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Kronos outselling Motif XF?


Synthoid

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So the Kronos is actually in the lead with sales over the Motif XF (something I recently heard from a Sweetwater rep). I'm just wondering when Yamaha will bring a "game changer" of their own to market.

 

Perhaps it's just a pet peeve of mine, but Yamaha used to produce some highly innovative synths in the past. Now all we see are updated versions (and spinoffs) of the Motif. I guess they don't mind "sitting on their hands," so to speak.

 

Yes, synthesizers and workstations are only a small part of their total sales, but I'd just like to see Yamaha produce something exciting again.

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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It's amazing how dormant they are... they must be sitting on top of a mountain of good technologies they could release. I still prefer the abilities of the Motif ES over the others. Roland get smashed by everyone for "recycling" but Yamaha must be the recycling kings right now. At least Roland's SuperNATURAL stuff is something new. Maybe Yamaha are waiting and then are going to drop something massive that blows everyone else away. They must have the resources... and a healthier balance sheet...
Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc
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Yeah... They are probably waiting for the others to fall by the wayside...

 

But I still think the future of keyboards is in this iPad I am typing on right now at 35000 feet on my way to Chicago. It's only a matter of time until I grab my keyboard controller in one hand and my iPad in the other hand with the latest samples I just downloaded to the gig....

 

It will make no economic sense to build SK's, Nords, Motifs, or anything else when a musician can spend less on hardware and get the latest software through the inet.

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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Only when they fix the latency. And build decent controllers. I went the all computer route. Sounded fine. PITA to get in and out of gigs, and just not fun to play. The Fantom G makes for a much more musical experience. The hardware guys need to build stuff that sounds as good or better than software and has a UI and build quality that makes it a musical instrument.
Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc
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That will happen, eventually...

 

What blows me away is he fact that all these hardware companies are coming out with controllers with less than nine controllers, and cheap keybeds... Talk about "real musical instruments", you would have been appalled at NAMM,,,

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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... I still think the future of keyboards is in this iPad I am typing on right now at 35000 feet on my way to Chicago. It's only a matter of time until I grab my keyboard controller in one hand and my iPad in the other hand with the latest samples I just downloaded to the gig....

 

I'm not ready to buy into this sentiment quite yet. Granted the iPad shows all sorts of potential ... with more and more uses showing up every day. However, I can't imagine any of today's keyboard manufacturers hitching their wagon to Apple and giving up their control of the processing guts of their product. The processing guts of a synth are a HUGE part in what makes a given keyboard is a hit with the market or not. The "I'll grab my controller and my iPad" approach relegates today's keyboard manufacturers to simply being "controller builders" - which given the scarity of quality controllers on the market today, doesn't appear to be a direction any of them are headed.

 

...and the market is even more heated today with cheap iPad keyboard solutions, VR-09s, Casio super-pianos, Nords.... So whatever they come up with, it better be revolutionary. And cheap.

 

I'll grant you that the market is heated today ... however I think it's a mistake to think that "cheap" is such a driving factor. I've laid hands on plenty of "cheap" solutions ... and have happily walked away and spent far more to purchase what I believe to be better quality. Products that offer great value (the right combination of features and quality - at the right price) - will get my business over products that are simply "cheap" every time.

The SpaceNorman :freak:
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Now, cheap and quality goes hand in hand today...

 

Having laid hands plenty of what I consider "cheap" controllers (M-Audio stuff jumps to mind) ... I can't say I agree with your statement. Marginal actions and keybed feel, wall wart power supplies, etc. - are all facets of a "cheap" keyboard. Quality has certainly NOT gone hand in hand with many of these products.

The SpaceNorman :freak:
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Now, cheap and quality goes hand in hand today...

 

Having laid hands plenty of what I consider "cheap" controllers (M-Audio stuff jumps to mind) ... I can't say I agree with your statement. Marginal actions and keybed feel, wall wart power supplies, etc. - are all facets of a "cheap" keyboard. Quality has certainly NOT gone hand in hand with many of these products.

 

The cheap MIDI controllers are indeed junk. I'm talking about HW-related synthesizers. Compared with let's say 1980 you could do far more complex work with today's factory automation that has dropped down the prices for very complex systems. Most of the costs are really with R&D and marketing. If a keyboard/computer is expensive, it better have something totally unique value added part. Which is hard today with iPads and SW synths.

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IMO, big workstation KBs like the Kronos and Motif are going to disappear in a decade or less.

 

Those sounds and features as software apps on a pad or tablet MIDI'd to a synth, ROMpler, clonewheel or DP (digital piano) will become standard.

 

Wishfully thinking, maybe the Kawai VPC will inspire other KB manufacturers to produce a robust MIDI controller with a built-in audio interface. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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As for good keyboards, I've checked the existing Casio Privias and higher end Yamaha DP keyboards and the key quality is very, very good. At a price point below 1k and that includes piano sampling synthesis and built-in speakers.

 

So it's quite doable to make good keyboard controllers. It's just that the market is focusing on bedroom producers that hunt and pick notes from a keyboard.... Casio is showing the way with their forthcoming PX-5S, that's for sure.

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Casio is showing the way with their forthcoming PX-5S, that's for sure.

 

 

But imagine if they just had the controller guts in it without the sounds... And sold it for $750! Bring along your iPad, plug it in... And go...

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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The problems with iPad as a music platform, is that it's primary function has nothing to do with music performance, and it is a product on the edge of hyper consumer volatility. I-pads may well not exist in 2-3 years.

 

As to Yamaha, they've been slacking on this front.

 

Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff.
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Casio is showing the way with their forthcoming PX-5S, that's for sure.

 

 

But imagine if they just had the controller guts in it without the sounds... And sold it for $750! Bring along your iPad, plug it in... And go...

 

$750 controller plus $249 for some sounds. Sounds like a plan for $999. :thu:

 

 

-Mike Martin

 

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The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for.

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But I still think the future of keyboards is in this iPad I am typing on right now at 35000 feet on my way to Chicago.

 

what a nonsense, that will never happen. (thanks God)

 

Regarding yamaha, Motif provides still the best overall sounds package on the market so I don't see a reason why they should worry and hurry although I heard some rumors on motifator forum about Motif Z coming soon. Z like Zenith which basically means above everything...

 

p.s.

BTW I would take sweetwater comments with a wink.

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But I still think the future of keyboards is in this iPad I am typing on right now at 35000 feet on my way to Chicago.

 

what a nonsense, that will never happen. .

 

"Sailing across the Atlantic? What a nonsense, that will never happen!"

 

Check THIS out...

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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IMO, big workstation KBs like the Kronos and Motif are going to disappear in a decade or less.

 

Those sounds and features as software apps on a pad or tablet MIDI'd to a synth, ROMpler, clonewheel or DP (digital piano) will become standard.

 

Wishfully thinking, maybe the Kawai VPC will inspire other KB manufacturers to produce a robust MIDI controller with a built-in audio interface. :cool:

 

I think that there will always be workstation keyboards, just like there will always be acoustic pianos.

 

I'm one of the guys that put all my eggs in softsynths and DAWs for my studio, but continued to use hardware for gigs. A few years ago, I upgraded my hardboard to Motifs. Now I hardly touch the DAW anymore. I use the Motif to write (you can't turn it on without coming up with new song ideas) and use the DAW to arrange and export.

Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha AN200, Alesis Micron, Sonar X3, Arturia Microbrute, Behringer Model D, Yamaha UX-3 Acoustic Piano, assorted homemade synth modules
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Also, I'm also wondering when Yamaha is going to come out with something. This is sort of crazy, because I bought a Motif XF six months ago. Why do I want it to be obsolete?
Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha AN200, Alesis Micron, Sonar X3, Arturia Microbrute, Behringer Model D, Yamaha UX-3 Acoustic Piano, assorted homemade synth modules
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But I still think the future of keyboards is in this iPad I am typing on right now at 35000 feet on my way to Chicago.

 

what a nonsense, that will never happen. .

 

"Sailing across the Atlantic? What a nonsense, that will never happen!"

 

Check THIS out...

 

what a comparison :) yeah, they sailed across the Atlantic and guess what - nobody is doing this anymore, we are flying now :laugh:

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Also, I'm also wondering when Yamaha is going to come out with something. This is sort of crazy, because I bought a Motif XF six months ago. Why do I want it to be obsolete?

 

yes this is crazy that people have to have the latest and the greatest regardless of the fact what they already have is probably better... I think many musicians today start to appreciate more older instruments.

 

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Casio is showing the way with their forthcoming PX-5S, that's for sure.

 

 

But imagine if they just had the controller guts in it without the sounds... And sold it for $750! Bring along your iPad, plug it in... And go...

 

$750 controller plus $149 for some sounds. Sounds like a plan for $999. :thu:

 

 

LOL. I see what you did there. I'm very keen to try one - and see how that 999 dollars converts to UK sterling. It'd be less than £650 this morning. Hoping it's not a pound for dollar thing when it reaches us.

I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books.
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... I still think the future of keyboards is in this iPad I am typing on right now at 35000 feet on my way to Chicago. It's only a matter of time until I grab my keyboard controller in one hand and my iPad in the other hand with the latest samples I just downloaded to the gig....

 

I'm not ready to buy into this sentiment quite yet. Granted the iPad shows all sorts of potential ... with more and more uses showing up every day. However, I can't imagine any of today's keyboard manufacturers hitching their wagon to Apple and giving up their control of the processing guts of their product.

 

I'm not excited about an iPad rig either. While it was tempting initially, there's something very "Mickey Mouse" about it, especially when playing live. You look around and see the rest of the band playing real instruments... a keyboard controller and iPad onstage just don't seem professional.

 

Hey, maybe it's the wave of the future, but we keyboardists hear enough complaining from the audience like, "you're just pressing a few buttons and not really playing." Seems to me an iPad rig would put the last nail in the coffin. But that's just my two cents.

 

Of course we have gotten off topic.

 

:)

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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Based on serial numbers it appears Korg sold ~15,000 in the 1.5 years. At $3000 selling price that's $45m. Not bad considering Yamaha has boasted $100m for the Motif line (but that's over 10 years). I know Europe's top reseller (which is HUGE) has had it at the top of their list for some time.

 

As far as the future goes, it's not hard to imagine that in 5 years time Korg could be selling the Kronos technology at Krome prices. Figure in five years of Korg and third party add-on libraries and you've got one hell of a product at no more cost than a controller and tablet.

 

I'm actually much more impressed with the hardware guys in the last few years than in the previous ten. During the decade of the 2000s, it was just ROMpler sounds. But now you've got impressive EP modeling from Yamaha, Korg and Roland, streaming samples from Korg, SuperNatural technology holds promise, significant improvements with B3 clones, Nord's impressive, growing library and the Kronos with multiple engines. Plus nearly everyone is making an effort to reduce size and weight.

 

Eight years ago I was using a laptop with an S90 to get sounds iPad users can only dream about having today. So you'll find me little less enthused about the iPad "revolution."

 

Busch.

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it's really interesting to watch this forum and how see how quickly it veers completely off topic ..... now we're talking Ipads and VST plug ins..

 

as far as this: .. Kronos outselling Motif XF?.. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see ...

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Casio is showing the way with their forthcoming PX-5S, that's for sure.

 

 

But imagine if they just had the controller guts in it without the sounds... And sold it for $750! Bring along your iPad, plug it in... And go...

 

WHAT? When for just $250 more you already have it loaded with great sounds. I don't think so.

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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Kronos outselling Motif XF?.. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

 

Well, the rep I spoke to seemed knowledgeable. I've also read online that competing sales of the Kronos vs. Motif XF vary from month to month.

 

Bottom line, it doesn't really matter. Even though I own lots of Korg gear, I'd still like to see Yamaha return to the innovation arena.

 

:)

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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