tier involves removing it and then finding someplace to store/transport it. There is a bag for the stand but you have to disassemble everything to fit it in the bag.

Are you talking about the Z2? It looks to me like it hinges just like the other hinges and folds relatively flat, though not as flat as without the tier.

 

If it does fold, I'd like to see a pic of it. If it doesn't, that makes the 18880 the clear winner from my view. Here's the 18880:

 

http://static.mijnwebwinkel.nl/winkel/oldeniel/full17757302.jpghttp://static.mijnwebwinkel.nl/winkel/oldeniel/full17757302_a.jpg

 

Height adjustment looks quicker on the Z1. I think I'd leave the 18880 height alone after setting it up.

[HAMEGZ]

MonolThe quik Lok folds up easy but running the second tier involves removing it and then finding someplace to store/transport it. There is a bag for the stand but you have to disassemble everything to fit it in the bag.

Are you talking about the Z2? It looks to me like it hinges just like the other hinges and folds relatively flat, though not as flat as without the tier.

 

If it does fold, I'd like to see a pic of it. If it doesn't, that makes the 18880 the clear winner from my view. Here's the 18880:

 

http://static.mijnwebwinkel.nl/winkel/oldeniel/full17757302.jpghttp://static.mijnwebwinkel.nl/winkel/oldeniel/full17757302_a.jpg

 

Height adjustment looks quicker on the Z1. I think I'd leave the 18880 height alone after setting it up.

 

My bad, my memory sux, wasn't at home to look. It is the Proline/On stage version

 

 

http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/quality,85/KS7365-EJ_KEYBOARD_STAND-e9073efc8a6f13f1f92e58d4b04156ec.jpg

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I have both the OnStage shown and the K&M shown - I like the OnStage for studio and semi-permanent setups; but it really doesn't fold up quickly, and it weighs more than an Electro 3. Setup with the K&M is a few seconds, tear down the same (and even with the second tier, it weighs about 8 pounds.

[Losendoskeys]

The quik Lok folds up easy but running the second tier involves removing it and then finding someplace to store/transport it. There is a bag for the stand but you have to disassemble everything to fit it in the bag.

 

I don't know exactly which stand you're referring to but you DON'T have to remover the second tier on the Z71.

The whole thing folds up flat - I'll take a picture on Sunday when I pack up for the next gig............

[Losendoskeys]

Wow everyone, thanks for the responses!

 

Quick answers --

 

Quikloc Z stand -- Looks much better than how my Z stand folds up. Any issues with the top tier supporting weight and/or being stable? I have a lot of it... Does it "remember" it's height settings when you pack it up?

 

The second tier supports weight without problem though I would't put an 88 key workstation up there!

I have the aluminium version - you might want the steel one if you want to put two heavy keyboards up instead of one plus a smaller one.

Height settings are set up by click stop so it's easy.

[enigma0Z]

OK -- Next questions...

 

K&M 18880 --

It looks like it's been discontinued, I can only seem to find it online at B&H... Does anyone know if this is the case, that it is actually discontinued?

 

Also, where does that support bar between the two legs in the back go when it's folded?

 

Will it hold itself folded, or does it need some kind of additional security (velcro, bungee, or whatever) to keep it collapsed?

 

K&M Spider (Pro) --

 

With the Spider Pro, is that top tier permanently tilted down, or is there a way to make it flat?

 

Does the spider remember it's height settings when you break it down for transport?

 

How heavy is it? I've heard many reports that's quite a bit of weight to lift...

 

I have 4 foot pedals -- two piano style sustain pedals, one expression pedal, and a UMI USB 3, 3 foot switch pedal ... would these fit under or with the spider's legs? ... Could I put them onto a pedalboard of sorts and still have them fit properly?

 

Thanks again everyone.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I got a bit better pricing from http://www.musicstandsalone.com/k&m18880tablestylekeyboardstand Although they didn't list the 18881 second tier, I asked them, and they got that for me too.

The support bar is a bit longer than everything else, IF only one tier is present. It is short enough to fold up with everything on two tier.

I personally use a couple of short bungee cords just ot make sure that the stand stays folded - I could tighten up the adjustments, but the cords are quicker.

I do usually use a 3 pedal sustain, and an expression pedal with the K&M - no problems making them fit.

 

 

Don't have the Spider, so no answers there.

[AnotherScott]

where does that support bar between the two legs in the back go when it's folded?

Maybe the same place butterflies go when it rains.

 

Actually, it stays permanently attached on one side, and lifts and swings off the other, so it just hangs down. But I actually have left mine unattached... which I guess may or may not be a good idea depending on what you're putting on it.

 

Will it hold itself folded, or does it need some kind of additional security (velcro, bungee, or whatever) to keep it collapsed?

I see you got one bungee answer, but I just lock down the same two knobs that you have to loosen to collapse it in the first place. I think that's a better idea because it only takes a few seconds, and by locking those knobs down, you assure that you won't lose them.

[CEB]

FWIW -

The easiest way to carry a monolith is upside down grabbing the bottom or sticking you arm through the stand and setting the bottom on your shoulder. I also carry it where the legs would swing toward me if they would happen to want to swing. This way they don't.