Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Joe Muscara]

Casio (a much smaller company) came out with bug fixes almost immediately. And they even have someone dedicated to this forum to monitor user issues so they can quickly respond. Don't see Roland doing the same.

I've been thinking about this (bolded) statement since you made it, Dave. I decided to do some research.

 

According to Wikipedia

 

Casio: 11,336 employees, $4.616 billion revenue (2010)

Roland: 2,699 employees (2010)

 

According to their corporate info pages (and I hope I'm comparing apples to apples here)

 

Casio: ¥48,592 million capital, ¥301,660 million net sales

Roland: ¥9,274 million capital, ¥74,825 million sales

 

Overall, Roland is a much smaller company. That said, I don't know how Casio's EMI division compares to Roland. That would tell how much of Casio is in this business vs. all of Roland.

[Ekewaka]

Take into account that Casio's keyboard division is just one of many divisions inside Casio doing watches, cameras, calculators, printers, mobile phones, POS systems... While Roland is as far as I know solely a music keyboard/effect (BOSS) company.

[voxpops]

I'm not using an iPad, and it would be nice to have some further choices available.

You're not? Why not?

I'll probably get there one day, but I would have preferred that Roland made their editor cross-platform, so I didn't have to go out and buy yet another new device.

I am planning on taking care of this flaw. It will take a little bit of time though...

Good luck with the project, rien! I'll be very interested to hear how it progresses.

[voxpops]

(Edit: It surprised me initially that the VR always starts up in piano mode, which makes me think it was never intended to be primarily an organ. Due to the dearth of (and therefore demand for) low-cost, lightweight, multifunction clonewheels, we on this board have tended to concentrate on its organ features, but a lot of players may find its other sound blocks more useful, depending on their style.)

 

Remember that Roland themselves market the VR-09 as an organ: it is listed in the combo-organ section of their website, along with the VK-8, not in the synth or piano section.

 

That's this marketing that makes us focus on its organ "abilities".

Good point.

[wineandkeyz]

Take into account that Casio's keyboard division is just one of many divisions inside Casio doing watches, cameras, calculators, printers, mobile phones, POS systems... While Roland is as far as I know solely a music keyboard/effect (BOSS) company.

 

They also make computer peripherals like wide-format printers and the like:

 

http://www.roland.com/about/en/business_brand.html

 

(You have to scroll to the bottom of the page.)

[HammondDave]

Casio (a much smaller company) came out with bug fixes almost immediately. And they even have someone dedicated to this forum to monitor user issues so they can quickly respond. Don't see Roland doing the same.

I've been thinking about this (bolded) statement since you made it, Dave. I decided to do some research.

 

According to Wikipedia

 

Casio: 11,336 employees, $4.616 billion revenue (2010)

Roland: 2,699 employees (2010)

 

According to their corporate info pages (and I hope I'm comparing apples to apples here)

 

Casio: ¥48,592 million capital, ¥301,660 million net sales

Roland: ¥9,274 million capital, ¥74,825 million sales

 

Overall, Roland is a much smaller company. That said, I don't know how Casio's EMI division compares to Roland. That would tell how much of Casio is in this business vs. all of Roland.

 

I stand corrected... Thanks Joe!

 

By the way... Just purchased the Casio PX5S.... Will be a nice addition to my studio.

[voxpops]

Casio (a much smaller company) came out with bug fixes almost immediately. And they even have someone dedicated to this forum to monitor user issues so they can quickly respond. Don't see Roland doing the same.

I've been thinking about this (bolded) statement since you made it, Dave. I decided to do some research.

 

According to Wikipedia

 

Casio: 11,336 employees, $4.616 billion revenue (2010)

Roland: 2,699 employees (2010)

 

According to their corporate info pages (and I hope I'm comparing apples to apples here)

 

Casio: ¥48,592 million capital, ¥301,660 million net sales

Roland: ¥9,274 million capital, ¥74,825 million sales

 

Overall, Roland is a much smaller company. That said, I don't know how Casio's EMI division compares to Roland. That would tell how much of Casio is in this business vs. all of Roland.

Although I don't think that the capitalization/sales info is particularly relevant (albeit interesting), I do think Dave makes a good point about the benefit of having a public - and responsive - presence. You only have to spend a little time on the various keyboard forums to understand just how much the input from a rep affects the perceived standing of the company, and people's willingness to trust putting their money into that company's products. Now, forum participants/readers make up only a fraction of the market, but it's a growing fraction, and their purchase decisions may easily influence other buyers indirectly. If you go to see a band play, and they're using Casio products, and they sound good, what's to stop you following suit?

[DulceLabs.com]

Casio (a much smaller company) came out with bug fixes almost immediately. And they even have someone dedicated to this forum to monitor user issues so they can quickly respond. Don't see Roland doing the same.

I've been thinking about this (bolded) statement since you made it, Dave. I decided to do some research.

 

According to Wikipedia

 

Casio: 11,336 employees, $4.616 billion revenue (2010)

Roland: 2,699 employees (2010)

 

According to their corporate info pages (and I hope I'm comparing apples to apples here)

 

Casio: ¥48,592 million capital, ¥301,660 million net sales

Roland: ¥9,274 million capital, ¥74,825 million sales

 

Overall, Roland is a much smaller company. That said, I don't know how Casio's EMI division compares to Roland. That would tell how much of Casio is in this business vs. all of Roland.

 

I'm sure Mike could shed some light on

this (if he can disclose that), but I have

a feeling Casio's EMI division is far smaller than

Roland.. but that may very

well change in the future.

 

This site has a few stats...

http://www.musictrades.com/global.html

[Mike Martin]

Smaller how? In sales? As music company I would expect that Roland is larger as they do drums, effects, pedals, software (Cakewalk) and more. As keyboard/digital piano company, Casio is the second largest in the world.

[Josh Paxton]

I have the iPad, some apps and an interface.. Looking to create an alternate gig rig for smaller venues. Maybe the VR-09 and an iPad for some alternate sounds, like minimoog and mellotron etc!

 

Instead of the VR, I was almost tempted to go with an SK1 + iPad rig for my cover band -- SK for organ, AP, EP and Clav, iPad for synth, strings, brass, etc. What stopped me was that in practice, such a rig is irritatingly more complex than it sounds.

 

First you need somewhere to put the iPad, so that means either a mic stand clip, a second tier with a shelf, or something separate like a stool or small table. And it would have to be where I can easily reach it, but it won't get in anyone else's way or be in danger of getting knocked over (on an already crowded stage). Oh, and I'd probably want to move it somewhere else during set breaks to keep it from getting swiped, as has happened to numerous people I know.

 

Then there's the matter of going from one audio source to two. The SK doesn't have audio inputs, so that means either running two lines to the house, getting a mixer, or using something like the Alesis IO dock. Of course I'd probably want either a mixer or an IO Dock anyway, because when I've used the iPad in the past, I found the lack of a physical, easy-to-grab volume knob to be a problem. So there's one more piece of hardware and however many more cables.

 

Then there's all the programming involved. I'd have to set up synchronized patches between two machines that were not designed to play nicely together, and get it so I can switch between them instantly and effortlessly, without worrying about screwing something up in the process. That's a sizable chunk of initial effort (way more than with a single board), and probably an increased amount of on-the-fly futzing around too.

 

Add all those together, and suddenly it starts to sound way less appealing than a simple grab-and-go board. There are situations where it would be worth it, but for the gigs I'm doing, the simplicity of VR was the clear winner.

[HammondDave]

 

First you need somewhere to put the iPad, so that means either a mic stand clip, a second tier with a shelf, or something separate like a stool or small table. And it would have to be where I can easily reach it....

 

Hey You!

 

[video:youtube]

[HammondDave]

Or better yet...

 

[video:youtube]

[DulceLabs.com]

Smaller how? In sales? As music company I would expect that Roland is larger as they do drums, effects, pedals, software (Cakewalk) and more. As keyboard/digital piano company, Casio is the second largest in the world.

 

Yes in overall music instrument and music

instrument accessories sales and the number

of staff that work on all of our goodies.

 

I was also thinking along the lines of

sales and staff as it relates to

the "pro" market... I have a feeling Casio

is going to explode in this area given

your last two product offerings.

[Ekewaka]

 

Add all those together, and suddenly it starts to sound way less appealing than a simple grab-and-go board. There are situations where it would be worth it, but for the gigs I'm doing, the simplicity of VR was the clear winner.

 

IK Multimedia mic clip stand for iPd. Small cheap mixer. Maybe you need more more audio cable compared with a VR-09 plus keyboard of course with USB. Might be about one=two minute longer setup time with an iPad versus a VR-09. Plus you could use the iPad with Set List Maker. I think more and more iOS apps now support multi-app playback mode.

[Craig MacDonald]

 

Add all those together, and suddenly it starts to sound way less appealing than a simple grab-and-go board. There are situations where it would be worth it, but for the gigs I'm doing, the simplicity of VR was the clear winner.

 

IK Multimedia mic clip stand for iPd. Small cheap mixer. Maybe you need more more audio cable compared with a VR-09 plus keyboard of course with USB. Might be about one=two minute longer setup time with an iPad versus a VR-09. Plus you could use the iPad with Set List Maker. I think more and more iOS apps now support multi-app playback mode.

The VR-09 seems to me to be a much simpler set up! Why carry a mixer, extra audio cables, midi/USB cable, iPad and stand, connector and interface.. Nothing simpler than a keyboard, x stand, amp, one set of audio cables and pedal(s). The VR will just look slicker and I'm still not absolutely sure that the iPad is ready for prime time music use yet.. Too easy for cables and connectors to come loose.. My opinion of course.

[HammondDave]

Craig! Those guys above performing "I'm a Believer" are not having any issues... Looks to me like the iPad IS ready for "prime time"!!!!!

[Ekewaka]

The VR-09 seems to me to be a much simpler set up! Why carry a mixer, extra audio cables, midi/USB cable, iPad and stand, connector and interface.. Nothing simpler than a keyboard, x stand, amp, one set of audio cables and pedal(s). The VR will just look slicker and I'm still not absolutely sure that the iPad is ready for prime time music use yet.. Too easy for cables and connectors to come loose.. My opinion of course.

 

I used to be worried about too many cables and so on but solved the issue with a tight packing checkup list and a simplified setup of carry-on boxes. So having a standalone keyboard or multiple ones is not a big deal any more. Basically it's all about organizing skills, something most musicians including me are not good with. Anyway, just my opinion but using an iPad for live use with the additional cables being an issue is a no-brainer for me.

 

As for me not using an iPad. The reason is that I'm using a MBP with MainStage.

 

PS: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2497077#Post2497077

[DulceLabs.com]

Taking out all the barbs, I have found this

thread very informative. I really enjoy hearing

the good, bad and ugly of all gear and the various

ways to get around issues. I am in the process of

getting of bringing in some new gear, so I appreciate

all the different options I am being presented.

[Josh Paxton]

IK Multimedia mic clip stand for iPd. Small cheap mixer. Maybe you need more more audio cable compared with a VR-09 plus keyboard of course with USB. Might be about one=two minute longer setup time with an iPad versus a VR-09. Plus you could use the iPad with Set List Maker.

 

An awesome and wholly viable rig... for a different environment than the one I'm dealing with. For the particular needs of this particular gig, it's hard to imagine a better match than the VR.

[voxpops]

IK Multimedia mic clip stand for iPd. Small cheap mixer. Maybe you need more more audio cable compared with a VR-09 plus keyboard of course with USB. Might be about one=two minute longer setup time with an iPad versus a VR-09. Plus you could use the iPad with Set List Maker.

 

An awesome and wholly viable rig... for a different environment than the one I'm dealing with. For the particular needs of this particular gig, it's hard to imagine a better match than the VR.

Isn't that the whole point? Only you can know what works for you. Other people can make suggestions as to how to achieve a particular end, but we all have to deal with different circumstances: environmental, anatomical, financial, experiential, and even psychological. There's no one size fits all.

[brenner13]

I gig standing. Two-tier ProLine X-stand. VR09 on top, keys tilted downward a bit; doesn't move around at all even with exuberent playing. Fantom X7 on the bottom tier has a nice empty spot above the pitch stick that's the perfect size for the iPad. A faux-leather iPad cover sticks nicely to the aluminum (might eventually do some velcro).

Camera connection takes USB from the VR09 to accesses the Roland app and controls synths in the iPad. Headphone jack 1/8" mini runs stereo iPad sound to the VR09 1/8" stereo audio input. Have to use the iPad's rocker vol as the VR's aux input level is not adustable. VR's L&R goes to the Fantom's audio input that has a dedicated aux input vol knob on the top panel. Fantom's L&R audio goes strait into QSC K12, that can run XLR's stereo to the house; no mixer required.

Yep, need to start taking the tablet with me during breaks. Only two cords to connect.

[Craig MacDonald]

I gig standing. Two-tier ProLine X-stand. VR09 on top, keys tilted downward a bit; doesn't move around at all even with exuberent playing. Fantom X7 on the bottom tier has a nice empty spot above the pitch stick that's the perfect size for the iPad. A faux-leather iPad cover sticks nicely to the aluminum (might eventually do some velcro).

Camera connection USB from the VR09 accesses the Roland app and controls synths in the iPad. Headphone jack 1/8" mini runs stereo iPad sound to the VR09 1/8" stereo audio input. Have to use the iPad's rocker vol as the VR's aux input level is not adustable. VR's L&R goes to the Fantom's audio input that has a dedicated aux input vol knob on the top panel. Fantom's L&R audio goes strait into QSC K12, that can run XLR's stereo to the house; no mixer required.

Yep, need to start taking the tablet with me during breaks. Just two cords to connect.

 

I forgot about the 1/8th input on the VR-09, so as you point out, no external mixer is required for the iPad! I have the Griffin, Studio connect interface sitting beside me.. just waiting to hook up my iPad to it and get started, however I've been a bit sidetracked on the VR-09 over the last few weeks. I have the iRig Midi interface too and it's crap (my opinon of course).. it doesn't seem to seat well in the iPad, and some apps work with it and some don't (suprisingly none of the IK apps work and it's an IK device).. So I'm hoping for a bit better results with the Griffin.

 

I'm particularly interested in adding mellotron strings and mini-moog to my gig rig, and the VR-09+ipad may be the perfect way to accomplish this.

[To B3]

Anybody experimented with the audio input of the VR-09 when using a 2 keyboard rig? For example, audio out from the other keyboard (via a 1/4 to 1/8 inch mono cable) into the Audio input of the the VR-09.

 

Does it eliminate the necessity of a sub mixer and turns it possible not to require an extra input on the FOH? Does the audio passes through the VR-09 without modifications (like on a true bypass pedal) or does it get processed or get something lost somehow?

 

I'm thinking that it would be a nice solution if I want to use my NE2 along with a VR-09, with a single input amp or a crowded FOH mixer... Any thoughts or experience with this?

[Craig MacDonald]

Anybody experimented with the audio input of the VR-09 when using a 2 keyboard rig? For example, audio out from the other keyboard (via a 1/4 to 1/8 inch mono cable) into the Audio input of the the VR-09.

 

Does it eliminate the necessity of a sub mixer and turns it possible not to require an extra input on the FOH? Does the audio passes through the VR-09 without modifications (like on a true bypass pedal) or does it get processed or get something lost somehow?

 

I'm thinking that it would be a nice solution if I want to use my NE2 along with a VR-09, with a single input amp or a crowded FOH mixer... Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

ToB3, I have 1/8" stereo to Stereo 1/4" cable sitting here so I'll give this a try once I set up my keys (they're still packed up after my Saturday night gig), so maybe later today and I will let you know how it works.. BTW, not sure why you said mono? I think the VR-09 input is 1/8 stereo, if I'm not mistaken, so why not keep it in stereo?

 

If it works well, I could leave my mixer at home if I take the VR-09 and my Kronos (which is what I played on Saturday night)..

[To B3]

If it's stereo, it would require an Y cable from the other keyboard into the 1/8 input of the VR-09, right? I said mono cause I play in mono, just that

[Craig MacDonald]

I happen to have a stereo Y cable (which I bought once to take the output of a iPod into my mixer for a private party between sets).. so I'll give this a try when I get things set up again!!

[To B3]

Excelent. If you can, test it too with the mono out of the other keyboard into the stereo IN of the VR-09, you know, just to see what it happens in terms of phase cancelling, loss of volume things like that. Looking forward to your impressions.

[Craig MacDonald]

ToB3.

 

So good news bad news.. I tested the input and initially it was incredibly noisy when I plugged in my Kronos into my VR-09.. It sounded like a ground loop so I lifted the ground on the Kronos and it made a fairly dramatic difference.. but the normally pristine output of the VR-09 was quite a bit noisier than normal.. however when I wiggle my audio cable, the noise changes (with some noticable crackling) so I'm not going to pass judgement on the VR-09 audio input quite yet, I'll try another cable, but that will have to be another day.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

KEYBOARD MAGAZINE 07.2013 - Roland V-Combo VR-09 - KEY BUY AWARD

 

I just received my Keyboard Magazine for this month, and featured is a pretty indepth review of the VR-09.. I haven't read the whole thing yet but I thought I would report the summaries..

 

CONCLUSIONS

 

The VR-09 just may be the ultimate what-you-see-is-what-you-get keyboard. It has a consistently playable and engaging sound library; a bonehead-easy user interface for splitting, layering, and editing; and convincing organ and rotary modelling - all in a seemingly impossible 12-pound package. We think of it as an ideal first professional keyboard" that will remain quite welcome as your second pro keyboard when you do get that weighted stage piano or workstation. Then there's the price, which is extremely low for something that can satisfy your drawbar pulling desires, cover your PCM-based piano, EP, synth, and other sound needs at the same time, and sound good at all of it. Verdict: The price-performance ratio of the V-Combo VR-09 earns it our Key Buy Award.

 

BOTTOM LINE

 

While the Roland VR-09 is not the only "Swiss Army Knife" keyboard, it's ease of use, startling lightness and low price make it stand way out from the pack.

 

 

Pretty good review, and a key buy award, that's an pretty glowing endoresement from the magazine.

 

If there's any other tidbits of interest that I note when I read it I will post them as well.

[Ken Beaumont]

While I didn't need a magazine to tell me I made a good decision for my needs, I can't wait to get my issue and give it a read.