Young muso once again looking for advice

[scottasin]

So, I have a dilemma, and I need to sort it out sooner rather than later, because the longer I wait, the harder it will get. Here's the situation: I graduated highschool in 2010 and went to college for one year of classes. When I was there I realized that I am not yet really ready to commit myself to school full time, and if I were to try right now I'd be wasting my money and not getting the fullest education I should. I also realized that, while I'm young and able, I want to take a shot at being a musician professionally. I decided not to re-enroll for classes this past fall and basically was a 'musician' practicing piano a couple hours a day in my parents house hoping to find some like minded people to give it a shot with.

 

At the end of November, a few kids who went to my highschool a few years ahead of me contacted me to see if I'd like to try out to be in their band. Of course, I jumped at the opportunity and made it into the band. Their music is, in some ways, exactly what I want to play (lots of improv, funk and jazz leanings here and there), while in others exactly the kind of stuff I have never really had any desire to listen to and doesn't really 'hit' me in any way (metal/math rock, electronic dance music, prog in a way that isn't really my thing). The guys in the band are incredibly technically talented, a lot better than me in many ways. When I joined, I did it thinking of it more as a way to broaden my stylistic repertoire, a way to stay in practice playing with a real band, a way to improve my playing, and potentially something that could be more somewhere down the line.

 

Since I joined the band, we've written some songs that are closer to the true style I'd want to play, but there is still stuff where I feel like I'm forcing myself to play the style the other guys want. And, despite that fact, the other guys are generally heading more and more towards the generic jamband sound while not really realizing it. There are aspects of our sound that are really unique and would be great to focus on, but the stuff the other guys want to do is more in the post Umphrees McGee jamband style rather than what could be 'our' sound, I think. On top of that, I've been realizing that I'd be much more at home playing in a more classic/folk rock style band even if this band played in a jamband style that I personally thought was more unique. Still, a lot of the music IS really fun to play, and there are still those moments of true 'locked in'-ness that seem worth playing for.

 

Heres the actual dilemma, and whats been sort of nagging at me for a few weeks now. The other guys in the band are intent on moving to Denver as a band, getting a house together, and taking our shot at it this August. This is, in one way, exactly what I set out to do just about a year ago, and in another way, I'm worried that I'll tire of the music, or that there will end up being some sort of tension in the group that would make things generally uncomfortable for me. If I go through with this, I think there is a really good chance we'll be able to make ourselves known in the jamband/festival scene and make enough to live a little bit. If I don't, I'm back at square one in my parents house with no band and no leads, and I really really don't want to live another year here. Also, I feel like I'm betraying the band if I pull out of this right now. Our guitarist has already signed up for classes in Colorado, the other guys are right now 100% certain and excited that we're going to Denver, but I'm still apprehensive. I know if I do it I need to do it soon before any big (monetary, legal) commitments are made, but I am not entirely certain if I WANT to do it. I've always been able to go with my gut on things like this, but I don't know which way my gut is leaning. Both options seem less than great, and I really don't know what to do.

 

EDIT: Also, I've told pretty much everyone I know already that we're planning on moving out to Denver. I had apprehensions about the idea from early on, but at the time it was more of a worry that we were making the move too soon, rather than being worried about doing it at all. I figured I'd get used to the idea and that by being confident about it I'd sort of 'mind over matter' myself and become more comfortable with the idea. In some ways I have, and in some ways its gotten worse...

[Michelle ggurl]

Is this the same band you posted clips of a while back and asked us to critique?

 

Either way, I have to say go with your gut. It sounds like you are not "all in" with this band ... Do you really want this band to be the deciding factor in your life's direction? You're young; seems to me there will be other opportunities to "go for it." and, ones that have more commercial viability, perhaps.

 

In terms of taking time off of school, seems you are not asking whether you should do that, but I'd tend to say stay in school. Lots of people who leave don't come back. Also, it seems like a false dichotomy to me; bands or school. Heck, school is the place you have an opportunity to take music and recording classes and learn a lot about music, and network with other musicians! You might find musicians and genres you otherwise might not have. And further opportunities. Just my 02 fwiw.

 

EDIT: what about going to school in Denver?? Like your bandmate?

[jeff7b9]

1- Make life decisions based on what is best for you. If that happens to coincide with what is best for the band, great.

 

2- If you feel you have the chops to play for a living, go for it. In my experience, if you devote the amount of time to music (and the business of it) that people devote to a job (40+ hours a week) you will be fine.

 

3a- Never a bad idea to keep your options open. There are many ways to make money playing music- studio sessions, churches, fill in work, lessons...

if you have multiple ways to generate income, you don't find yourself as vulnerable if one thing doesn't work out.

 

3b- if you move, research the area and know what all your options and opportunities are in that market.

 

[mate stubb]

You are young, take a shot now. A band in the hand is better than one in the bush!

 

If they are talented, and good people to be around, stick around a while longer and see if you can all find your sound. They may be drifting in a direction you don't care for right now, but that could change.

 

Exert your own influence, see if it bears fruit.

[Joe Muscara]

What Moe said.

[allan_evett]

Taking the shot at it while you're young is good advice. I also like the idea of exploring school, even part-time, while in Denver.

 

Denver, and most of northern CO, has a very active and eclectic original music scene; Fort Collins especially so. Boulder has a mixed scene that sounds a bit like the description of your band: a little of everything, some jam band stuff, then mix and vary.

 

I know your preference isn't the jam band style, but perhaps exerting your influence-as suggested above-will tweak the fusion of styles in a way that creates something very cool.

 

I've pursued the cover music gigs out here for the most part-working from Cheyenne, WY to Colorado Springs, and almost everywhere in between. But back in 2011 I took a slight detour from the country/rock cover thing, and did a bunch of gigs with a Celtic Rock, part cover/part original act. Didn't earn the same $$$, but had a lot of fun and played several places new to me. Discovered a few excellent players, and made some new friends. There are some cool venues in Denver and Boulder. Also "Piper Down" out in Salt Lake City is a great room; awesome owner and staff.

 

Could be a great adventure.... But if you're coming out here to pursue your dream then plan to work your arse off at it-i.e. practice a lot, listen more, write/co-write. Finding work to make ends meet will likely be easier than in the Midwest: unemployment's a few points lower here. Lots of school options, too; and a few excellent music programs.

 

I'm in Loveland: about 40 miles north of Denver, and 15 south of Fort Collins. Please feel free to PM me with any questions, especially if you decide to head this way.

[ksoper]

Scottasin, your situation sounds a little like where I was back in 1978. I was at Indiana University and realized that all I wanted to do was play, and four years of school wouldn't do any more for me than delay my entrance into the music business. I dropped out of college after two years and began to play in Top 40 cover bands around Philadelphia. I, too, had the fantasy of living together with my band mates in a house like "Hard Day's Night" or the Monkees. And, to be honest, I did experience that a couple of times. We wrote together and played our originals along with the cover tunes. And it was really cool...and we didn't make any money. I ate sliced cheese and drank orange juice and lived with a number of different people. It wasn't good.

 

And I got nowhere. It wasn't until I took a chance and moved to a major music city (Nashville) that my career really took off. I have had more success as a hired gun than a band member. YMMV, but I know that if I succeed, it's on my own merits and if I fail, likewise, it's my own fault.

 

All that to say, go ahead and take your shot, but be honest with yourself about your abilities and those of your bandmates, and know when to bail and strike out on your own.

 

And maybe you'll end up taking a day gig to support your 2.5 children, and that's perfectly ok. As long as you're making music. I wish you the best of luck.

 

K.

[mahinty]

I say go to Denver. What's the worse that can happen? You quit the band/band breaks up. Before that happens you'll have a great experience and come away with some stories.

 

If the scene is as strong in the area, as Allan suggests it is, then it sounds like the right place to meet other musicians, who you may be more stylistically aligned with.

[allan_evett]

Good points, Ken. Prompted a couple of additional thoughts:

 

Scott, while it's clear that pursuing music is your dream, it appears that being part of a unique, and original act is your focus at present. But Ken's point about knowing when to strike out on your own is important. While there have been very successful original acts that have come out of CO, that sort of success is a long, long shot, anywhere.

So if and when the time comes that you choose to focus on being a player for hire, choosing a major music center will definitely give you more options. While Denver/NoCO has provided opportunities for work, I wouldn't call the area a hotbed for hired guns. I initially moved here from Chicago in 2008 for different reasons, but as my wife and I look to the future we are considering what a move to a major music city might look like. Could be close to the right time, and a good move; we'll see.

 

In the meantime, this is a good area for an original young act to season. And it may be where you take root-perhaps permanently, perhaps for a time. It's quite a change of scenery, and I'm betting you wouldn't miss the midwest's humidity

[CEB]

If your share of the monthly housing costs are more than one weeks paycheck you may be in trouble. You will need a decent chunk of change for deposits on your place and on your various utilities. The move itself will cost. Plan the finances of the move out ahead of time and try to save up as much cash as you can.

 

Colorado is nice. I loved the Boulder area.

 

PS - FWIW - Don't litter out there. In Michigan you may get a ticket for littering. In Colorado you will 968 years of prison time.

[Cygnus64]

I say go to Denver. What's the worse that can happen?

One might lose any progress (if any) they have made in their local music scene. Since the OP is young, that's probably not an issue.

 

Denver is very nice. I spent 7 summers teaching at Colorado College in C Springs, it's a very nice area. My own personal Caveat Emptor would be living in the same house as the people in the band. That wouldn't work for me.

[Steve Force]

I cannot add to the fine responses other than: think about it then Go 4 it.

 

However, always keep education very high up on your list. And by education I mean working towards a degree.

[Joe Muscara]

I get what you-all are saying about education and getting a degree, but if the OP truly feels that he is "not yet really ready to commit [him]self to school full time, and if [he] were to try right now [he]'d be wasting [his] money and not getting the fullest education [he] should," then he's best off moving on for now. He should keep college in the back of his mind, and when and if the time comes, go do it.

 

The OP should also remember that this band is *not* a marriage, and if the right opportunity for another band that suits him better comes along at the right time, there is nothing wrong with doing that instead if the current band isn't working for him, as long as he handles that professionally.

 

On the other hand, a gig is a gig. From what he describes, the songs he doesn't like aren't awful, they just aren't his thing. If he were to go out as a sideman, that happens all the time. You learn to deal with that sort of thing and even find ways to enjoy it on some level.

 

Scott - sorry this post talks about you in the third person. It's really meant for you more than the other posters in this thread. I just started writing it that way.

[JeffLearman]

I say, if you're not sure what you want to do, finish school and snag that diploma. It's hard enough getting a good job with one, and going back to school, for most folks, only gets harder as you get older.

 

Regarding music as your main gig: I suggest that you only consider this if you can't imagine doing anything else. It's not an easy life, though it can be a rewarding one (as ANY life you choose can be).

 

As they say, "He who pays the fiddler calls the tune." If the fiddler is playing for his own enjoyment, then he can play any damn thing he wants. If you're playing music as a business, what you play will largely be dictated as a business decision ... assuming it's a successful business. Yes, of course, there are exceptions. Most are pretty exceptional. How exceptional are you?

 

but if the OP truly feels that he is "not yet really ready to commit [him]self to school full time, and if [he] were to try right now [he]'d be wasting [his] money and not getting the fullest education [he] should," then he's best off moving on for now. He should keep college in the back of his mind, and when and if the time comes, go do it.

The most important thing to get in college is that degree, sad but true. The second most important thing to get is ideas. It's not important to really understand differential equations until you need to use them -- and then if you've been introduced to the core stuff, it's a lot easier to pick up. College doesn't really teach you what you need to know in a job, it teaches you to learn, and when you get on the job you do the real learning.

 

Sorry to sound like the boring old uncle.

 

So, assuming you ignore my advice above: why Denver? Is that the place where jam bands go to get discovered?

 

In any case, I can't help you much other than asking, is this a business decision or an artistic one? You don't need to answer that to me, but to yourself. Neither answer is wrong, but you have to decide which is more important.

[Cygnus64]

I get what you-all are saying about education and getting a degree, but if the OP truly feels that he is "not yet really ready to commit [him]self to school full time, and if [he] were to try right now [he]'d be wasting [his] money and not getting the fullest education [he] should," then he's best off moving on for now. He should keep college in the back of his mind, and when and if the time comes, go do it.

 

 

I did this. Any day now I'm going back to finish my degree. It's only been 28 years, I need some more time to "find myself".

 

I'm a-gonna be brutally honest here: the whole thing is probably a terrible idea. For the parents here (I'm not one of them), your kid comes home and says "Folks, I'm moving to Denver to live in a house with a rock band"= c'mon, that's like a line from a Tom Petty song.

 

The good news is that it doesn't matter. This is why God invented young adulthood, so we can do pretty much whatever and we'll survive it just fine. I dropped out of two colleges, I was full scholarship at both. Good move? Of course not. I just felt that school was holding me back in the creative drinking and pot-smoking fields, and those were options I wished to explore more.

[Joe Muscara]

In case you hadn't noticed, Scott, there are a bunch of old fogies and parents on here. But I think it's good that you're hearing multiple perspectives, because it's unlikely you'd get those varied responses hanging out with your buddies, and the older people you might talk to like your parents and other family members might be too close to give you an objective viewpoint.

 

To be clear, I went to college and loved it. I still count that as one of the best periods of my life and wouldn't change a thing about it. But a lot of that was because I was ready for it, and I knew what I wanted to do and had a major to go with it.

 

Cygnus - do you think you'd be better off if you had finished college, or even if you got a degree now? Do you wish you had stuck it out?

[Michelle ggurl]

I say, if you're not sure what you want to do, finish school and snag that diploma. It's hard enough getting a good job with one, and going back to school, for most folks, only gets harder as you get older.

 

This. ^^^ (Sorry, Joe, I'm going to have to disagree with you.) Employment is hard right now ... My friends and family who have a degree, ANY degree, seem to be faring better at getting jobs than those who don't. The reality is, live music is not a growing field in terms of earning potential; chances are you will need another job to make ends meet at some point.

 

That's enough of the negative, here's the positive: I'm not saying don't go for it. I'm saying don't drop out of school. Denver is a nice place, it sounds from thos in the know that there's a scene there, and school exposes you to new ways of thinking, new people, and a way to learn new things. Take a recording class? Why not? How about video editing? Sometimes majors from other schools can take some pretty cool classes in the arts even if they aren't majoring in them. And you'l meet some inspiring and kick-ass musicians and teachers in the music dept.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm gonna pour my heart out just a leetle bit here and admit I have some doozies of regrets in my life at this point. But you know what? Finishing my degree wasn't one of them (my dad and I at one point had a knock-down yelling match over my intent to at one point "take a year off."). I know that it would have been so hard to go back and get a degree later. I know, because I see my friends in their 30s, 40s, even older doing it now. I regret some moves I didn't make AFTER that school period. I mean really, when i graduated I was 22. That's still a whole lot of youth left at that age.

[Cygnus64]

Cygnus - do you think you'd be better off if you had finished college, or even if you got a degree now? Do you wish you had stuck it out?

For starters, it would have made my parents happy.

 

There are certain jobs I can't apply to, college gigs. I've had a few as instructor but I couldn't get an asst prof job. It hasn't hurt in any other career ways being a musician. Most people assume I have one, since 99% of pro classical musicians do.

 

For music, I think it's silly. It's like getting a degree in basketball. At the same time, the schools want the sheepskin, and unless one is a household name musician, they can't teach at college level fulltime without it. "Fulltime" in music school terms means that you could gig as much as you please, si I could keep my current schedule and teach classes in the day and double my income.

[Bobadohshe]

Some thoughts:

 

1) You will not be able to make a living playing with that prog band ever. Sorry. Oh you might get some $$ for various festivals or sell a bit of merch. But nobody's getting rich or even making a satisfying long term income with it. Not at least as the band currently is.

 

2) Playing music is going to be a terrifying way to make a living in the next 30 years. Why? Because the value put on the type of live performance we do is evaporating. The days of crushing it playing casuals and club gigs 6 nights a week and making $75K a year doing so are gone and they're not coming back. Not saying that's necessarily what you want to do, but be realistic about what you want out of life financially.

 

3) You feel like your music degree is just okay but you don't really need it to do what you want to do? Don't get a music degree. You probably know a good bit of all the practical info you will need and then some. Get a BUSINESS degree. Or a COMMUNICATIONS degree. Or some other useful degree that'll help you in life with whatever you want to do. I wish I had gotten one of those. I myself got a Structural Engineering degree which might be cool, but I never intended to use it and haven't. I should have gotten something more useful for my own career.

 

3) Moving to NYC or LA might do more for your potential music career than moving to Denver.

 

4) You can move out to Denver if you really want to of course, what do I know. Have some cool experiences. But ultimately I think you're going to want to bolster your education or work on your playing to move beyond the band you're playing with now. Unless your band evolves from playing pseudo prog into some badass band, which maybe it will, so prove me wrong damnit!.

[Mogut]

Stay in school! Period! Jam out with guys in town.

 

Jesus you guys?

 

Op you really need to understand who your asking in this forum

[Michelle ggurl]

Yeah, Bobby makes some good points. Everything I said about getting a degree actually assumes you are NOT getting a music degree. Computer Science, Communications, Business ... These are all degrees that are employable over a wide spectrum. Contractors with CS degrees can do all kinds of stuff.

 

FWIW even if your band gets signed, this is niche music -- won't be a lot of money. Do some research on even more mainstream indie bands and what money is actually made. It is dismal for all but the very select few.

[frogmonkey]

Hmmm...

 

I quit college after one year. That year of college was spent partying and slacking. It was a big waste of money.

 

Three years later, I went back to college with focus and self-discipline. I took a double major, and aced it.

 

I'm really glad I did it that way, and I would recommend it. College is easy, compared to "real life".

[allan_evett]

I took six and a half years to finish my B.A., in music. Did a couple of part-time semesters, and took a year off to tour with a busy cover band. One regret is that I didn't take the advice of my dept. chair to continue on an get an M.A. (Columbia College has a great Master's program for which I'd already qualified). I currently accompany p/t for dance classes at CSU in Fort Collins. Would like to have been able to qualify for a couple of additional opportunities in the Music Dept., but the lack of that advanced degree has held me back. I'm in the pool for theory lecturing, but that's about it....

 

Scott, in an earlier post I recommended sticking with school right now, even part-time (though if budget somehow allowed it I'd try to go full-time). And should you pursue a music degree I'd recommend either going with a music business major, or music education. It's been a challenge surviving on a basic liberal arts degree in music.

[ksoper]

 

 

I think Bobadohshe's comments are spot on. I moved to Nashville. If you're serious about music you come here, or go to LA or NYC. There is an amazing alternative (or whatever they're calling it) movement here. The Black Keys have their studio here. Jack White is here all the time. Alice Cooper came here to make his latest album, produced by Bob Ezrin, who lives here.

 

If you're hunting deer you go to where the deer are. You don't wait for them to walk up your driveway.

 

BTW, I did go back to college and graduated in '94. I don't use the degree but I have it, and it looked good on the resume when I interviewed for my new job back in February.

 

[MAJUSCULE]

I'm nearing the end of my year off, getting ready to go back to school next year. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. In fact, I've known the exact program I've wanted to attend for about five or six years now. I probably would have done really well at school this year. But I chose to take a year off. I gained some major life experience, met amazing people, travelled, saw shows, played shows, did a whole wackload of things. And I'm still not done. And I'm even more excited for school. I've gained maturity, work ethic and discipline. I think I'll be even better. Anyway, not everyone's the same. That works for me, but it didn't work for Cygnus. If you know yourself well enough, you'll know if you will or won't be back in school someday.

 

Man, you're young. So am I. Do fun shit. What's the point of living if you aren't? What, you'll retire a few years later? Dude, I don't know about you, but I think these are better years to have a good time than 65+.

 

All that being said, there have been some great points here. The music biz is tougher than ever and only getting worse. A Bachelor's is becoming the new HS diploma; everyone needs one.

 

Make sure you can live with these guys. I live with ten other people, most between 18-20 (It sounds crazy, I know! ) and living with your peers can be tough some times. You need to be able to split up responsabilities and resolve conflicts. You guys need to learn to cook and clean. You need to make an effort to get yourselves out in the scene and be professional about it. You need to boldly go where no jam band has gone before (Not talking about the strength of your acid. )

 

Hopefully we've been of service. Unfortunately, we don't know you. So, take these tips and think it through. Only you can make this decision, not us, not your family, not your bandmates or friends. Only you. Godspeed.

[Joe Muscara]

I live with ten other people, most between 18-20

Real World: Orillia?

[tompass]

Many of my friends after high school or after a year or so of college left and went on the road. For many years I heard great stories of where they gigged and how beautiful the city was etc. Would eat my heart out because I became the "boring" high school band director, raised a family, and gigged 3-4 nights a week on the side. Now at age 69 they are moaning and groaning. Wish I had your health benefits, wish I had a pension, wish I would have invested, etc. Get the point? Unless this band is "smokin" and has a strong shot to do something, my vote is for staying in school. Will be plenty of opportunities later!

[mate stubb]

I dropped out of college to play rock and roll. They were the greatest years of my musical life.

 

I was a music major and aside from studying pipe organ for the first time, I was totally bored with piano. I had just been playing it too many years. I made the mistake of asking myself what I would do with that degree - I didn't want to teach and being a solo concert performer seemed unrealistic.

 

My band played originals, travelled the country, blew a lot of big name acts off the stage, and I got to be a rock star in front of 10s of thousands of people. We came within a hair's breath of signing a record contract.

 

After many years of playing full time in other bands, I did go back to school and get that engineering degree. I had a wife and child and had to work 3 part time jobs, but I did it. It's mostly a matter of will power.

[Joe Muscara]

We are a bunch of dumasses, me included. scottasin's question is not should I stay in college or should I pursue music with this band. He has already made the decision not to continue college. In fact, he graduated high school in 2010, went for the 2010-2011 school year, and did not return for the current 2011-2012 year. He has not been in college since about a year ago.

 

scottasin's question/dilemma is, should he move with this band to Denver that he's not 100% in love with musically?

 

To answer that, I'll stick with what I posted previously about it.

 

The OP should also remember that this band is *not* a marriage, and if the right opportunity for another band that suits him better comes along at the right time, there is nothing wrong with doing that instead if the current band isn't working for him, as long as he handles that professionally.

 

On the other hand, a gig is a gig. From what he describes, the songs he doesn't like aren't awful, they just aren't his thing. If he were to go out as a sideman, that happens all the time. You learn to deal with that sort of thing and even find ways to enjoy it on some level.

In other words, my answer is yes, I think he should.

[Cygnus64]

Would like to have been able to qualify for a couple of additional opportunities in the Music Dept., but the lack of that advanced degree has held me back.

 

Yup, the problem is that the BA/BM does nothing these days, it's gotta be a Doctorate. Most of the people I know with Ph.D's in music are horrible players and horrible musicians. ( Some are excellent of course). Music and Bureaucracy are a terrible mix.

 

We are a bunch of dumasses, me included. scottasin's question is not should I stay in college or should I pursue music with this band.

 

Isn't this the same forum where someone asks which is the best keyboard for $200 and 17 people recommend a $1000 one?? The beauty of youth is that one will do what they want to do, regardless of what some old farts on teh interwebz think. He'll go to Denver, probably screw up, we'll nod in a "I told you so/been there" fashion, he'll pull out of it and get back to where he once belonged. It's the circle of life.