This Just In......PX-5S

[stillplaying]

Who's the player? Is that one of you on here?

 

Also in the background of the first photo do you see they were running "Jordan Rudess Goatee Drummer iPad app." You get a 3D rendition of him on drums - all the crazy time signatures you can think of - bar of three followed by a bar of seven then a five - anything you want. That's the "Phat Jordan" preset they have on screen.

[Joe Muscara]

That's Frank Lucas.

[Josh Paxton]

This board was my favorite new thing I saw at NAMM. I love my PX-3 for piano, but when I need other sounds too (EP, Clav, etc.), it's not the board I bring. The PX-5 could change that. The Rhodes and Wurli are vastly improved over any previous Privia, to the point where they could compete with Nord and Korg offerings. I told Mike Martin that I could see this replacing my beloved but infuriatingly fragile SV1. That got a reaction from the other two guys standing nearby, who I then learned were a Korg guy, and Jerry the formerly-Korg, currently-Casio guy. (Sorry, Korg, but you had your chance for an SV2, and I'm done waiting.)

 

I found the action to be an absolute joy to play. The wood grain texture felt great under my fingers, and the resistance and responsiveness were equal or better than any number of boards I've owned that weighed a lot more and cost a lot more. I found the overall experience to be not just realistic, but inspiring; I played a couple complete tunes there at the booth, and would have liked to play more.

 

The workaround for the wah pedal is impressively clever, and more importantly, usable. They've set it up so that pressing the sustain pedal opens the filter, and letting it up again closes the filter -- but you can program how long this opening/closing action takes, to sync it with the tempo of any given tune. While this obviously won't let you do carefully controlled sweeps that follow a melodic line, it's a perfectly good solution if you're just tapping out quarter-notes.

 

I only heard little snippets of the orchestral and synth sounds, but they seemed like a very big improvement over earlier models too. Overall, if this board turns out to live up to my first impressions, then once it comes out, I can't imagine why anyone would buy another 88-note board with the letters RD or SP in the name.

[Marillo]

Because the Supernatural piano tone is still better for classical playing IMO. Much better sustain/decay, even despite the PX improvements. Over on the piano forums there's an A/B comparison of Schubert's G Flat impromptu on the PX 350 and the Roland...it's like night and day to my ears.

[Dave Ferris]

..... once it comes out, I can't imagine why anyone would buy another 88-note board with the letters RD or SP in the name.

 

Or perhaps CP or 2.

 

Darn, really wish I would have played it... I'm sure I will soon enough though. But like I said in the NAMM thread, I'm very ok with what I'm currently using.

[Dave Ferris]

Because the Supernatural piano tone is still better for classical playing IMO. Much better sustain/decay, even despite the PX improvements. Over on the piano forums there's an A/B comparison of Schubert's G Flat impromptu on the PX 350 and the Roland...it's like night and day to my ears.

 

For at home classical playing..the tone of the RD700NX is very tough to beat imo.

[Steve LeBlanc]

I love that it runs on batteries, even on big pro stages my power has gotten knocked out

[Ekewaka]

I love that it runs on batteries, even on big pro stages my power has gotten knocked out

 

Plus those power bricks are nasty, could be forgotten somewhere, tiny cables that easily break and so on. I wish keyboards had built-in power transformers, with solid state circuit they could be squeezed into tiny areas and won't heat the PCB. But it costs money and this is one way the keyboard companies squeeze out more profits.

[RedKey]

But it costs money and this is one way the keyboard companies squeeze out more profits.

 

I don't think it's all about profits.

I could be wrong, but I understand that it's not just the cost of the parts.

Having an internal power supply requires UL approval which costs a lot of money and delays production for months (+). I would rather pay more and wait longer for a built in power supply, but I get why manufacturers opt for the pre-approved external ones. Dealing with UL sucks and getting products to market faster is generally good.

[willf]

I'm also interested in this. It would be a serious omission if there's no expression pedal in ona pro board, that is partially marketed as a four-zone controller. Then again - Casio don't offer expression pedal in any other of there portable pianos or on the XW-P1, which I think is a shame.

 

Mike - could you shed some light on this?

 

If there is no support for an expression pedal then I think that this will impact on the sales of the PX-5S.

[AnotherScott]

Are the batteries included?

 

Seriously.... Is this really something that we absolutely need as keyboard players? I would have loved Casio to spend the money they spent on a battery compartment and associated power switching circuitry .... to adding three more faders and an expression pedal input making the board more useful to keyboard players....

 

Or maybe I am missing something......

I think Bif may be on to something, that it may be more of a factor in other international markets. Still, I can't say it's entirely without its benefits, i.e. the "wall wart insurance," not losing even the x seconds that a reboot requires with a power glitch, or, with a battery powered amp, an easy ability to play outdoors. Like when you're playing a wedding, but they want the ceremony out on the beach. There are also times when you have very little time to set something up, and sometimes the thing that takes the longest is finding power! Battery power wouldn't make me more inclined to buy something, but it's kinda cool to have it.

 

As for the cost, I certainly wouldn't assume that taking it out would pay for more faders or expression pedal support. As Mike said, things can be more complicated than they seem, and obviously there was more to adding an expression jack to this design than just the matter of the cost of a pedal jack and some software tweaks. Battery power can be a pretty cheap thing to do, if the AC is downconverting to 12v anyway and if the device's amperage demands are not very high. There have been dirt cheap electronics (computer speakers and what not) that have run off both battery and AC.

 

Anyway, I agree that there doesn't seem to have been an outcry for more battery powered gear, so I get the eyebrow raise. I think it's either Bif's thought that it's more important elsewhere, or it was something that they realized they could do for about fifty cents. Or both. ;-)

[Mike Martin]

I hope you don't mind me posting some pictures from the booth:

 

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8352/8424322397_22e4861d4b_z.jpg

Tom Brislin

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8424319981_34bd5d225a_z.jpg

Starr Parodi with Jerry Kovarsky

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8424319111_864fe188e6_z.jpg

Jerry Kovarsky and Brian Auger

 

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8425407988_3cae242605_z.jpg

Michael Lehmann Boddicker

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8323/8416228059_c692ce326c_z.jpg

Delmar Brown

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8476/8416227127_58e789fea4_z.jpg

Clarance McDonald, Delmar Brown, Dan Farrow and Larry Dunn

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/8424326059_5ffb18bb8c_z.jpg

Larry Dunn came back again.

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8417320126_c30dfd9656_z.jpg

Joe Sample

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Put me in the group that likes that this board does not have built in speakers, it's a stage piano, no need for the extra weight, and the board looks more slick without them, which is why I use a PX3.

I understand that some people are actually turned off by the presence of speakers... that's why I liked the idea of shipping a unit like the 5S as is, but designing it so that an optional speaker could be installed. Getting back to my wedding scenario, it is so nice to just bring a board and stand into the ceremony area, plug it in, and start playing, without having to bring an amp... the amp means more trips, more setup time, two more cables to run, uglier aesthetics. And then sometimes you have to rush out of there to get the gear to the reception area... again, the less you have to carry and wire up, the better. It's also great for unplugged rehearsals, working out vocals and such. It's nice to go someone's house and just bring a board you can play with their acoustic guitars, again, without having to lug and wire up an amp. And so on. Once you've had those conveniences, you miss them when they're gone.

[Ekewaka]

But it costs money and this is one way the keyboard companies squeeze out more profits.

 

I don't think it's all about profits.

I could be wrong, but I understand that it's not just the cost of the parts.

Having an internal power supply requires UL approval which costs a lot of money and delays production for months (+). I would rather pay more and wait longer for a built in power supply, but I get why manufacturers opt for the pre-approved external ones. Dealing with UL sucks and getting products to market faster is generally good.

 

One reason I switched from HW to SW was the crazy things we did with PCB board layouts to get control of all kinds of electrical field disturbances with the power section. Mostly voodoo.

[zxcvbnm098]

Looks like pic #3 is mislabeled "Michael Lehmann Boddicker". Looks like Jerry and Brian Auger to me....

[Al Coda]

Looks like pic #3 is mislabeled "Michael Lehmann Boddicker". Looks like Jerry and Brian Auger to me....

 

 

You beat me ...

 

A.C.

[Tobias Åslund]

I'm also interested in this. It would be a serious omission if there's no expression pedal in ona pro board, that is partially marketed as a four-zone controller. Then again - Casio don't offer expression pedal in any other of there portable pianos or on the XW-P1, which I think is a shame.

 

Mike - could you shed some light on this?

If there is no support for an expression pedal then I think that this will impact on the sales of the PX-5S.

I think Casio will sell loads of PX-5S:s regardless of this, but I think it's a damn shame that they once again ignores the fact that keyboard players use expression pedals. Ok, if this was only a piano, then it might not be so bad, but the PX-5s is also a powerful synth and a 4 zone midi controller. I think any piano & pad/string layer loses a lot of playability if you can't control the pad/string volume with your foot - and I would never play organ without an expression pedal.

 

I realize it's not a simple matter to add expression pedal support at this stage of the development of the PX-5S, but it should have been obvious to Casio to include it from the start - especially since they now call this a pro keyboard. C'mon, even the cheapest Fatar Studiologics have exp pedal support (except from the SL990, I know, but that's really simple...) and many other cheap midi keyboards do - as does Yamaha P-120/140/155 stage pianos. To me - this is a really stupid miss by Casio. Hey - even my early 90's Casio CT470 ToneBank had a volume pedal socket!

[Jaime Chimuelo]

Brotha' Man Mike Martin,

I already put down 10% on the first one to come to town, don;t care how long it takes as I can still get by with PX-3S, but I would love to study the manual while I wait, is there a link somewhere, I can;t seem to find one at Casio.

 

Thanks So Much.

[Mike Martin]

Looks like pic #3 is mislabeled "Michael Lehmann Boddicker". Looks like Jerry and Brian Auger to me....

 

Fixed...sorry

[Sam Mullins]

I think Casio will sell loads of PX-5S:s regardless of this, but I think it's a damn shame that they once again ignores the fact that keyboard players use expression pedals. Ok, if this was only a piano, then it might not be so bad, but the PX-5s is also a powerful synth and a 4 zone midi controller. I think any piano & pad/string layer loses a lot of playability if you can't control the pad/string volume with your foot - and I would never play organ without an expression pedal.

 

I realize it's not a simple matter to add expression pedal support at this stage of the development of the PX-5S, but it should have been obvious to Casio to include it from the start - especially since they now call this a pro keyboard. C'mon, even the cheapest Fatar Studiologics have exp pedal support (except from the SL990, I know, but that's really simple...) and many other cheap midi keyboards do - as does Yamaha P-120/140/155 stage pianos. To me - this is a really stupid miss by Casio. Hey - even my early 90's Casio CT470 ToneBank had a volume pedal socket!

+1...seems a little silly. Otherwise it looks like a very good MIDI controller. I can understand no aftertouch in a weighted controller, but not the omission of the expression pedal. So close.

 

On the other hand, even high end keyboards seem to have some of these odd omissions, i.e things that were pretty basic on even low level keyboards a few years ago. (e.g. Stage 2: no configurable pitch bend range, no capability to pan voices, etc.)

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I can understand no aftertouch in a weighted controller, but not the omission of the expression pedal. So close.

I think sometimes these kinds of "surprising choices" come out of the underlying platform. Like how the RD-64, one of whose chief selling points is narrow width for a weighted board, is almost as long as a 76 because of all the controls being on the left... but they were likely forced into that configuration based on building it around the design/components/architecture of the A88. It isn't cost effective to start from scratch for each new design, companies try to get as much mileage as they can out of the stuff they've already designed and tooled up for. I would guess that the inability to easily work an expression pedal into the PX-5S grows from its repurposing of underlying PX-150/PX-350 design, and they probably just had not allowed for a practical way to add that function when they designed the earlier boards. Still, odd and unfortunate as that shortcoming may be in such a capable multi-zone MIDI controller, I think it's still going to be a great board. If need be, I'll use one of the third-party options mentioned earlier to add at least some pedal control to the rig, I'm sure I can make it work. The combination of that action, the sound palette, the low weight, the shallow footprint, and the easy ability to integrate external sounds makes it irresistible to me... in too many ways, it's just too close to exactly what I've wanted. And I guess I've started to get used to every board having its forehead slapping attributes. ;-)

[voxpops]

I'm on the fence between the PX-5s and the Electro 4 HP. I know that one is nearly 3 times the price of the other, and they excel in different areas, but in my book they occupy a similar slot: a lightweight gigging tool with very good pianos. Has anyone here played both? I didn't fall in love with Casio's acoustic piano emulation on previous models, and there were no EPs of Nord's caliber. Has all that really changed, or are we just basking in NAMM's afterglow right now?

[AnotherScott]

I'm on the fence between the PX-5s and the Electro 4 HP

...

in my book they occupy a similar slot: a lightweight gigging tool with very good pianos.

I'm guessing I'll probably still like Nord's pianos better, but I think I'll like the Casio's EPs better, and more importantly, I'll prefer the action (based on liking the PX-350 action much better than the TP100 action I've played in other boards). And as a single gigging board, it also has the advantage of 88 keys, splits/layers, easy integration of additional sounds from an iPad. So I guess it all comes down to whether the Casio's piano sound is good enough for you.

 

For a nice combo, though, you could put an Electro 4D over the PX-5S and have it all in a still very light and compact setup. The 4D will give you the organ (from an organ-friendly keybed, with drawbars), the Nord sample library (and ability to load your own samples), and even Nord's pianos (which you can drive from the Casio), so you get it all (albeit not all simultaneously).

[Jim Alfredson]

You could always add an expression pedal with this:

 

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

[voxpops]

I think I'll like the Casio's EPs better

Wow, that's some praise for the Casio. To be honest, I couldn't really tell from the videos released thus far whether I'd like them better or not. I'm really hoping for some good sound clips to be uploaded to the Casio PX-5s web page.

[Sam Mullins]

I'm on the fence between the PX-5s and the Electro 4 HP. I know that one is nearly 3 times the price of the other, and they excel in different areas, but in my book they occupy a similar slot: a lightweight gigging tool with very good pianos. Has anyone here played both? I didn't fall in love with Casio's acoustic piano emulation on previous models, and there were no EPs of Nord's caliber. Has all that really changed, or are we just basking in NAMM's afterglow right now?

 

You could get an electro 3 61 and the Px-5s for the price of the electro 4 hp. Of course, you may not want two keyboards...but you would be getting far more for your money.

[Sam Mullins]

You could always add an expression pedal with this:

 

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

 

This is true...not a complete show stopper. At the cost of a little inconvenience and $120.

[galaxy4t]

Hard to tell from only internet audio, however Mike says the electric pianos on the PX-5S are considerably better than anything Casio has offered in the past due to the AiR processor. I only briefly played the PX-150/350 so I don't have an opinion on either as far as sound went. I didn't have headphones with me when I played them although it sounded good through the speakers. Liked what I saw and heard from the PX-5S but I think I would miss the drum loops.

[keyoctave]

Mike,

 

Any plans for a 76 note version of this board with the same action?

[Bif_]

I don't think it's all about profits.

I could be wrong, but I understand that it's not just the cost of the parts.

Having an internal power supply requires UL approval which costs a lot of money and delays production for months.... Dealing with UL sucks and getting products to market faster is generally good.

 

This is true.

 

I would also prefer an internal power supply, but there are a few benefits of the wall wart. It removes weight, helps keep the instrument smaller and removes a heat source.

 

Greg