Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

FKS, I was paying more attention to the organ and I didn't actually play the EP's myself.. The roland rep did a nice demo of the acoustic piano and it sounded very nice, and then he proceeded to demolish it and turn it into some crazy ethereal sounding pad (demonstrating the live effect controls), and when he demo'd the EP's he almost immediatedly started adding effects like tremelo/overdrive which sounded good, but once again then he went a little over the top using the live effects. So I never got to play the EP's and didn't have a lot of time to really get a good sense for them.

 

 

 

[Ekewaka]

FKS, I was paying more attention to the organ and I didn't actually play the EP's myself.. The roland rep did a nice demo of the acoustic piano and it sounded very nice, and then he proceeded to demolish it and turn it into some crazy ethereal sounding pad (demonstrating the live effect controls), and when he demo'd the EP's he almost immediatedly started adding effects like tremelo/overdrive which sounded good, but once again then he went a little over the top using the live effects. So I never got to play the EP's and didn't have a lot of time to really get a good sense for them.

 

 

Eh, rep trying to position VR-09 as an SV-1 killer??

[CEB]

Katsunori san has just did a review of this new Roland thing. I don't know if he has uploaded it yet.

[CEB]

Yes, It is out there.

 

[video:youtube]

[Craig MacDonald]

K,

 

I don't think that's what the Roland Rep was trying to do.. the SV effects are very different from the VR effects (eg I don't think the SV has a ring modulator). They're two very different beasts.. If EP and AP were my thing I would pick up an SV in a minute (personally I love the sound and the feel), but I wouldn't even consider the VR-09 for that.

 

I just think the Rep was doing was trying to appeal to a younger crowd who wants to be able to create some crazy synth sounds, and use the loop capabilities but at the same time have access to traditional organ/piano/synth. My guess is that they think if they don't have these sounds and loop/drum capabilities (including beat box sounds etc) they will exclude a younger market segment.

[Craig MacDonald]

CEB, thanks for posting.. it's a pretty good demo of the sound capabilities of the VR-09..

[CEB]

Ujiie san does the best reviews..... IMO.

[Josh Paxton]

Wow, the organ sounds way better in that video than in any of Roland's own demos. And it does a much better job of showing off the overall capabilities. Thanks for the link! And thanks Craig for your input.

[Ekewaka]

Yep, cool video, especially liked the synth sound overview which I hope is the main reason for my use of this unit. Now I'm really eagerly waiting for my pre-ordered unit to show up.

[Craig MacDonald]

Wow, the organ sounds way better in that video than in any of Roland's own demos. And it does a much better job of showing off the overall capabilities. Thanks for the link! And thanks Craig for your input.

Thank you FKS! Between hearing it in person last Saturday, and this demo, I'm much more confident that it's going to work for me..!

[voxpops]

Thanks to CEB and Craig from me, too - really useful input, and a great demo.

 

For what it's worth, my take on the VR-09 after the demo is that it fills a niche that no other board currently inhabits: i.e. a combination of totally usable sounds across organ, piano and synth coupled with a lightweight chassis and a modest price. Sure, the Electro and Stage 2 have better organ and rotary, plus interchangeable pianos etc., but the Electro lacks a usable synth, and the Stage is way out of the ballpark when it comes to cost. The XW-P1 has an equally good mono synth (maybe better), but its organ and piano sounds fall way short of the VR, in my opinion. Kurzweil products are heavier (read sturdier), and are higher priced, and the competing Yamahas lack drawbars and the user-friendly interface of the VR.

 

I was beginning to get a little concerned that I'd been a bit hasty pre-ordering this thing, but I now feel far more comfortable. I still wonder whether, with its audibly superior organ, the NE4D isn't a better long-term investment, but then I'd be back to bringing a separate synth to some gigs; and since I can already give myself that headache with the Numa Organ plus a stacked synth, it would defeat the object. Also, the pianos sound good enough for the VR to be a lightweight, all-in-one rehearsal board.

 

As far as build quality and action goes, I don't have too many qualms about the thing holding up to regular use - it is a Roland - but I sensed from the demo that the keys are not great and will not really allow for sensitive piano playing - but then that's a challenge on any non-weighted board, including the non-HP Electros.

 

In the end, at the price, and with the range of functionality and good quality sounds, it makes a lot of sense. I hope the PX-5S also lives up to expectations: I would love a two-tier combination that together weighs less than one of my current bottom boards.

[HammondDave]

. I hope the PX-5S also lives up to expectations: I would love a two-tier combination that together weighs less than one of my current bottom boards.

 

 

And they can both be run on batteries! Someone just needs to create a HIwatt that runs on D Cells!

[Josh Paxton]

And they can both be run on batteries! Someone just needs to create a HIwatt that runs on D Cells!

 

I heard a rumor that the next generation Kronos is gonna run on batteries, to avoid the 2.5-minute reboot time if you have a power outage mid-set.

[Outkaster]

Those organ sounds are just not that great. They have no body or girth to them.

[voxpops]

Those organ sounds are just not that great. They have no body or girth to them.

They seem to fall right between the XW-P1 and the Electro in quality - which is right where the price point falls, too.

 

I agree they are not great, but they are usable, IMO. I'm content that when the gig requires minimum gear, the VR will perform adequately.

[Ekewaka]

Those organ sounds are just not that great. They have no body or girth to them.

They seem to fall right between the XW-P1 and the Electro in quality - which is right where the price point falls, too.

 

I agree they are not great, but they are usable, IMO. I'm content that when the gig requires minimum gear, the VR will perform adequately.

 

Add the sound into the band mix including whatever PA quality is available and me thinks mostly the train spotters will shake their heads, not the audience.

[stoken6]

Those organ sounds are just not that great. They have no body or girth to them.

They seem to fall right between the XW-P1 and the Electro in quality - which is right where the price point falls, too.

 

+1. "Adequate" organs imho (based purely on the video samples). Of course my organ standards are probably lower than many here (including Outkaster) - I'm more of a piano guy. Having said that, the XW-P1 organ wouldn't pass my standard.

 

And there is a niche for a clonewheel-capable "do-it-all" $1000 (£800?) board.

 

Regards, Mike.

[Craig MacDonald]

This is my assumption too.. I'm not really a fan of the VK engine (perhaps this is an understatement), but I'm not playing in a jazz trio, I'm playing in a 5 piece classic rock band, so the organ is more part of an ensemble sound than the featured sound (although we do play a lot of Hammond oriented classic rock). While the VK engine always sounds a tad rinky dinky to me, I am expecting that can dial in something that is acceptable using the ipad interface.. AND if not, I'll use it with VB3 (assuming of course that the VR drawbars can be mapped to VB3).

[Craig MacDonald]

Those organ sounds are just not that great. They have no body or girth to them.

They seem to fall right between the XW-P1 and the Electro in quality - which is right where the price point falls, too.

 

+1. "Adequate" organs imho (based purely on the video samples). Of course my organ standards are probably lower than many here (including Outkaster) - I'm more of a piano guy. Having said that, the XW-P1 organ wouldn't pass my standard.

 

And there is a niche for a clonewheel-capable "do-it-all" $1000 (£800?) board.

 

Regards, Mike.

I have to agree that the casio XW-P1 organs are no where near as good as the VK organs, and I would absolutely NOT be happy with the XW-P1 organ, I've heard it through a ventilator and even that wasn't enough to save it..

 

If you listen to the above video.. the organ tone starting at the 1:20 mark gives me hope that I can get a sound that will be acceptable for me! The fact that the VK engine screams in the upper octave is a basic requirement for me, and the VK engine does this.. that's encouraging!

[Outkaster]

Lets face it even if this is a lower priced alternative I would hope they are better than what I saw on the video. On the other hand organ emulation has always been a week point for Roland.

[Craig MacDonald]

Lets face it even if this is a lower priced alternative I would hope they are better than what I saw on the video. On the other hand organ emulation has always been a week point for Roland.

 

I agree that organ emulation has never been Roland's strong point but some love the VK engine! I'm surprised that you would suggest that the other sounds should be better at this price point??!!?? Or are you kidding? The pianos are roland's best samples from their GX instruments and you're getting a very fat sounding Juno style VA synth.. (along with Roland's GM2 voice set). This instrument has some great sounds built into it.

 

Whether or not you liked this video, or not, the VR-09 has some great sounds and great sonic potential for under a grand. I've listened to all the videos and heard the instrument first hand. It sounds very good (again, like yourself, I'm not a fan of the VK organ)

 

[Outkaster]

Craig most of the other stuff I am fine with, I agree.

[Craig MacDonald]

Sorry Outkaster, I misunderstood!

[HammondDave]

Those organ sounds are just not that great. They have no body or girth to them.

They seem to fall right between the XW-P1 and the Electro in quality - which is right where the price falls.

 

Add the sound into the band mix including whatever PA quality is available and me thinks mostly the train spotters will shake their heads, not the audience.

 

There it is again... Hey, the audience can't hear the difference, so why should we care?

 

I have heard some great Hammond players perform on old VK7s and CX3's. Their performances where great, but the organ sound was severely lacking. I wondered why artists of their stature would not insist on better instruments. Probably because their tour managers said "Why lug around a B3 when we can carry this light VK7? The audience

can't tell the difference anyway...."

 

I also find it really interesting that the same cats on this thread who feel the need to defend crappy 15 year old Hammond clone technology are the same ones who must have the latest and greatest clones for "worthy gigs". I just don't know how anyone could go back to that crappy VK engine with all the great alternatives available to us today.

 

But I get it... It's "cheap"....

 

[Craig MacDonald]

 

There it is again... Hey, the audience can't hear the difference, so why should we care?

 

I just find it really interesting that the same cats on this thread who feel the need to defend crappy 15 year old Hammond clone technology are the same ones who must have the latest and greatest clone (Mojo). I just don't know how anyone could go back to that crappy VK engine!

 

 

Dave, I just don't see how this is such a big mystery... Some of the older technology (like CX3) really wasn't so bad, as you well know, and with a Ventilator, it sounds pretty good! I have a mojo, which I love to play, but sometimes it's just not necessary to drag out my double manual Mojo plus my Kronos to perform at a small gig.. it's so much less hassle to just take a single keyboard, and X-stand, and a small monitor.. It's actually kind of enjoyable to focus less on the equipment (setup/teardown) and just have fun performing.

 

I think it's going to be fun to see what I can get away with using this "minimalist" approach.. and figuring out how to make things work with this VR-09.. I certainly enjoyed playing a week ago JUST using my Kronos. If I can't get the Hammond sound I want, I'll use the VR as a controller for VB3, or maybe the VR-09 will end up being something I just use for rehearsals.. who knows.

 

Obviously the VK engine is a step backwards compared to my Mojo, but it's more about the performance.. if I find that the VK engine is so bad that it's completely uninspiring, I will probably not use it. But I'm definately going to try to see if I can get this 12 pound keyboard to work for small gigs.. so shoot me.

 

 

[voxpops]

There it is again... Hey, the audience can't hear the difference, so why should we care?

I don't think that this is the point. Not everyone wants to aim for a perfect facsimile of a Hammond tonewheel (which one, anyway?). I have not yet found one clone that gives me that same visceral response that I used to get when playing the real deal. And sometimes a sound that is not particularly "accurate" can sit better in a particular style of playing or band mix. I actually think that it's more important that the player likes or gets inspired by the sound he's producing than whether the audience is fooled into thinking he's hiding an A100 and twin Leslies under his hat.

 

And if accuracy of fakery is the only standard by which we judge our instruments, the Rhodes would have been out on day one! After all, the audience was never going to believe that that's a real piano.

 

But I get it... It's "cheap"....

It's a reasonably priced instrument that has some fairly unique features. To me, even though I have a stable of more expensive gear, the price is still important. It allows me to experiment with an all-in-one board without dropping crazy amounts of cash. If I like it, great, it will save my arthritic spine. If I don't, then I will lose relatively little - but I expect I can find a use for it, come what may.

[Craig MacDonald]

It's a reasonably priced instrument that has some fairly unique features. To me, even though I have a stable of more expensive gear, the price is still important. It allows me to experiment with an all-in-one board without dropping crazy amounts of cash. If I like it, great, it will save my arthritic spine. If I don't, then I will lose relatively little - but I expect I can find a use for it, come what may.

+1 I don't see how this is so hard to understand.. there's another thread on there the's very timely.. a member who just had back surgery, and he's wondering about future gigging.. these 12 pound instrument will be perfect for him, and it they may help the rest of us avoid surgery ourselves.. I don't mind packing up my A rig for a good gig, but not for a small gig where I don't have the space,and I'm working for peanuts.

[HammondDave]

Friends.. I am not criticizing your choices so no need to get defensive. I could give a shit what anyone plays for their own musical expression.

 

I just would not make such compromises. Especially the ones that end with "The audience cannot tell the difference anyway". That excuse just does not cut it in my book. Artists create the best work possible, regardless of what they believe the audience perceives.

 

[HammondDave]

I don't mind packing up my A rig for a good gig, but not for a small gig where I don't have the space,and I'm working for peanuts.

 

If thats the case, Then why play the gig?

[Craig MacDonald]

I don't mind packing up my A rig for a good gig, but not for a small gig where I don't have the space,and I'm working for peanuts.

 

If thats the case, Then why play the gig?

 

Do I really need to answer this? OK let's be clear, I don't really work for peanuts.. but sometimes we work for a small fee, or "door", and/or a bar tab, and sometimes it's just not a lot of cash, but it's a couple of beers, $50 in my pocket, and I don't have to lug the PA and it's just a really fun intimate place to play for people that love the band.. why not!