Pa Gherkin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I recently got a Yamaha P 105 and I find it really doesn't sum to mono very well at all. Strangely,some Yamaha DPs seem to work well in mono while others don't. I'm considering exchanging it for a Casio PX3. Can any one with experience tell me how well the PX3 works in mono? Have searched the KC via Google unsucessfully. I've tried both instruments but stores usually set you up with phones, small pairs of stereo speakers, or the piano's internal speakers,if any. Incidentally,I find the Px350 to be a non starter for me due to its lack of DSP tweakability and actually prefer no onboard speakers. Thanks for any insight on the Px3- mono thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 PX-3 has a couple of specific mono piano patches. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob L Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 PX-3 does have specific mono piano patches. I don't even use them and don't find any issues with the patches being summed to mono ( that could be my ear isn't sophisticated enough to pick it out). PX-3 has loads of DSP tweakability but requires some patience to program and leverage it. Good luck! Korg CX-3 (vintage), Casio Privia PX-5S, Lester K, Behringer Powerplay P2, Shure 215s http://www.hackjammers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thank you gentlemen. I have plenty of patience for tweaking the Casio DSPs as long as I have a solid sounding instrument as a basis from which to work. Also,my Sweetwater guy seems to think the poor mono performance of my P105 is an anomaly (as in maybe it's a lemon). We'll see. Might just prefer something that gives me more options anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Before you trade, try using just one side of the Yamaha, rather than the summed output. That is, use the Right side output only, if the Left output is the solo summed output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Jeff's good advice brings up another point... how did you sum to mono? Did you use the Left out jack, which internally sums to mono when nothing is in the right out jack? Or did you connect both the Left and Right jacks and sum them externally? Sometimes people may do the latter through a mixer, for example, if they have a desire to run mono in the house but stereo through their monitors, or vice versa, but that may not produce the same summing that the board can provide internally, so a board may not sum to mono equally well using both methods. The P-105 is designed to work in mono using the "L/L+R" jack, so if you summed it externally, maybe that's the issue. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADino Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Recently tried the p85&p95 next to the casio 350 and the 330. The 330 felt the best, but Im still looking for a px3 to try. Love how light these things are, but looking as a controller, so px3 may be the way to go. Hey Scott, arent all dp's designed to work mono using the L jack? Thats my impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The Casios do. I have used my 330 to control NI to good effect. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... but that may not produce the same summing that the board can provide internally, so a board may not sum to mono equally well using both methods. I've heard this from what should be reliable sources (Dave W being one, IIRC). I'd like to hear a plausible technical explanation, though. I can't think of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I run my PX3 in mono using the "Line Out L/mono" jack and the mix sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... but that may not produce the same summing that the board can provide internally, so a board may not sum to mono equally well using both methods. I've heard this from what should be reliable sources (Dave W being one, IIRC). I'd like to hear a plausible technical explanation, though. I can't think of one. Yeah, I know. I think you and I have read the same posts. ;-) Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Recently tried the p85&p95 next to the casio 350 and the 330. The 330 felt the best, but Im still looking for a px3 to try. The PX3 supposedly uses the same mechanism as the PX330 but with a matte finish to the keys, I do think the PX3 feels a bit nicer. Personally, I prefer both the P95 and PX350 actions to the PX330 and PX3, though, which just shows how subjective this all is. Hey Scott, arent all dp's designed to work mono using the L jack? It's a common convention, but not any kind of industry requirement, so there are exceptions.The Nord Piano doesn't work that way, but it has a Mono option which sends mono out both the L and R jacks. The Numa, as far as I could tell, offered no mono sum option. I seem to remember using some board that mono'd out the right output, but I can't remember what it was. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 casio = toy AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Guys,thank you for your suggestions. Prior to posting I tried every mono output configuration into every mono destination I could think of including all of those mentioned after the L/mono out sounded poor. L/mono resulted in the octave starting with C5 sounding plunky,quiet,and muffled with a short decay. R out by itself made the middle C octave sound weak. All other mono output schemes resulted in various seemingly random tonal strangeness. Tried different cables too. Phones sound great from the headphone outs as do the internal speakers. This all promped my question about the PX3. Geez,I just wanted to get on the lightweight weighted 88 piano bandwagon for when local gigs come up. I'm sure Sweetwater will send another P105 or put my purchase price toward something different. I could be mistaken but I seem to recall Kanker mentioning one of the higher end Yamahas not working well in mono. Wish I could remember which one it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I could be mistaken but I seem to recall Kanker mentioning one of the higher end Yamahas not working well in mono. Wish I could remember which one it was.The CP1/5/50 series sounds like pure, unadulterated ass in mono. Really horrifying. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thank you,Kevin. You refreshed my memory and made me laugh simultaneously. BTW,I borrowed that phrase when I told my roofer that the fascia boards on the front of my house "looked like ass" when his crew finished with them. He fixed 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob L Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 16251 ones comment that casio = toy is no longer true IMHO Korg CX-3 (vintage), Casio Privia PX-5S, Lester K, Behringer Powerplay P2, Shure 215s http://www.hackjammers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I must admit that the Casio=toy bias may have resided way in the back of my mind prompting me to go with the Yamaha. Hearing the sound of "pure unadulterated ass" in mono has cleared out the last vestiges of that prejudice. Boy,do I love that phrase. It's also kind of soured me on even giving another P105 a chance. Right now I think I'm leaning heavily toward the Casio. Ten years ago I never would have imagined saying "I think I'll step up from the Yamaha to the Casio." Times surely do change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I will say, I use the CP300 or CP250 a bit as backline, and I'd rather that than any of the current crop of DP's (save a CP5 is they didn't SLUadA in mono ) I did do one gig on a Privia. I used my Electro rack for sounds. One thing I'll say about the NE2r is that it, like the Electro itself, can be finicky regarding the pianos. EP's generally play well regardless, but some manufacturers/actions just do not interact well with the Electro acoustic piano sounds. For example, Korg actions simply do not work with the Electro pianos, and they're not exactly kind to the EPs either. The Privia I played on a gig a year or so ago in NYC (D-Bon witnessed it) interacted extremely naturally with the NEr2, almost like I was using my MP8II. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Oh, and I'm always glad to add a little unadulterated ass to a discussion.... A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 16251 ones comment that casio = toy is no longer true IMHO While it's true that Casio has made "toy" boards, they've often made other cool stuff, whether the old CZ series "phase distortion" synths, the AZ-1 "keytar," or earlier pianos like the PX-310 which served me well. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I had a px320. When I got it I had to tighten the screws so it wouldn't buzz. Didn't care for the plastic case. The samples became old very fast. The action seemed nice at home, but at gigs I noticed my fingers getting stuck between notes. I simply lost any feelings I had for it, loved its light weight. I was using a Fp7, but the weight and the bottoming out of the keys made me consider a Casio. Before I bought my FP4, I thought about buying PX3, but I thought the samples were weak. You get what you pay for and I would have to see pros playing them before I'd consider one again. AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 16251 said:I thought about buying PX3, but I thought the samples were weak. You get what you pay for and I would have to see pros playing them before I'd consider one again. ________________________________________________________________ Does that mean that those "weak" samples would sound better to you if a pro was playing a Casio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 As a mono guy, I got rid of my Yamaha P120 after I found the only way to get a decent sound was to midi up my Kurz micro piano! I held back upgrading a couple of years ago when I heard the CP1/5/50s were coming out, but they disappointed in the mono department too. I tried using the right channel output only, but it seemed to suck the life out of the sound. One way to sum the two sides more harmoniously might be to run one side through a digital delay, 10-20ms (?). The underlying problem is that the phase differences cancel out when emanating from the same point. So the delay moves one side 'behind' the other, and the out of phase sounds become in phase. Experimentation with the delay setting will yield a lot of interesting sounds, which of course may or may not be what you are after. As the delay unit I was using was somewhat imprecise, on the gig it was hard make it work well - a better delay unit with a digital display for example would help. I had a play with the CP1/5/50s and it looks like it could do this with its internal effects. On the other hand if it was that easy to do you woud imagine Mr Yamaha woud have at least put in a preset for it. (Maybe he did?) Now I'm very happy with my Casio PX3, as all its pianos work well in mono, and it's a lot easier to move than any of the Yams too, except maybe my NP30, which rarely plays through anything other than its own speakers. John Legend Soul 261, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Hopefully posting my travails here will benefit someone else so here goes. Got my second P105 today and as feared,it sounded just like the first in mono. Has to be something in the design. Stereo through phones or onboard speakers was very fine. I like the action too,but it's going back since I always use mono live. Bright side:Sweetwater handles such situations in a hassle free manner. Dark side:Yammy design could have done better. Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions on this adventure. Damn,I really miss my old Korg SG1D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasGT3 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I love my PX3 for piano (mono). Great feel, very light weight to transport. Kurzweil PC3x, Nord Electro 3, Nord C-1, Casio Privia PX-3, Yamaha DX-7, Korg Polysix, Moog Taurus 3, Yamaha Motif XS (rack),Ventilator, QSC K12, K10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I love my PX3 for piano (mono). Great feel, very light weight to transport. _________________________________________________________________ +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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