We want a new MacPro

[Joe Muscara]

Here's an honest question from me.

 

How much will the lack of PCI slots be missed? I'm really out of the loop on that. Most gear I know of connects via USB, FireWire, and Thunderbolt (though I'm not really familiar with too much of the latter except that it's backwards compatible with FW).

 

I guess some of the top end Pro Tools interfaces have PCI cards? Are video editors screaming (again)? Most of the PCI cards I find doing a *quick* search online are for FireWire interfaces, which are obviously not needed for Macs.

[RABid]

Apogee, RME, Motu, and many other mid to high level systems offer PCI interfaces. When I bought mine I did so because PCI offered more channels with less latency. A quick look at Sweetwater shows 41 PCI audio interfaces that they sell. I have a MOTU in my MacPro and RME in my Win DAW. To sell them now and invest in another interface just because Apple does not want to put a PCI slot in their new MacPro is not an option I am willing to take. Mac has a habbit of dropping support for devices that still have value.

[johnchop]

It happens. In theory someone could come out with a Thunderbolt connected PCI chassis. They're already doing it for PCIe.

[richwhite9]

First they seal the case then they control the apps through the app store and block disk installations.

 

best reviews of this months tech shows: nothing innovative enough to make loyalists switch brands. Sony, Apple, Microsoft, etc.

[HammondDave]

I do. I could conceivably gig with it or at least move it around. Not sure I love the aesthetic overall though.

Looks like a trash can

 

Steve Jobs is rolling his eyes in heaven... "Oy! Better send an earthquake to the Cupertino office..."

[Joe Muscara]

Perhaps answering my own question above.

 

What about expandability? Will I be able to use my old expansion cards?

 

Apple calls the new Mac Pro the most expandable Mac yet. Many people might dispute that contention, considering that the current Mac Pro offers four PCI Express slots, four internal hard-drive bays, and two optical-drive bays, while the 2013 Mac Pro will offerwell, none of those things.

 

Apple bases its claim on the fact that with six Thunderbolt 2 ports, on three independent buses, you can connect up to 36 high-performance peripheralseach port supports six daisy-chained devices. Apple also says Thunderbolt 2 provides twice the throughput of the original Thunderbolt specup to 20 gbps to each connected device, which is actually faster than PCI Express (and up to 25 times faster than FireWire 800). The company points out that those who need PCI Express slots can add a Thunderbolt PCI-expansion chassis.

The new Mac Pro: Hands on, and what you need to know | Macworld

[ITGITC]

It happens. In theory someone could come out with a Thunderbolt connected PCI chassis. They're already doing it for PCIe.

This.

 

No worries. Thunderbolt peripherals and PCIe chassis are already in the works.

 

Plus, disk installations are simple: add an external DVD drive and connect to a USB port.

 

Thunderbolt is fast. Thunderbolt2 was introduced recently. It's twice as fast.

 

The Mac Pro has six Thunderbolt ports that light up when you turn the chassis around to connect. Dark studios are not a problem.

 

Those six Thunderbolt ports can drive six devices each, daisy-chained together.

 

That's 36 devices.

 

The updated Thunderbolt Display will be released in the fall. It will display 4K Resolution and have upgraded I/O.

 

Technology is always moving forward. I think this new design for the Mac Pro is very cool.

 

 

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

The shape is also probably ideal for airflow.

[burningbusch]

Magma has a three PCIe Thunderbolt chassis. It sells for a little under $1,000. For Protools users with existing cards this could be a solution but it would need to be sanctioned by Avid (don't know that it is). Some of these chassis include drive bays as well as the PCI slots. But it's not unheard of to pay over $2,000 for the chassis alone. It's a complete rip-off, but sometimes it's your best/only option.

 

I prefer PCI over firewire or USB as I've consistently gotten lower latency using it. I suspect TB is going to be just as low latency.

 

I could see a setup with a UA Apollo with the TB option, a rack-mounted TB drive array and a TB display. That could be very nice but probably set you back $7500+.

 

I do wonder if this new design would have made it past Steve. There is nothing in the lineup that looks like it (shape and color). There are no accessories that look like they go with it.

 

Busch.

[zephonic]

It happens. In theory someone could come out with a Thunderbolt connected PCI chassis. They're already doing it for PCIe.

This.

 

No worries. Thunderbolt peripherals and PCIe chassis are already in the works.

 

Plus, disk installations are simple: add an external DVD drive and connect to a USB port.

 

Thunderbolt is fast. Thunderbolt2 was introduced recently. It's twice as fast.

 

The Mac Pro has six Thunderbolt ports that light up when you turn the chassis around to connect. Dark studios are not a problem.

 

Those six Thunderbolt ports can drive six devices each, daisy-chained together.

 

That's 36 devices.

 

The updated Thunderbolt Display will be released in the fall. It will display 4K Resolution and have upgraded I/O.

 

Technology is always moving forward. I think this new design for the Mac Pro is very cool.

 

 

 

 

But I bet those ThB devices are going to be way pricier than internal HDD's or PCIe equivalents.

Also, I have been wondering about this since ThB was announced: the display shares the available bandwidth with other devices, right? Would it not follow then that throughput speeds are not fixed and can decrease significantly when multiple displays are connected? I can only imagine what three 4K displays would do.

 

Or do I misunderstand this?

 

[therealvicz]

So PCI joins Nu-bus, serial, Centronics, AppleTalk, ADB, floppy drives etc etc in the long list of technologies actively obsoleted by Apple. Optical drives following soon and probably FireWire next. It's called innovation, they don't seem to be planning on stopping anytime soon....

[RABid]

Apple is doing their part to make sure we stuff the landfills with electronics.

[zephonic]

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2875/9017628233_30d14126fe_c.jpg

 

[ITGITC]

 

Mr. Zephonic, you are absolutely correct about the bandwidth limitations of Thunderbolt2. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how much is left over if these two AMD graphics cards are driving three 4K displays. Wowza!

 

Also... it took me a long, long time to understand that the crowd Apple is marketing to care more about getting their work done than the price. For these people, they just want the damn thing to work - no excuses. The cost of these tools isn't the top priority.

 

I imagine folks like graphics artists who are working on a deadline for a video production company are a good example of the target market for the Mac Pro.

 

For musicians working with a DAW, this category of hardware (Xeon processors and dual AMD graphics cards) just isn't necessary.

 

We'll see this fall how the Mac Pro is priced and what features it will have by default.

 

I agree. This will be an expensive machine no matter how many options you decide not to buy.

 

 

 

 

[Geoff Grace]

I do. I could conceivably gig with it or at least move it around. Not sure I love the aesthetic overall though.

Looks like a trash can

And also like a mixer knob.

 

http://www.geoffgrace.com/Pictures/MacKnob.jpg

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

For musicians working with a DAW, this category of hardware (Xeon processors and dual AMD graphics cards) just isn't necessary.

That said, I can see it being a hit with the sound for picture crowd.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[ITGITC]

For musicians working with a DAW, this category of hardware (Xeon processors and dual AMD graphics cards) just isn't necessary.

That said, I can see it being a hit with the sound for picture crowd.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

 

Yup. This machine is for a small market, but these users have depended on Apple hardware/software for a long time. I am certain Apple doesn't want to lose them. And I doubt Apple will sell a large quantity of these machines, so they'll have to ask a pretty high price for them.

 

But if you're doing sound for pictures, and if the graphics team started the project on a Mac Pro such as this one, you'll want to stick with that platform, right?

 

I love this stuff (new tech).

 

If I had their budget, I'd want one too.

 

 

[Synthoid]

Apple is doing their part to make sure we stuff the landfills with electronics.

 

 

 

http://blog.cheetahdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/computer_waste_main.jpeg

 

 

[SVG]

Hey, where's the CD drive???

 

F*ck the CD drive, where's the Floppy drive?

 

Stephen

 

 

 

 

.

[Joe Muscara]

Hey, where's the CD drive???

 

F*ck the CD drive, where's the Floppy drive?

Which one?

http://s2.cdn.memeburn.com/wp-content/uploads/floppy-disks.jpg

[Geoff Grace]

For musicians working with a DAW, this category of hardware (Xeon processors and dual AMD graphics cards) just isn't necessary.

That said, I can see it being a hit with the sound for picture crowd.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

 

Yup. This machine is for a small market, but these users have depended on Apple hardware/software for a long time. I am certain Apple doesn't want to lose them. And I doubt Apple will sell a large quantity of these machines, so they'll have to ask a pretty high price for them.

I'd bet the new Mac Pro's price will remain at least roughly the same as the old one because that's been Apple's practice for such a long time. I think their continued trend toward ever smaller form factors is designed, in part, to cut manufacturing costs so that they don't have to raise prices for newer models.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Synthoid]

http://s2.cdn.memeburn.com/wp-content/uploads/floppy-disks.jpg

 

Ah, that big floppy brings back memories of this:

 

 

http://www.jarrography.free.fr/synths/images/fairlight_cmi_series2.jpg

 

[burningbusch]

The more I look into this new Mac Pro, the more I like it. I could see it replacing my 2008 Mac Pro in a year or so. It would be nice to have more TB audio interfaces from which to choose. I could still keep my 27" DVI monitor and use a HDMI to DVI adapter. The Mac mini doesn't quite have enough and I don't like the iMac or laptops for my main computer.

 

Busch.

[OhioDan]

For its good performance in supporting up to six connected devices at 20 Gbps throughput, its safe to assume that this workstation will not be cheap.

 

[burningbusch]

For its good performance in supporting up to six connected devices at 20 Gbps throughput, its safe to assume that this workstation will not be cheap.

 

Also, looking into the AMD graphics capabilities. The AMD Firepro 9000 sells for $3400 in retail configuration. The new Mac Pro, as I understand it, has two of these or their equivalent.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195116

 

It seems unlikely the new Mac Pro is going to start at $2500. It could be twice that price for the entry level proc.

 

When comparing my 2008 2.8Mhz 8-core, it has less computing power than a 2012 Mac Mini with the top i7. Now that the Mac Pro no longer has drive bays and PCI slots, the mini and pro are more straight up comparisons. The negative of the mini is that it only has one TB. But if you can use that for a low latency audio interface AND a drive array, which should be doable, you're really set. The HDMI output can go to standard DVI so there's no need for a TB display. I don't need, nor want the heat from, a dual Firepro graphics system.

 

On Eric Persings FB page he wrote that he has an older Protools HD system running on a very stable Mac Pro. He has another system with the latest version of OSX that he uses for VIs. I could see doing something similar in keeping my Mac Pro for just PT HD audio and a Mac mini for VIs and standard DAW stuff.

 

Busch.

[zephonic]

I think last week's Sneak Peek concerned the top-of-the-line model, comparable to current 12-cores.

 

I would assume cheaper models with more mundane GPU's will be available.

 

[burningbusch]

I think last week's Sneak Peek concerned the top-of-the-line model, comparable to current 12-cores.

 

I would assume cheaper models with more mundane GPU's will be available.

 

Not if you look at the Apple site. It reads: DUAL GPUs STANDARD. Plus this text:

 

Traditionally, pro computers have relied primarily on the CPU for their computing power. But as GPU performance has dramatically increased, software developers have begun to leverage that power in their apps. With the new Mac Pro, we looked ahead and engineered an even more powerful GPU architecture. Not only does it feature a state-of-the-art AMD FirePro workstation-class GPU with up to 6GB of dedicated VRAM it features two of them. With all that power, youll be able to do things like seamlessly edit full-resolution 4K video while simultaneously rendering effects in the background and still have enough power to connect up to three high-resolution 4K displays.

 

Now it does say "up to 6GB of VRAM" so it sounds like the amount of VRAM is configurable at the time of purchase, but not the fact you have two GPUs.

 

Also, my understanding is that there are non user serviceable parts inside, e.g. no way to upgrade the RAM after the fact.

 

Busch.

[Theo Verelst]

You'll be more interested in getting a 2011 socket (X79 chipset), and probably an extreme I7 version, that is fast when used right (12 cores at 4.5 Ghz (OC) with 2000MHz fast memory with 50 GB/s quadruple bus, and PCIe2 (3 is hardly available yet) can hardly be beat).

 

Also, 4 TFlop for 1000s of $s is an exaggeration: I had someone buy an Asus GTX770 with great success which for $500 or so gets you 3.2 Tflop, and has hardware support for Cuda double precision computations, and about the same ddr5 memory bandwidth IIRC. And it is overclockable without breaking down.

 

Of course which will get the pro-software is another question.

 

[zephonic]

I think last week's Sneak Peek concerned the top-of-the-line model, comparable to current 12-cores.

 

I would assume cheaper models with more mundane GPU's will be available.

 

Not if you look at the Apple site. It reads: DUAL GPUs STANDARD. Plus this text:

 

Traditionally, pro computers have relied primarily on the CPU for their computing power. But as GPU performance has dramatically increased, software developers have begun to leverage that power in their apps.

 

Now it does say "up to 6GB of VRAM" so it sounds like the amount of VRAM is configurable at the time of purchase, but not the fact you have two GPUs.

 

Also, my understanding is that there are non user serviceable parts inside, e.g. no way to upgrade the RAM after the fact.

 

Well, we'd have to wait and see if Avid/Steinberg/MOTU and assorted VI/plug-in devs would indeed recompile their products to utilize all that dormant GPU power. If they don't, we'd be paying a lot of money for power we don't use.

 

One can always hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Heck, most audio products do not even take full advantage of multi-processor setups, so I don't see them rushing out to embrace distributed GPU processing.

 

But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.