Synthoid Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I've been shopping online for an air conditioner this evening and came across Evaporative Air Coolers. While I've heard of them, I never saw one in action. Anyone ever use one? Are they a decent alternative to AC? When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 These units are called "swamp coolers"....they work their best in areas with low humidity....not so good in high humidity areas. They are not a "decent" alternative to regular AC. They will cool the air somewhat, again all depending on the humidity reading. If you need cool air that you can depend on you should go with a regular AC unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Good answer from B3bluesman59 - and very appropriate for your location. Many people don't really understand Thermodynamics/Heat Transfer, but considering how many of you understand electricity/electronics, you could probably benefit from what I'll call Thermo/Heat Transfer 101. Many have heard the analogy between water and electricity. Consider a large water tank, a valve and a spout. The level in the tank is voltage, the valve is resitance, the flow of water is current. High level is pressure or high voltage. You can get more flow (current) by either increasing the level or opening the valve more. Heat transfer is the same thing. You can get heat flow by increasing the temperature differential or reducing thermal resistance (increasing heat transfer coefficient). There is actually no such thing as cool or cooling. You transfer heat. Transfering heat one way increases temperature, transferring the other way reduces temperature. So in the sort of cooler you're talking about, the evaporative aspect of it enhances heat transfer. However, you can never be any cooler than what you are using to cool the air - which is the outside. You can never be cooler than the outside air. So why would you use it? 3 types of heat: 1) Convective 2) Conductive 3) Radiant When you are outside on a hot day, it feels much cooler in the shade. Why? You are not feeling the radiant heat from the sun. In the shade, you feel the conductive heat from the air touching your skin, and probably have some heat loss from the convective heat of the breeze blowing past you. SO how does air conditioning work? The refrigerant gets hot when you compress it, and cold when it expands. So you'll find a skinny high pressure line that's hot and a fat low pressure line that's cold. In it's cold state, there's a heat exchanger that takes heat out of your air. It goes outside to the outside heat exchanger where it get's compressed and really hot. Since it's hotter than the air, it can transfer heat to the outside air, where it's cooled down, when it goes back inside and condenses, it's cooler than the inside air and allows heat transfer from your air to it. To summarize...heat flows from high temp to low temp at a rate determined by temperature differential and heat transfer coefficient (determined by materials and area). Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 These units are called "swamp coolers"....they work their best in areas with low humidity....not so good in high humidity areas. They are not a "decent" alternative to regular AC. They will cool the air somewhat, again all depending on the humidity reading. If you need cool air that you can depend on you should go with a regular AC unit. That was exactly my experience with having one. Also, I had a rather large unit as well, but on very hot days - and not even necessarily particularly humid days - it didn't make that much of a difference. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 well... during my days in Tucson while in the US Air Force, we had swamp coolers and let me tell you--they worked very well. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 These units are called "swamp coolers"....they work their best in areas with low humidity....not so good in high humidity areas. They are not a "decent" alternative to regular AC. They will cool the air somewhat, again all depending on the humidity reading. If you need cool air that you can depend on you should go with a regular AC unit. That was exactly my experience with having one. Also, I had a rather large unit as well, but on very hot days - and not even necessarily particularly humid days - it didn't make that much of a difference. Thanks... that's what I was afraid of. Since I live in Southeastern PA where heat and humidity can be rather intense in July and August, an air conditioner would make more sense. Just thought I'd check out other options. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Ahh... I failed to notice your location.. How about checking out Ground-coupled heat exchanger? Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoGuyPan Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Evaporative coolers are a great alternative to AC if you live in the right place. PA isn't exactly the best place for one but here in the Southwest, they are golden. Plus they are significantly less expensive to install and operate. You can get a big one for 600 to 800 bucks. An AC will be way more. Plus they cost next to nothing to operate. AC's use a lot of electricity. In Phoenix my electric bill would jump from $80 in the winter when the AC wasn't on to $300 when it was and in the worst months, July, August and September it was over $400, that was when itnwas 117 outside. Here in Santa Fe, New Mexico, I have two swamp coolers and you only really need them for a few months out of the year but they only impact the electric bill by like ten bucks per month. You are only driving a fan with a swamp cooler so it doesn't use too much juice. Another good thing is that it is dry out here, maybe like 15% humidity outside (25% in the house typically). With the swamp coolers on, the temperature in the house will easily drop from 82 to 65 degrees and it will boost the humidity in the house to 45-50%, making it easier to breath and etter for my glowing skin. They are super popular here in New Mexico and I think they'd easily do a good job in Colorado, west Texas, Arizona, and Nevada. You'd think they'd be more popular in Phoenix since AC costs a fortune to run, but only the older homes have swamp coolers. BTW in PHX the AC still sucked, it could only maintain a 25 degree differential with the outdoor temp. when it is 110 outside it sucks to pay $300 a month to sleep in a puddle of your own sweat when the AC can only get to 85 degrees in the house. When the humidity is higher swamp coolers have less effect but I've been to several outdoor crawfish boils in Louisiana where the humidity was 90% and the temp 90 degrees and they had one of those portable swamp coolers and it really made it comfortable sitting outside pinchin tails and suckin heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 All stated above is true. I would emphasize though that you will hate yourself if you install one in an already humid environment. It takes a humid house and turns it into an insufferable steam room at which point your body's ability to transfer heat goes to zero and you basically parboil. Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 All stated above is true. I would emphasize though that you will hate yourself if you install one in an already humid environment. It takes a humid house and turns it into an insufferable steam room at which point your body's ability to transfer heat goes to zero and you basically parboil. OK, well I guess that says it all. I was trying to find a way to cool the place but spend less money on electricity. Anyone have experience with portable air conditioners that sit on the floor and vent outside? When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzzz Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 For the record, I spent a literal fortune to install a new HVAC system in my house in Scottsdale/Phoenix, replacing a 15 yr-old system. The new system is so efficient that it has cut my electric bills in half, and will pay for itself in about 7 years. "Swamp Coolers" are considered old-fashioned in this part of the world and have fallen out of favor, because they just can't provide enough cooling when the temps are over 110 degrees. I keep my house at 80 in the summer, which feels quite cool in this dry environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 well... during my days in Tucson while in the US Air Force, we had swamp coolers and let me tell you--they worked very well. Lived in Tucson for 20 years. My home had both evap(swamp) coolers and central air. The swamp coolers worked well and saved me a ton of money. As has been discussed, they are meant for dry climates. When monsoon season kicked in, it was time to run the a/c. The swamps handled cooling about 50 to 70 percent of a given summer. The nice thing, and actually suggested, you could have windows open when running the swamps. Fresh air recycling. David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom-08| Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 One problem with the swamp coolers is that most homes have them installed on the roof.....pretty unsightly. Most modern AC systems have the fan/condenser/etc installed at ground level on a concrete pad. I live in the SoCal desert and you seldom see a swamp cooler anymore in this area and our humidity is extremely low...seems to me if they worked that well that more folks would be using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I keep my house at 80 in the summer, which feels quite cool in this dry environment. Man, I'd be sweltering. 70 is about as high a temp as anything needs ever IMO. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzzz Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I keep my house at 80 in the summer, which feels quite cool in this dry environment. Man, I'd be sweltering. 70 is about as high a temp as anything needs ever IMO. Yeah, but there is truth to the dry heat thing. 80 degrees with less than 10% humidity actually feels quite cool vs 70 degrees in Ann Arbor, for instance. It can be 115 outside, and when you step out of the pool it actually feels cold because evaporation happens so quickly. I would take 105 in AZ over 85 in the midwest anytime- it truly feels more comfortable. I was out riding my road bicycle for 2 1/2 hours in nearly 100 degree heat and never felt hot. Gotta stay hydrated, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I would take 105 in AZ over 85 in the midwest anytime- it truly feels more comfortable. _________________________________________________________________ So true...I live in the Coachella Valley (Palm Springs area) and the humidity at this time of year is almost always under 10%. We don't pay much attention to the heat until the temp gets over 110 and that is usually only in July/August. We keep our indoor temp at 84 and use our indoor fans which cuts down the useage of the AC system significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I agree with the above: I wouldn't use a swamp cooler indoors in a humid climate. I do have a contrary data point, though, but the lesson learned from it is limited. There's a local music festival here every year on the 4th of July weekend. IMHO, terrible timing: it's typically 100 degrees in the shade and over 90% humidity. I used to volunteer as a stage assistant or stage manager -- the assistant is the best gig because I could hang out backstage with the musos while preparing to get them set up for the next act. Best seat in the house! Back to my point. For the entertainers, they have a hut with food and swamp coolers. It's partially open to the outdoors. The coolers don't make it nice in there, but they do make a big difference. When you walk in it feels like a huge relief. After a while you get used to it and notice you're sweating quite a bit. So you walk back outside and get hit by a wall of hotter air, realizing it really was cooler back in there. At this show, everyone sweats. A lot. Enjoy it. Fortunately the women don't wear much, and the music is great. No way I'd want one in my house though, except in an arid climate. I bet it would wreak havoc on electronic gear. Another possible downside is if you belive that we should conserve fresh water. I don't know how much they use, but I bet it's no small figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I keep my house at 80 in the summer, which feels quite cool in this dry environment. Man, I'd be sweltering. 70 is about as high a temp as anything needs ever IMO. Yeah, but there is truth to the dry heat thing. 80 degrees with less than 10% humidity actually feels quite cool vs 70 degrees in Ann Arbor, for instance. It can be 115 outside, and when you step out of the pool it actually feels cold because evaporation happens so quickly. I would take 105 in AZ over 85 in the midwest anytime- it truly feels more comfortable. I was out riding my road bicycle for 2 1/2 hours in nearly 100 degree heat and never felt hot. Gotta stay hydrated, though! Yeah, I know all about dry heat, but you're also talking to a guy who doesn't wear a jacket until it hits 20 A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 These units are called "swamp coolers"....they work their best in areas with low humidity Got to ask... Swamps are, well, swampy. High humidity environments. If these don't work in high humidity environments, why are they called "Swamp Coolers" Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 I'm hoping that one day we'll have some type of "digital" cooling that's efficient, lightweight and inexpensive to operate. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 To Steve Nathan: Wikipedia says "In the United States, the use of the term swamp cooler may be due to the odor of algae produced by early units." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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