Lachnit FLK keyboard -- the ultimate 88-key MIDI controller?

[Mark Schmieder]

I did a search over two years and nothing came up, so if this has been discussed before, probably something was misspelled or overly abbreviated.

 

I saw something new on Pianoteq's website under the promotionals tab in the User Area: a discount on a new MIDI controller (apparently with Vienna Instruments Bosendorfer sounds built-in) built by former Bosendorfer engineers and meant to be the most piano-like experience of any controller to date.

 

Unfortunately, it is hard to find information, but here are some links that should help keep track of progress, and those who are fluent in German may find additional information (the company is Austrian) not yet translated:

 

http://www.flkeys.at/Products.html

 

http://www.flkeys.at/Reviews.html

 

http://members.aon.at/fl/engl.htm

 

http://www.departure.at/en/funded_projects/fl_keys__a_new_kind_of_keyboard

 

There are two versions of the MIDI keyboard/controller, but I'm not quite clear on all of the features or differences -- though it does look that tri-pedals are supported (not sure if they also make those, expect you to use Fatar's and thereby only get momentary vs. continuous or tri-state values, or can use Roland's for the RD-series).

[rfichoke]

I just Googled "pianoteq promotional lachnit flk" and this page was the only hit!

 

I saw this mentioned in the Pianoteq promotional tab too and started looking at it. It looks interesting, but I think it's only available in Austria and Germany for now, based on the website.

 

The last link you posted makes it look like they're thinking about mass-producing them and marketing them, so maybe they'll offer it overseas at some point. I'd love to try playing one in a showroom at some point.

[non ce futuro]

Has a double pedal unit with continuous damper pedal... Haven't seen any reference to vienna instruments sounds built-in (but my german is pretty basic)-except the article above that states the VSL Boesendorfer imperial with 7 layers is built in

 

It's not cheap, though! The FLK studio for 2013 is 3990, and the Lachnit 97 (with the 97 keys of the imperial Bösie is 5290...

 

And unfortunately I'm sure is going to be really difficult to try the action of this keyboards

[Al Coda]

There are two versions of the MIDI keyboard/controller, but I'm not quite clear on all of the features or differences -- though it does look that tri-pedals are supported (not sure if they also make those, expect you to use Fatar's and thereby only get momentary vs. continuous or tri-state values, or can use Roland's for the RD-series).

 

Standard version:

No Pitch and Mod Wheels

 

Studio version:

Pitch and Mod wheels and more superior finished keys, feel-wise and according to specs of Vienna Concert Grand standard:

moulded, dressed to size and polished key edges,

key surface smoothed/honed and polished,

key travel fine adjustment to 11mm,

trigger point fine adjustment @2/3 of key travel,-

 

All manually done per key and individual controller keyboard.

 

All the other specs are common for both keyboards.

 

Most important is the individual per key and manually adjusted light sensor technique replacing rubber contact strips like these in normal (Fatar) keybeds in conjunction w/ the special developed measurement electronics.

 

The result is 32.000 values measured from the trigger point to key fully down, linearized to internal 256 MIDI values, followed by the user adjustable dynamics knob/electronics and velocity curve knobs.

 

Unlike normal MIDI keyboard controllers realizing velocity curves by shifting MIDI values and/or compressing the curve and consequently minimizing the MIDI dynamic range,- even at the extremest settings of these continuousely and on-the-fly user adjustable knobs, the full MIDI range of 0 - 127 at the MIDI Out is always available.

Like on a grand piano, very slow key movements don´t produce a sound.

 

There are 4 banks of 4 presets to store your custom parameter settings permanently and these are MIDI switchable by MIDI PrgChange commands.

Unit recognizes standard MIDI CC pedals automatically,- 2-10K Ohms for MIDI CC controllers like expression pedals.

Damper works w/ continuous half damper pedals.

Stereo 1/4" jack for double pedal and stereo 1/4" jack for CC-pedal.

Specs and polarity are in the manual.

 

MIDI trio, USB & LAN connectors.

USB Plug´n Play shows the instrument as an audio device on the computer, installing the driver shows it as a labeled MIDI device,- functionality is the same.

Interesting there´s LAN,- Copperlan Manager (Midi over LAN) might recognize it as a MIDI device in the overall network.

 

Up to now,- there´s no expansion board w/ sampled Boesendorfer piano build in.

That seemed to be a part of the prototype/product developement.

Can be they come up w/ something more improved later again.

 

Prices:

Standard model = 2.990.- EUR

Studio model = 3.490.- EUR (500.- for the wheels and the extras)

20% austrian VAT included.

 

If you´re a pro, there are ways not to pay this amount of VAT and pay the VAT of your country instead.

International Value added tax identification number (VATIN) required AFAIK.

 

Interesting product IMO,- not cheap, but they explain it by not manufacturing in XYZ (or china),- all parts come from hi quality manufacturers from austria and italy and it´s hand-made (assembly and adjustments) individually for each keyboard.

 

Lachnit FLK Studio and VAX77 w/ light action could be ideal controllers for a software rig and/or studio.

Comparing prices of both, I have the impression FLK isn´t overpriced, but luxurious.

 

A.C.

 

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I wonder if the Lachnit ELK has any connection with the discontinued (since Yamaha bought Bosendorfer) Bosendorfer electronic piano - which used the action from an Imperial, with light sensors, very high resolution internally instead of MIDI resolution; and used sampling of an Imperial Grand that was done by Vienna.

I was following the development on the Bosendorfer web site prior to the sale to Yamaha, and it disappeared soon after. There were at least two prototype keyboards that had been produced. The idea at the time was to develop a practice keyboard for high-end concert pianists that could easily be set up in a hotel room, and would duplicate the feel and sound of a 9 foot Imperial Grand. One of the prototype instruments had been sent out with a musical group for field testing.

A price was never announced, but it was anticipated that it would be considerably higher than any currently available electronic piano.

 

[Theo Verelst]

I've had thoughts about optical keyboards since long ago, of course it is cool the contacts won't wear out at all!

The midi via usb sounds good, but still: there should also be timing specs, because also USB isn't necessarily infinitely fast, and it could be time-stamps are needed. How much noise-free measuring, and how much temporal resolution do you need when playing with sub-sample accurate instruments in the higher note range ? Quite a bit to compare with a real (analog) amplified piano, to record and effectuate the sound and get all reflecting and standing waves to behave with taste and life to them. Quite a bit.

 

I thought the VAX-77 had some special midi messages for giving out more accurate velocity values ? That may be interesting, though factoring in a adapting curve before the 7 bits value conversion is probably nice.

 

 

Of course you're going to need a hell of a monitoring system for such a piano!

 

T.V.

 

[mate stubb]

I wonder if the Lachnit ELK has any connection with the discontinued (since Yamaha bought Bosendorfer) Bosendorfer electronic piano -

 

Yes, it's the same guy and the same technology. Seems like the ideal companion for PianoTeq.

[kanker.]

Man, I'd love to check one of those out.

[Dana.]

Man, I'd love to check one of those out.

+1

[mate stubb]

I don't remember details from the older Boesendorfer page, but is this essentially a Renner action in a box driving a high resolution midi controller?

[Al Coda]

I don't remember details from the older Boesendorfer page, but is this essentially a Renner action in a box driving a high resolution midi controller?

 

I don´t think so because the website info is (german only),-

reliability

 

FLK keyboards completely designed and manufactured in Vienna (Austria).

Feedstock of piano action comes from Italy, complemented, reworked and refined in Vienna by FLK.

More parts like case, side panels, electronics and software exclusively produced/manufactured and supplied by certified specialist manufacturers from Vienna, assembled by FLK.

 

I hope that´s correct in english language.

 

They also sell some spare parts,- new ... :-)

clonk

 

I assume, they use highest end Fatar keybeds, disassemble the contact strips and replace by the light sensor technique, re-finish the action, then sell the strips.

 

The Studio version is 55.114 lbs, so I don´t expect it to be a real piano action like you find in an acoustic piano.

 

A.C.

 

[mate stubb]

That's disappointing if true.

 

Current hammer actions from Fatar and others have miserable response on fast repeated notes - a problem that real piano actions solved 200 years ago.

[Al Coda]

That's disappointing if true.

 

Current hammer actions from Fatar and others have miserable response on fast repeated notes - a problem that real piano actions solved 200 years ago.

 

Well, for the time being, let it be MY assumption only,- we don´t know that.

OTOH,- which piano/keyboard action manufacturers do we have in italy ?

And if it is Fatar supplying parts, who tells it´s the same stuff we know as already assembled keybeds coming from ´em.

And, if the company promises to rework the action to Vienna Concert Grand standards and it becomes evident they do, what´s the fuss ?

We don´t know which parts of a supplied keybed they use and what they add being especially manufactured in Vienna.

I doubt they are so stupid using a Fatar TP40GH, throw it in a custom designed case w/ their electronics and try to sell for EUR 3.500.-.

 

They know we don´t get lightsensor electronics in any other 88 weighted keys keyboard,- but they also know we´d get a Fatar TP40GH w/ MIDI&USB as also triple pedal support in a Doepfer PK88 for EUR 700.-.

 

A.C.

[Marzzz]

I thought the VAX-77 had some special midi messages for giving out more accurate velocity values ? That may be interesting, though factoring in a adapting curve before the 7 bits value conversion is probably nice.

The VAX77 supports the MIDI CC#88 High Resolution Velocity message, which gives you upward of 15,000 velocity levels. Pianoteq also supports it, which makes for a wonderful combination (especially as Pianoteq continues to improve with version 4.X). One can argue whether it truly makes a difference vs 128 velocity levels, but I certainly prefer the VAX77/Pianoteq vs the large sampled pianos. I am willing to put up with the (diminishing) flaws in the sound for the much more natural feel of playing without velocity switching.

 

[Marzzz]

Lachnit FLK Studio and VAX77 w/ light action could be ideal controllers for a software rig and/or studio.

Comparing prices of both, I have the impression FLK isn´t overpriced, but luxurious.

 

Personally, having only one controller (and a preference for more of a piano weight) I am very happy with my VAX77 Ultra Heavy. If I were going the two controller route, it would be a very accurate 88-key piano weighted action and a VAX77 Heavy. The VAX77 Standard (they no longer have a "light" action) is extremely light.