George88 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I want a Korg Krome 88 but it doesn't have sympathetic string resonance. I have a Nord Piano 88 (for sale in the Classifieds above) and it does, but I'm guessing that it has a psychacoustic effect: It's hard to perceive it in real time. I would use it on demo recordings after having been using Ivory 2 for about a year. I would appreciate any input as to whether or not sympathetic resonance is an important or even decision making component to buying a digital piano/keyboard and whether or not anyone can hear the difference. Thanks for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would ignore most of the marketing speak about things like sympathetic string resonance. An owner of a Steinway C might have some opinions about what that means and I think we're a long way away from approaching that in digital piano land. It's just plain impossible to do with sampling and modeling has a long way to go. Call me when I can step on the damper pedal, holler into the piano and hear the same thing I hear when I do that with a real piano. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Digital pianos that have sympathetic resonance seem to sound more "lively." While I doubt it is perceptible in a band mix, it may be in a more exposed setting. It may be something that contributes more to the player's experience than the listener's experience. "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikecorbett Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Have you demoed the Krome? What did it sound like to you? Why are you changing axe? The action on the Krome isn't favored by many who have tried it... As for your original question, I think sympathetic resonance is only important if you feel one model plays better or worse because of its presence or lack of. We are all slave's to our brain chemistry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George88 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have tried the Krome and it feels better than my M-Audio Oxygen 88 (current studio controller). I want something with piano/wurly/strings/synth that won't break the bank. Stage 2 seems like a clear winner but the cost is so high that I can't rationalize a purchase. The Krome piano sounded good in the store, and while the feel left a lot to be desired, it wasn't as bad as Kurzweil. The Nord Piano is really nice but I don't need it if I have the Krome. Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Call me when I can step on the damper pedal, holler into the piano and hear the same thing I hear when I do that with a real piano. Picky? A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogholic Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Been playing a Nord E3 for like 18 months. Not long ago I tried the Nord Stage 2 with the same piano sounds as my NE3. The added "long release" and 2 gen string resonance on the Stage 2 really made a difference in a solo setting. More realistic soundwise and playing wise IMO. How it works in a band situation, I don´t know. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 It depends on the person and the context (band and music) as others have said. In band contexts my piano patch can crossfade the string resonance effect, at one extreme for "exposed" bits where I like to pedal and play in a romantic style. When the band is blowing, you don't want that, it's just going to muddy the waters, so I am running with a relatively dry sound. The resonance has been important to me for solo bits. Perhaps its a bit of a crutch, just like over-pedaling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non ce futuro Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I would use it on demo recordings after having been using Ivory 2 for about a year. I use Ivory 1 and I really doubt Krome's piano is going to be anywhere near Ivory... If you're using it at home, why would you want to replace Ivory by Krome? Wouldn't it be better to find a good 88 controller (probably is not that difficult to find a better action than the Krome's, if one can believe the reports...) cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I want a Korg Krome 88 but it doesn't have sympathetic string resonance. I have a Nord Piano 88 (for sale in the Classifieds above) and it does, but I'm guessing that it has a psychacoustic effect: It's hard to perceive it in real time. If you've been using a DP with sr but say it's "hard to perceive it" then it seems like it shouldn't matter to you. I would appreciate any input as to whether or not sympathetic resonance is an important or even decision making component to buying a digital piano/keyboard and whether or not anyone can hear the difference. Taking the first quote of yours into account, it sounds to me like you're saying "I don't really hear the difference now, but maybe I'm missing something something I might realize down the road and then I would regret not having it." I can tell you that it's entirely possible that this would be the case. I had no idea what sr was back in the days I was happily playing my Roland MKS-20 piano module, later on my Roland XP-50 with the Session expansion card. Now, I can definitely hear when sr is absent. SR, along with pedal resonance, the mechanical noise of the pedal mechanism, release samples, etc... all of these things make playing my DP plugin a satisfying experience. All of these things were absent in my previous pianos and I never missed them! So I think it's a tough call for you. If most of your playing or recording is in situations where the piano sound is not very exposed such as groups with drums then it might not really matter. For myself, I want my piano sound to be as real as possible, with as few compromises as I can deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George88 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think that it is percievable, but have wondered if it might be a psycho acoustic effect. I think the best way to judge would be for me to record the Nord piano with and without and listen to the difference. I'm only using this on recording sessions away from home. At home, I use my real piano. The three digital pianos I have used over the last two years have been the Nord, Roland RD700nx, and Ivory II. They all have SR. I'll post the two examples so we can check it out. Now, how do I do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think that it is percievable, but have wondered if it might be a psycho acoustic effect. Whether it's actual samples added in, or created by convolution, the sr sounds are definitely an added dimension, so I wouldn't call them a psychoacoustic effect. That implies something that's not really there but sounds like it is. I think the best way to judge would be for me to record the Nord piano with and without and listen to the difference. I'm only using this on recording sessions away from home. At home, I use my real piano. My perspective is more about what I'm hearing as I play. After the fact, it shouldn't really matter you can always evaluate different pianos and replace as needed, assuming you're recording midi as well as audio. After a session at a studio, I've taken my midi performance back home, tweaked it and rendered new audio files that I shoot back to the studio via FTP or Dropbox. The three digital pianos I have used over the last two years have been the Nord, Roland RD700nx, and Ivory II. They all have SR. I'll post the two examples so we can check it out. Now, how do I do that? If all the pianos you use have SR then I suspect you'll hear the difference between SR and no SR. Whether it matters to you is another question, as it's a rather subtle component of the sound but you'll know whether or not it's there every time you hear it! . For solo piano recordings I couldn't imagine not having SR, as well as all the other goodies that come with the higher-end sampled pianos. As far as posting examples here I've never done it on this forum but you should be able to link to files on Dropbox or Soundcloud. Hopefully someone else more knowledgeable will jump in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 .... For solo piano recordings I couldn't imagine not having SR, as well as all the other goodies that come with the higher-end sampled pianos. ... This! For band stuff not so much because the piano isn't as naked.. My home recording setup is becoming a money pit. This is the next thing I feel compelled to spend money on. Bach and Scarlatti with that Baroque tendency towards even dynamics sounds too machine like without the resonance from a real piano harp and soundboard. My 2 personal projects right now are a Joplin recording project and Baroque/Classical project. I don't notice the problem are badly with the Joplin as I do with the Bach, Scarlatti and Haydn stuff I am laying down. FWIW - Good piano mics are expensive but if I moved all the recording stuff into the living room the wife would shoot me. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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