I've outgrown my rig and it's driving me mad.

[dazzjazz]

Ah forget it.....!

[Joe Muscara]

Some of us were trying to sleep.

 

 

[dazzjazz]

It's OK - I just had a bit of a rant and regretted it. Tongue planted firmly in cheek!

 

Tomorrow will be a better day!

 

Darren

[kanker.]

So you're saying you outgrew your organ?

[dazzjazz]

Ha - no it's outgrowing me!! Especially when a cute brunette walks by....

 

No seriously I need the sound and vibe of my A100 on the gig now.

The Nord C1>Pro 145 has been GREAT. I've done most of my pro organ playing on this setup, learnt a lot and gained a lot of skills. I can remember back 5 years to when I still had my CX3 and was dying for a dual manual clone and then the C1 was released.

 

Even still, now my playing has progressed it's time for something better and I want that inspiring tone on the gig, every gig.

 

Leaning towards KeyB Duo or C2D as they have 4 sets drawbars. I dig that the KeyB is laid out the same way. Not sure if the internal sim of each would be enough or if I'm still gonna have to carry the Pro 145 or a real Leslie.

 

Arrrggggghhhhhhhh........

[CEB]

The 3300 goes to 11.

[John Tweed]

Funny, I was just thinking how I've achieved live rig nirvana. Having just added a QSC K10 to my SK1/vent and PX3 setup, I now have a rig that I can carry from the car in three easy trips, no trollies required, and gives me high quality musical sounds to boot. As someone who started out with bulky, heavy and inefficient guitar and bass amps, and progressed thru heavy keyboards (L100, Leslie, Fender-Rhodes 88, etc) to finally have such an easy-to-move rig that sounds so good, I am truly stoked. Of course YMMV.

 

John

[AnotherScott]

Leaning towards KeyB Duo or C2D as they have 4 sets drawbars.

I'd consider the Hamichord as well.

[dazzjazz]

One of the forum members had a dreadful experience with the Hamichord. I am not going there!

[AnotherScott]

One of the forum members had a dreadful experience with the Hamichord. I am not going there!

Strange, everyone loves the Mojo, and the Hamichord uses the same electronics, but in a more traditional layout (4 drawbar sets, rocker switches, reverse key octave presets, wood cabinetry).

[Joe Muscara]

IIRC, he got the issues resolved didn't he?

 

Darren, is the Mojo out of the question? What are you looking for in the new clone?

[mate stubb]

Mojo, duh. The layout is not completely authentic, but it is a subset of authentic.

 

As for the sound, you could not do better.

[dazzjazz]

I am looking for inspiration and more miles on a traditional interface. I guess that leaves it to the KeyB or at a stretch the C2D.

 

It's frustrating when you can sound good at home on the real deal and lose the vibe on a clone.

[RedKey]

YMMV, but I spent some time with a C2D and a pair of k10's and no vibe was lost. I'm comparing to a '56 C3 & 122 at home. Position the k10's so one is pointing at you and one 45-90 degrees off hitting the room. Very inspiring rig.

[niacin]

If it's the tone that's missing, why not get a V-machine (about AU$300, check ebay), load up VB3 (AU$40), set up the midi controllers to match the Nord and you're good to go. It's a doddle to do. I got a V-machine last week, loaded up VB3 and it all worked great at the jam I had on sunday.

 

If it's the layout, you already know the choices.

[Gary75]

It really depends in how much you 'feel' with the A100 Darren. If your like me and feel you play better on it, then you'll probably feel the way that I do. Every clone is a compromise, even the KeyB. I could get round the A100 far better than I could with the KeyB. Same with the C2D which I replaced it with. If your prepared to take the compromise that all clones make, then you will most certainly be happy with either choice. Otherwise, get gigging an A100!

[dazzjazz]

Ah don't tempt me to gig with the A100. I can see most of my band mates running a mile from helping me lug it!

 

Will let you know what I end up with.

 

What amp are you using with the C2D? Mono or Stereo? How's the CV?

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I own the Mojo, and sold a C2 (with C2D OS installed) to get it.

 

I think that both are great sounding organs.. the new C2D 122 leslie sim is VERY good (comparable to the Ventilator, just a little less bass rotor animation).. the new OS sound is less compressed, and it really screams. The only thing I didn't like about the C2+C2D OS, was the percussion.. I thought that the new OS was a step backward from a percussion standpoint.. it sounded too "bell-like" and lost a bit of the woodiness of the original C2 OS.

 

That said, I do believe that the Mojo is overall more authentic sounding than the C2d, and it's ability to model 20 different tonewheel sets (including personalizing your own set) is very significant when it comes to getting THE sound you're looking for.. whether it's smooth jazz or classic rock, and there is a warmth to the Mojo that I don't hear from other clones.

 

I have used both the Nord and Mojo with a pair of QSC K10's and they both sound great. Unfortunately I didn't get to compare them side by side, because I sold the Nord to afford the Mojo.. but my sense is that the Mojo is a bit warmer and more authentic sounding especially in the C/V and percussion areas and comparable in all other areas.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Craig

[CEB]

Ah don't tempt me to gig with the A100. I can see most of my band mates running a mile from helping me lug it!

 

Often, it is not that bad to gig with. But when it is bad it can be really bad. For the really bad load ins you still have the Nord in reserve. You just need to be equipped to handle transporting it and no matter how careful you are the A100 will get dinged up some.

[AnotherScott]

To the various people suggesting the Mojo, remember that the OP wants the traditional layout. So unless budget or weight is concern, the better choice would be the Hamichord, which uses the same engine, except with the more traditional ergonomics and aesthetics. (As for VB3, as good as it is, you can't get the current, best version outside of the Hamichord or Mojo, .)

 

the new C2D 122 leslie sim is VERY good (comparable to the Ventilator, just a little less bass rotor animation)..

Over at the Nord user forum, someone posted an MP3 of the E4D (same sim as C2D), with its own sim, and with the Vent... I think the difference is still pretty noticeable.

 

http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-electro-forum-f9/rotary-speaker-4d-vs-neoinstruments-t3489.html

[Craig MacDonald]

 

the new C2D 122 leslie sim is VERY good (comparable to the Ventilator, just a little less bass rotor animation)..

Over at the Nord user forum, someone posted an MP3 of the E4D (same sim as C2D), with its own sim, and with the Vent... I think the difference is still pretty noticeable.

 

http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-electro-forum-f9/rotary-speaker-4d-vs-neoinstruments-t3489.html

 

Anotherscott, I think that's an awful comparison Mp3 (and what an awful drawbar setting to choose to demo the two sims).. the C2d leslie sim is much better than what is reflected in that clip..

 

I don't see any comparisons between the Ventilator and the Nord C2D sim that reflects the BALANCE between the upper and lower rotor (which is selectable on both sims).. and the first thing that jumps out at me about this MP3 is that the NORD sim needs to have the balance changed to reflect a little less treble horn and a little more bass rotor.

 

I also notice in that thread that there is a comparison of overdrive where they sweep the overdrive, and the fact is that most of these sims are useless with maximum drive, and if you listen to both sims the overdrive sounds equally sweet on both at certain points in the range.

 

I stand by my statement that the C2D leslie sim and the Ventilator sim are quite comparable, with the exception that the low rotor has slightly less animation on the Nord sim than the Ventilator sim. I personally prefer a bit more low rotor, but some people do not... I seem to recall Frederick Sommerville suggesting that NORD had purposely dialed back the low rotor based on beta test feedback.

 

The C2D sim IS quite comparable to the Ventilator, and I believe that in a blind listening test, with the right settings and EQ on the C2D, the Ventilator would NOT necessarily win.

 

 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Have you considered a chopped B3? The layout, vibe and sound would be exactly what you need and the weight would not be overbearing. Run it through a Vent and it might be what you need. Here's an example. Obviously you would have to find a closer source.

 

http://www.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/legacy-products/vintage-hammond-roadbox-organs/

[mate stubb]

Of course, if one was unwilling to compromise on the player interface, one could come up with a custom solution...

 

http://www.hotrodmotm.com/images/hammond/keeper/keeper_dualmaple_01_sm.jpg

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

You're just mean, Moe.

 

 

That photo surprised me how much seeing it made my heart skip just now.

[Jim Alfredson]

Have you considered a chopped B3? The layout, vibe and sound would be exactly what you need and the weight would not be overbearing. Run it through a Vent and it might be what you need. Here's an example. Obviously you would have to find a closer source.

 

http://www.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/legacy-products/vintage-hammond-roadbox-organs/

 

Of course there's no guarantee that a chop will sound like or play like his A100, since Hammonds vary wildly in tone and action due to any number of factors.

 

Don't you have access to an XK3c system? I would spend some time with the XK3c and make a custom tonewheel set on it based on your A100. That will probably get you the closest you can get. You'd need to haul your Leslie, though. Nothing replaces moving air.

 

I liked the KeyB Duo that I played on a few gigs in Italy except for the latency, which has supposedly been fixed. The layout was nice, the action was nice (a bit stiff but the one I played was almost brand new), and it sounded great. That might be a good option, too. Do they offer a full pedal board?

[dazzjazz]

Yes they have a full pedal board. Probably can't afford that straight away.

I think l'll list my Pro 145 on eBay soon. I don't really want to sell it but sometimes I suspect it's part of the problem.

 

Do you think a top-level sim like Ventilator running in stereo with 2 K10s would be better than the Pro 145?

 

As for the XK3c system, I'm not a fan and I don't have the patience to tweak it. The CV is bizzarre.

 

I just heard there's a C2D in Canberra, which is 3 hours drive away. Might be worth the trip. Craig's review of the percussion is a concern, as I like a woody percussion and if they have made it bell-like then that would be a deal breaker.

 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Dazzjazz if you have a chance to try the C2D in person it's really worth the trip. My perspective on the C2D is based on having the new OS for about a week and using it for one gig. Give the C2D a listen for yourself and see what you think. It was the percussion in the top two actives that I didn't like. But I liked averything else!

 

Craig

[Dglavko]

Hi Darren,

 

Sorry to hear your rig is not cutting it on the inspiration factor these days. For what it is worth, the clips which I have heard of your C1-MS145 were spot on or me as is your cd.

 

That said, I had a Nord C1, but now have a Mojo and am elated with it. I also have a vent, MS pro 145, l3300,'59 A100 w145 for point of reference.

 

I also spent 20 minutes with C2D going through a big Roland amp (not my amp of choice) and was very pleased with the C2D (shocked me actually) and would vouch for all Craig says.

 

All that said, the 3300 is definitely a big step up from the ms145 but then so is the weight.

 

I have not yet hooked up the Mojo to the vent, MS145, 3300 or 145 as time is a bit scarce for me for such comps these days but moreso because the Mojo has not left me craving to do so.

 

I still think that in a small space/room real air from the ms145/3300 easily beats the sims unless one prefers a dirtier tone (in which case the vent, mojo and c2d all deliver). (I prefer a bit cleaner sound than some so John Lord tone is not on the radar for me, but Goldings, Medeski, Lonnie certainly are.)

 

Ultimately however, I think that in a jazz setting, the A100 -145/7/22 will always beway more inspiring than any sim/clone. As good as Tony Monaco sounded (Mojo W 3300) when I heard him 2 weeks ago, Lonnie's A100 w 147 (4 weeks before that) was that much better (both heard w/i 10 feet).

 

[niacin]

Yeh, Pro Audio have one on the floor, at least they did last week.

 

Yes they have a full pedal board. Probably can't afford that straight away.

I think l'll list my Pro 145 on eBay soon. I don't really want to sell it but sometimes I suspect it's part of the problem.

 

Do you think a top-level sim like Ventilator running in stereo with 2 K10s would be better than the Pro 145?

 

As for the XK3c system, I'm not a fan and I don't have the patience to tweak it. The CV is bizzarre.

 

I just heard there's a C2D in Canberra, which is 3 hours drive away. Might be worth the trip. Craig's review of the percussion is a concern, as I like a woody percussion and if they have made it bell-like then that would be a deal breaker.

 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Craig MacDonald]

Hi Darren,

 

I also spent 20 minutes with C2D going through a big Roland amp (not my amp of choice) and was very pleased with the C2D (shocked me actually) and would vouch for all Craig says.

 

 

I have not yet hooked up the Mojo to the vent, MS145, 3300 or 145 as time is a bit scarce for me for such comps these days but moreso because the Mojo has not left me craving to do so.

 

 

 

Thanks for the 2nd on my C2D thoughts.... and I should mention that, like Dglavko, I have not had the inclination to hook my mojo up to either my Ventilator (which is sitting on the floor beside it) OR hook it up to a real leslie.. obviously the real leslie is a bit more work to hook up, because my Hammonds/leslies are in a different room them my Mojo.. but the fact that I haven't hooked up either the Ventilator or a real leslie to my Mojo says something about it's quality.

 

With respect to listening to Lonnie on an A100/147 vs Tony on a Mojo/3300, I highly doubt that that you'd hear any noticable difference if both the Mojo and the A100 went through the same 147.

 

Craig