eric Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Kudos to Hammond for continuing to learn from the Nord playbook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I am sure Scott has a reason and can answer that good question... I already imagine what the answer is ... "because one of the extra voices is a clav." A.C. He would be accurate (and justified) if he said that, in my opinion. Not only is that the best hardware clav I have ever heard or used, but I think it might be the strongest voice in that machine, as much as I like the organ. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I am sure Scott has a reason and can answer that good question... I already imagine what the answer is ... "because one of the extra voices is a clav." A.C. He would be accurate (and justified) if he said that, in my opinion. Not only is that the best hardware clav I have ever heard or used, but I think it might be the strongest voice in that machine, as much as I like the organ. They need to package that clav sound into a 1/19th rack module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Having any other top key than C on any clonewheel is just... Strange! Another opportunity missed for 76 keys A-C, (still) the perfect layout for organ and piano... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Kudos to Hammond for continuing to learn from the Nord playbook! A that's some funny shit. Exactly what I thought. Has only taken them around a decade or so. www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 He would be accurate (and justified) if he said that, in my opinion. Not only is that the best hardware clav I have ever heard or used, but I think it might be the strongest voice in that machine, as much as I like the organ. That´s correct, but I tell you, when I owned the original Clavinet D6 in the past, I missed at least the low E already. So, if we could get a 73 keys E-E keyboard,- the clav´s range would be included (as Another Scott already mentioned above) and it would cover the range of a Rhodes 73 as well as the 61 keys of a single organ manual. I´ve read the manual and im impressed how much MIDI is offered. That makes it a ideal top board on a 2nd tier over a 88 weighted key keyboard. The only restriction w/ 73 keys is for acoustic piano which could be easily triggered by a bottom keyboard. Now it´s up what you want as a lowest key on a single manual organ, what this instrument really is,- and me personally prefers a C. If we have C-C, the 4 highest keys for Rhodes 73 would be missed p.ex., but my experience is I used these keys rarely w/ the real Rhodes,- and there´s MIDI (like for the acoustic piano). Now one could say "there´s the SK-1",- but w/ an extended keyboard range (61 keys vs 73 keys) and as a top keyboard w/ masterkeyboard/MIDI abilities,- I could do better splits compared to the SK-1. Delaware Dave mentioned I wouldn´t buy one anyway,- but that´s not the reality. A 73 H/S SK keyboard C-C would be the ideal replacement for my Yammi KX76 on top of my MK80, had extra sounds, FX, is an organ w/ waterfall keys in a multi keyboard rig and I´d only lose 3 low keys vs my KX76. So,- I bite into my ass for they made it F-F. It´s really sad. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Having any other top key than C on any clonewheel is just... Strange! Another opportunity missed for 76 keys A-C, (still) the perfect layout for organ and piano... 73 waterfall keys, C-C, would be the best compromise replacement for my aged Yammy KX76 and as a top keyboard including organ and extra sounds. The SK has good MIDI implementation. I don´t play acoustic piano on a semi weighted waterfall keybed anyway, so it´s not a biggy losing low keys A, b-flat and b,- at least for me. There´s the NUMA w/ that keybed, but I doesn´t offer the MIDI implementation a SK has. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I've heard enough of the SK-1 clav and piano. I'll bitch about not having an 88 now until I have time to do more bitching. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 73 waterfall keys, C-C, would be the best compromise replacement for my aged Yammy KX76 and as a top keyboard including organ and extra sounds. I'd miss the low keys. Not nescessarily A, but B and Bb. They're great when playing synth bass. Then again, on a Hammond that might be totally irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I already imagine what the answer is ... "because one of the extra voices is a clav." He would be accurate (and justified) if he said that, in my opinion. I don't think that's an accurate/justified reason to go F-to-F (which was the question), since going C-to-C would still encompass the full original Clav span, while providing the additional advantages of a low E for LH bass, a high C for typical organ orientation. Learjeff has mentioned elsewhere how Nord can't go E-to-E because Fatar doesn't make the properly shaped low E for that keyboard design, and it probably is the same problem for Hammond. They do make all the necessary keys for C-to-C (because the 61 is C-to-C), so I've wondered what the reason is that they can't do that. Maybe it has something to do with the available underlying keybed structures. F-to-F just seems too goofy for both these companies to be choosing it without being "forced" into it! Having any other top key than C on any clonewheel is just... Strange! I agree. I'm really curious about the 25 pound 88. Since piano is not the board's strength, I'm hoping that the 88 might use the same unweighted action as the 61. There haven't been too many unweighted 88s, and I know a lot of people thought quite highly of the Roland RS9. For a drawbar model, I'd certainly rather see that than another board based on the light but full weighted Fatar TP100 which I think is pretty bad for organ even as weighted actions go. I actually really like the idea of a lightweight 88 with an organ-friendly action to put on the second tier. You could do LH bass and still have 57 of the full 61 keys available for organ (allowing for the 2-octave-from-low-E bass span that I mentioned elsewhere). Or have that much more real estate available for 3-way splits. And especially since the 73 does not have a low E, an unweighted 88 could be the answer here, for all of us who bemoan that F-to-F layout. You even get your high C on the organ back again. Though it still wouldn't be my "ideal" 2nd tier board unless they added pitch/mod wheels and aftertouch, and the ability to create splits where one zone doesn't have to be organ, and perhaps some enhancements to its ability to integrate and select external sounds, though it looks like what it has isn't too bad to begin with. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Having played Electro 73s for many years I can deal with the keyboard. But HS REALLY needs to enable users to split the organ sound from the other sounds with a global button push, or at least at the patch level. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitenoise Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I wonder how Clavi will react. Now the people who wanted 73 keys hammond clone would certainly choose Hammond SK1 73 as it has an option to split the Hammond sound and the extra voices. It also has physical drawbars. The only thing that was preventing some people to choose Hammond SK over Nord Electro was lack of 73 keys option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloner Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I'm hoping that the 88 might use the same unweighted action as the 61. There haven't been too many unweighted 88s, I actually really like the idea of a lightweight 88 with an organ-friendly action to put on the second tier. You could do LH bass and still have 57 of the full 61 keys available for organ Here, here! I think an 88 note unweighted waterfall keyboard would be fabulous! Cloner Yamaha DX7S, Ensoniq ESQ-1, Yamaha HX-3, Clavinova CLP-300, PSR-740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Having played Electro 73s for many years I can deal with the keyboard. But HS REALLY needs to enable users to split the organ sound from the other sounds with a global button push, or at least at the patch level. If you mean being able to change EVs without changing the organ setup, that can be done. The Patch Load parameters allow the organ parts to not be called up when a new patch is selected. I have the 10 buttons on mine set for 10 EVs. The organ doesn't change when going from one to another. The Patch Load parameters are Global so the settings affect all patches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 The only thing that was preventing some people to choose Hammond SK over Nord Electro was lack of 73 keys option. I rather doubt that Nord is selling zero 61-key Electros. They still have many advantages over Hammond that will appeal to some people, despite Hammond's advantages over Nord. The pianos are much better, the sample library is much more extensive than Hammond's extra voices, plus you can even load your own samples into it. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Having played Electro 73s for many years I can deal with the keyboard. But HS REALLY needs to enable users to split the organ sound from the other sounds with a global button push, or at least at the patch level. If you mean being able to change EVs without changing the organ setup, that can be done. The Patch Load parameters allow the organ parts to not be called up when a new patch is selected. I have the 10 buttons on mine set for 10 EVs. The organ doesn't change when going from one to another. The Patch Load parameters are Global so the settings affect all patches No, I mean the Nord ability to assign organ only to one output and all other sounds to another input. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 No, I mean the Nord ability to assign organ only to one output and all other sounds to another input. You could use the 8-pin output, but that means more stuff and cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Let the bitching begin. The fuckin keyboard just came out and people are complaining. Who peed in your Cheerios this morning, Jason? Sorry Eric. I get a little incensed (Its the New York/Italian thing) . Its like the movies now, a trailer comes out for a new movie and its bashed before its even screened by the fanboys. Its the downside of the internet. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Here, here! I think an 88 note unweighted waterfall keyboard would be fabulous! Nice, it is not a weighted action! The Hammond.eu site calls it semi-weighted. http://www.hammondsuzuki.com/images/sk188-01.png Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I know I cannot tell from that top view, but the keys don't like like waterfall to me. Does Fatar (supplier of the SK-1 61 waterfall keyboard IIRC) make a waterfall keyboard larger than 61 keys? "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 C to C with 44 reversed colored keys on the bottom might be neat. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieP_MechE Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I know I cannot tell from that top view, but the keys don't like like waterfall to me. Does Fatar (supplier of the SK-1 61 waterfall keyboard IIRC) make a waterfall keyboard larger than 61 keys? All non-HP Electro 73's have a waterfall keyboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Does Fatar (supplier of the SK-1 61 waterfall keyboard IIRC) make a waterfall keyboard larger than 61 keys? All non-HP Electro 73's have a waterfall keyboard As does the Numa Organ... which is C to C. Which makes me even more baffled that the SK1-73 is F-to-F instead of the much more sensible (for both organ and LH bass) C-to-C. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 $2395 MAP for the 73 matches Nord, but it looks like the 88 is going to be rather pricey at a $2995 MAP. That thousand dollar premium over the 61 looks a little hard to swallow to me. Maybe they figure, if you want an 88 key semiweighted clonewheel, they are the only game in town. But boy, if all you really want is that low E, a grand is a lot to pay for a key, ;-) Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Sk2 has 122 keys. Forget this. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloner Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Sk2 has 122 keys. Forget this. Well if the MAP on the 88 key is $100 more than the SK2, I'm definitely leaning toward getting the SK2. Cloner Yamaha DX7S, Ensoniq ESQ-1, Yamaha HX-3, Clavinova CLP-300, PSR-740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloner Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Here, here! I think an 88 note unweighted waterfall keyboard would be fabulous! Nice, it is not a weighted action! The Hammond.eu site calls it semi-weighted. Ouch! Semi-weighted always makes me cringe - too traumatized from when Kurzweil first came out with their K1000 series 20 years ago. Cloner Yamaha DX7S, Ensoniq ESQ-1, Yamaha HX-3, Clavinova CLP-300, PSR-740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Sk2 has 122 keys. Forget this. Interesting point. The idea of a semi weight action seemed appealing until Cloner mentioned the K1000. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Sk2 has 122 keys. Forget this. Well if the MAP on the 88 key is $100 more than the SK2, I'm definitely leaning toward getting the SK2. If you can deal with the added weight and bulk of the SK2, and the perhaps questionable ergonomics/aesthetics of putting a double manual organ on top of an 88, that could be preferable. Or, at that point, a Mojo! (Though the Hammond does have more in the way of extra voices and MIDI controller functions.) Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Ouch! Semi-weighted always makes me cringe - too traumatized from when Kurzweil first came out with their K1000 series 20 years ago. There are many semi-weighted designs, and they can feel very different from each other. In this case, I assume it will be the same action as on the 61-key SK1, which I believe is the same semi-weighted action Nord uses on the 61-key Electro (though Nord adjusts it to be more tightly sprung). The Roland Jupiter 50/80 are semi-weighted, and I think they are excellent. The Kurzweil PC3 and SP4-7 are semi-weighted, and I don't like them at all. So try it first. For organ, I've found that semi-weighteds can be both some of the best and some of the worst actions you can get! Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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