Live performance brass section

[Charleston]

I haven't bought a modern synth/rompler in a while (except for the EV's on the SK1). Still hanging on to an old Qs6. I am impressed by this video below (probably old news for most of you). Most YT vids and demos I've found don't really show good brass performances.

 

In the past I always had to find a brass patch that was decent enough to get by in a gig, couldn't do much more than bends/vibrato. I don't know crap about wind instruments, or the terminology, but the guy in the video is doing fades, glides, etc...lots of cool stuff. Is he using a foot pedal also? Looks like this patch would be good for funk/groove?

 

Is this patch common on all current Yamaha boards?

Or is this guy just a really good programmer?

Or is this just par for today?

Are there other hardware synths that have brass sections that sound, and are controllable like this (without tons of programming)?

I have NI Sax & Brass, but haven't figured out how to layer all the elements and control properly, but it would be easier to just find a hardware-based solution anyway.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Another vid I found. I think this is a Yamaha on top of the Hammond, but don't know which model:

[video:youtube]

[David Loving]

Maze is really good - that solo on what looks like an X50 is what I'm going to use an XW-P1 for. Nothing wrong with the synth horns, IMO

[SpaceNorman]

Is this patch common on all current Yamaha boards?

 

I think that's Yamaha's "VeloFalls" brass patch. It's one my favorite brass patches - lots of dynamics within the patch itself. The "fall" (which I suspect is what you're calling out as a fade) is triggered by velocity. Play a sustained chord with that patch and the sound "swells" a little bit as well. Played through a stereo setup - it sounds great.

[Lord_Nord]

sounds a little Brash

[Charleston]

Maze is really good - that solo on what looks like an X50 is what I'm going to use an XW-P1 for. Nothing wrong with the synth horns, IMO

 

Yeah, that keyboard player tears it up. Lot a funkin' goin on. Yes, I bet the XW-P1 would do well for that solo.

[Charleston]

Is this patch common on all current Yamaha boards?

 

I think that's Yamaha's "VeloFalls" brass patch. It's one my favorite brass patches - lots of dynamics within the patch itself. The "fall" (which I suspect is what you're calling out as a fade) is triggered by velocity. Play a sustained chord with that patch and the sound "swells" a little bit as well. Played through a stereo setup - it sounds great.

 

I see. That swell sounds nice. I'll try to find that patch if I can find one to demo. Thanks!

[Tobias Åslund]

No, that's not an X50. X50 is even smaller and has a handle on each side. I think it looks like an old Roland D50, which in this case is probably used only as a midi keyboard.

 

An X50 could do both pretty good brass as well as that type of lead. The brass presets has nice swell presets, but there is no sampled falls. Korg leads are very good as always, IMHO.

[stillplaying]

I've used the NI Sax and Brass live (horn section away on a better paid gig).

 

Through a quality PA - did the job for staccato riffs and single line runs.

 

Most stuff I've heard still sounds like a kazoo.

 

 

[CEB]

Velo Falls and Power Section are two Yamaha patches I use the most.

 

Often I get the best result by mixing 2 different brass patches. (I don't do this with velo falls) Usually one is really bright and brash and another one with more guts to it.

[Jaime Chimuelo]

Screaming Trumpet for the above the top solo Maynard style, with CHein Horns collection for everything else.

Use footswitches to control the various Keyswitched Articulations. Rather have some flexibilty and control of the swells length, portamento Glides, etc.

To each his own....

[Synthoid]

Often I get the best result by mixing 2 different brass patches.

 

+1

 

I normally use my Korg Triton or M3 when playing live and stack up brass patches in combination mode. The same applies with my strings and other acoustic patches. This gives many options, such as tuning instruments to different octaves as well as adjusting individual EQ and other effects.

[J. Dan]

If you want to program patches yourself, it's all in the pitch and volume envelopes and using velocity to change the levels/times, etc. There are patches like that in the Kronos as well, though you could probably pull it off in any Triton or M3 the same way.

 

The fall can be done either by velocity switching to a sample of a brass fall, which sounds most realistic, or using an envelope on the pitch to create the fall, then velocity to control the amount of the envelope.

 

The swells are programmed into tha amp envelope. You need an EG that has a break point prior to the sustain. So it breaks at a lower volume, then swells up to the sustain level. Alternately, you can use aftertouch to add swell.

[SpaceNorman]

Often I get the best result by mixing 2 different brass patches.

 

+1

 

I normally use my Korg Triton or M3 when playing live and stack up brass patches in combination mode. The same applies with my strings and other acoustic patches. This gives many options, such as tuning instruments to different octaves as well as adjusting individual EQ and other effects.

 

I'm using this technique alot now that I've added a Kronos to my gig rig. With the Kronos slider controls at your fingertips - adjusting the blend between voices while performing can really help synth brass sound more dynamic. These days - I often find myself using one of the "section" voices combined with a single instrument voice (I really like some of the 'bone voices as the "single instrument voice!). I mix the initial volume settings of the multi- mode preset as a section - and then bring up the 'bone voice with the slider just a hair when using the preset live. This, played in conjunction with a real sax player can sound killer. I'm using on Chicago's "Beginnings" - and am not ashamed to say, it's instant "sccchhhhaaawwwiiinnnngggg" every time I play it.

[area51recording]

That's a really cool idea! Bet it makes things sound much less static

[Mark Zeger]

Charleston, hire a real trumpet player. Will play for BBQ.

[Charleston]

Charleston, hire a real trumpet player. Will play for BBQ.

 

Pig roast before gigs? I'm down with that.

 

OT, but I remember seeing some brass players use harmonizers live. Do they still do this?

[Charleston]

Screaming Trumpet for the above the top solo Maynard style, with CHein Horns collection for everything else.

Use footswitches to control the various Keyswitched Articulations. Rather have some flexibilty and control of the swells length, portamento Glides, etc.

To each his own....

 

I bet that sounds good. If they would box that up in a module, with all the preset work already done, I bet it would sell like hotcakes.

[Mark Zeger]

OT, but I remember seeing some brass players use harmonizers live. Do they still do this?

.

Have never seen or heard this. While in James Taylor's band, Walt Fowler played trumpet with his right hand and filled out chords with his left hand on a Motif, along with Lou Marini on sax. Sounded as great as you'd expect.

 

Re: pig roast. To quote Jules Winfield, "I don't dig on swine." I know BBQ means pork butt or whole hog but I'll have the chicken.

[Synthoid]

I normally use my Korg Triton or M3 when playing live and stack up brass patches in combination mode. The same applies with my strings and other acoustic patches. This gives many options, such as tuning instruments to different octaves as well as adjusting individual EQ and other effects.

 

I'm using this technique alot now that I've added a Kronos to my gig rig. With the Kronos slider controls at your fingertips - adjusting the blend between voices while performing can really help synth brass sound more dynamic.

 

I've been very satisfied with Korg workstations for 12 years now. It didn't take long to learn my way around the Triton... then most of that knowledge was transferred over to the M3 a few years later. I'd love to buy a Kronos but it's not in the budget.

 

Thing is, whether it's a M3, Motif, Kurzweil PC3 series, etc., I like the flexibility of stacking sounds to build an ensemble effect. I rarely use individual programs on my keyboards except for organs and the occasional sound effect.

 

[J. Dan]

I'm using on Chicago's "Beginnings" - and am not ashamed to say, it's instant "sccchhhhaaawwwiiinnnngggg" every time I play it.

 

That's in my new band's list, so I'll be learning it. Do you just do left hand horn section and right hand soloing of the individual horns? Do you switch horn voices for the different solos? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to doing this, but know that I'll probably end up spending a lot of time on it just because I'm sort of anal like that.

[Joe Muscara]

Re: pig roast. To quote Jules Winfield, "I don't dig on swine." I know BBQ means pork butt or whole hog but I'll have the chicken.

What "BBQ" means depends on where you go. Very commonly here in Houston and lots of Texas it mostly means smoked brisket.

 

http://doziersbbq.com/Resources/brisketwebhib.jpeg

 

But there are other pork, chicken, sausage options as well.

[J. Dan]

Re: pig roast. To quote Jules Winfield, "I don't dig on swine." I know BBQ means pork butt or whole hog but I'll have the chicken.

What "BBQ" means depends on where you go. Very commonly here in Houston and lots of Texas it mostly means smoked brisket.

 

.... ....

 

But there are other pork, chicken, sausage options as well.

 

Even though we are close to KC and Memphis, I have to say Texas BBQ is my favorite. I like it less sweet and with some kick. It seems like they do it right in Texas. We have the Rib America Festival here in St. Louis every year and you can sample BBQ from all the different regions - they are basically companies that tour and compete. Always a great time - great music all weekend, great food, beer of course....though I'm sure Tom would disapprove of the brands available.

 

Incidentally, around St. Louis, it's common to have smoked brisket, ribs, tips, and pulled pork. Most places provide several varieties of sauces ranging from sweet to spicy with variations in between. I don't know if I'm educated enough to give an accurate take, but it seems like the North Carolina style is sort of mustardy, memphis is sweet, KC just seems like normal off the shelf BBQ sauce for these parts, and Texas is the smokier spicier variety. Let the games begin.

[Mark Zeger]

Joe, I meant that it's all about pork for Carolina BBQ. I prefer Texas style brisket.

[SpaceNorman]

That's in my new band's list, so I'll be learning it. Do you just do left hand horn section and right hand soloing of the individual horns? Do you switch horn voices for the different solos? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to doing this, but know that I'll probably end up spending a lot of time on it just because I'm sort of anal like that.

 

The horns parts fall to our sax player and I. My voicings purely focus on the "brass" facet of the horn section - with a combi patch that consists of a "section" voice as a basis combined with a trombone voice (the one I'm using has alot of "lip" in it...) and a trumpet voice (the one I'm using has some "growl" to it).

 

The sax player and I harmonize the "intro" horn solo (during which I bring the trombone voice to the front with the slider). During the verses - I dial back the trombone voice to shoot for more of a blended brass section sound - and block the verse chords using the expression pedal to "swell" them as smoothly as I can behind the vocals.

 

During the extended solo / outtro section - the sax player and I harmonize the "latin-esgue" horn lines (I bump up the trumpet voice for these parts) ... and then we trade licks with me using the trombone voice again. When we're done - we repeat one of the harmonized "latin-esque" horn lines twice - and end it.

 

I use my right hand to play any/all of the horn lead lines I cover - and use my right hand to play a somewhat mellow organ patch (octave shifted so that it's comfortable to play - and kept pretty low in the blend with an expression pedal).

 

To be honest, I think what really makes it work for us is the real sax. It's enough real horn to take the "synth" edge off the brass (both in terms of tone - and as much as I hate to say it out loud, my keyboard player emulation of a horn player).

[Joe Muscara]

If y'all are so into Texas style brisket, c'mon down, y'hear?

 

[um, I can't really do that, I'm from NY, yous. But I'd love to take you to some great BBQ places if you visit. ]

[Synthoid]

What "BBQ" means depends on where you go. Very commonly here in Houston and lots of Texas it mostly means smoked brisket.

 

http://doziersbbq.com/Resources/brisketwebhib.jpeg

 

 

Break out the brew and we'll party!

[Joe Muscara]

http://girlvsbeer.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/shiner.jpg

 

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink005.gif

[The Real MC]

I used to do a lot of business travel. I really enjoyed trying the different foods, esp cajun and BBQ. Texas, Louisianna, and KC really know how to cook.

[J. Dan]

That's in my new band's list, so I'll be learning it. Do you just do left hand horn section and right hand soloing of the individual horns? Do you switch horn voices for the different solos? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to doing this, but know that I'll probably end up spending a lot of time on it just because I'm sort of anal like that.

 

The horns parts fall to our sax player and I. My voicings purely focus on the "brass" facet of the horn section - with a combi patch that consists of a "section" voice as a basis combined with a trombone voice (the one I'm using has alot of "lip" in it...) and a trumpet voice (the one I'm using has some "growl" to it).

 

The sax player and I harmonize the "intro" horn solo (during which I bring the trombone voice to the front with the slider). During the verses - I dial back the trombone voice to shoot for more of a blended brass section sound - and block the verse chords using the expression pedal to "swell" them as smoothly as I can behind the vocals.

 

During the extended solo / outtro section - the sax player and I harmonize the "latin-esgue" horn lines (I bump up the trumpet voice for these parts) ... and then we trade licks with me using the trombone voice again. When we're done - we repeat one of the harmonized "latin-esque" horn lines twice - and end it.

 

I use my right hand to play any/all of the horn lead lines I cover - and use my right hand to play a somewhat mellow organ patch (octave shifted so that it's comfortable to play - and kept pretty low in the blend with an expression pedal).

 

To be honest, I think what really makes it work for us is the real sax. It's enough real horn to take the "synth" edge off the brass (both in terms of tone - and as much as I hate to say it out loud, my keyboard player emulation of a horn player).

 

Well, since I'm the sax player, too, I'll probably need to cover it all with keys...unless I can talk the one guitar player into playing some key horns during my sax parts....but he plays an XP80...not gonna cut it for horns. I think I'll be better off just doing all key horns.

[ksoper]

If y'all are so into Texas style brisket, c'mon down, y'hear?

 

 

A Yankee myself, I didn't know what the Texans were talking about when they said tri-tip. And then they put brisket on my plate. Aw hell, I said, this is brisket. No, they replied, it's tri-tip. Well, whatever you want to call it, it was delicious.