Upgrade or retrograde?

[skipclone 1]

Hey there

Well recently I got myself a really good OD/distortion pedal. I am in the process of putting together the best sound rig I can, within reason.

Before I start worrying about amps, I am looking at my effects situation. I have my vintage ART unit, which is quite versatile and still able to do some good sounds-but the one I have is functioning at about 40% of its capacity. It has long since been discontinued, ART said they don`t have parts to repair it. There are units on ebay for pretty cheap and I have the last software upgrade chip they made. But if I get another unit it will be a matter of time before that one craps out too, I`ll be piling up a lot of electronic rubbish. Should I just ditch the thing and get something completely new, or keep jumping from unit to unit and use the savings for other things, like getting a better amp?

[picker]

I'd go with something more current, if for no other reason than I am a terrible packrat. I'd have piles of chassis' for parts laying around, and I have no place to put the stuff I already have piled up.

[Gabriel E.]

I'd thank the ART unit for years of loyal use and replace it with something current. Figure that you can get a massive amount of processing power for not too much $$ these days.

[J. Dan]

Yeah, for the money, you can get an aweful lot these days, and it's likely to be cleaner as well - from what I call, some of the older ART stuff was a bit on the noisey side compared to what you can get these days.

[Bluesape]

I got away from multi fx procs cuz of the downtime, and that the Zoom units I had were very cheaply built, with jacks soldered to the PCB in the flimsy plastic casings. They just didn't hold up, plus I never used more than 5 or 6 settings, including the wah. Myles says get a great basic amp with out board fx, which I agree with, cuz the amp is central to your sound, and if a single fx unit fails, and they do, the gig can go on in mere seconds. I get all the OD/distortion ya could ever ask for from my Mesa, and great cleans to boot. The other fx are nice, but not dealbreakers if something goes down. I could also be happy with a great tube single channel amp, as long as I had a great OD/distortion box to add to the signal. Rob Rose has a Soldano SLO pedal that is the most impressive box I've ever heard! Add chorus, delay, reverb, and wah, and ya got most bases covered. Ya could certainly go nuts with a multi unit, which is fine as long as you're not hobbled without it. I would sort out which amp I wanted first, cuz the amp will determine which fx shine with it, and which would be redundant.

[Scott Fraser]

I'm totally bucking the trend here, using rack FX units that are at least 20 years old, for the simple fact that no modern units have the same feature set as the older ones. I use combinations of extreme warpers like ring modulators, pitch shifters & reverse gated early reflection patterns, while most current multi-FX concentrate on vast menus of different flavors of distortion. Also, my amps are simply means of broadcasting & contribute nothing to the overall sound, other than volume. And I don't play rock. So, my opinion is highly suspect at best, but I'd keep the old units going as long as possible if they provide features you need.

[SEHpicker]

I know most on this forum prefer the multi-pedal set-up, but I gotta tell ya - my Boss GT-10 is a single unit, does-it-all device that sounds fantastic and really has about everything I'd ever need for my sound. I agree that there are task-specific stomps that may be a bit better for that one effect you are looking for, but the ease of use and variety of FX at the tap of a switch on the GT-10 is hard to beat.

[skipclone 1]

Ya I`m really not interested in multi pedals, for reasons I`ve been over before. Too many wire connectors to worry about-there`s a bad connection, now where is it? and it never ends-you want to sound like XXX but your pedals don`t cover it-get another pedal. Sounds like more time shopping than playing.

I need a wide sound pallette personally-not a roots guy. A hybrid system is best for me, a good OD/dist. but also spacy stuff when I need it.

Anyway the ART I have was top of the line at trhe time, it still has an amazing versatility when it`s at full function. 475 presets in four separate banks, including vocal patches.

Sampling, tuner, reference tone etc. Well you can hear it on my most recent soundclick song. Still, I`m leaning toward something current-just not 100% convinced yet.

[Winston Psmith]

I'm sort of in Scott's camp - all of my rack gear is from the last century, except for one new Furman power strip, and my floor multi-effects (a Boss GT-3 & an AdrenaLinn I) are at least ten years old, but I also have an extensive pedal collection, to augment the other gear. If I were going to go for one self-contained multi-effects system, right now, with cost being no object, I'd have to look into the T.C. Electronics G-System - here. Otherwise, I'd consider the new Boss GT-100, at least, once they start arriving in stores. I've seen/heard the T.C. in a live setting, and it's an amazing system, but it had no OD/Dist. effects, IIRC. The GT-100 will have OD/Dist and amp modeling effects, along with all of your favorite Mod & Delay effects, and more. Boss/Roland gear has always stood up for me. I've been using my GT-3 for about ten years, and it's still going strong, whereas my ART Multiverb II died within three or four years. Never tried any of the small, cheap Digitech/Korg/Zoom floor units you see for $80-100US - not enough depth of programming, even if I could be convinced of their longevity, which I'm not.

[skipclone 1]

I toyed around with the G-system and was impressed by the sounds. But there were some pretty scathing reviews at HC, for the price I decided against it. I`m leaning toward the Nova system, which except for the lack of a send after the overdrive section seems a good alternative-the G-system was expensive for reasons that confuse me.

I have a separate OD/dist, so wouldn`t need it in a multi.

Yeah the GT-100 seems promising-maybe another good choice.

The Digitech/Korg/Zoom stuff-well I had a Zoom 105 for a while and it pissed me off so much that the public was at risk. No thanks.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Should I just ditch the thing and get something completely new, or keep jumping from unit to unit and use the savings for other things, like getting a better amp?

 

Get the best amp you can, or get the best modeler/multi-effects that you can and a really good stereo power-amp and two 1x12 or 2x12 cabs (unless going DI to a PA and/or monitors is a viable option for you).

 

Are you primarily going to be playing in a studio/recording setting, or live, or lots of both?

[skipclone 1]

I`m not a big fan of running through PAs unless I have a reliable way to hear what`s going on. I went to see a friend`s band a couple of weeks ago

and, I`m not sure what they were hearing through the monitors but the mains were crackling quite badly on the lows. He only heard it when someone sat in and we were talking while they were playing.

Anyway for the short term my concern is recording but, I don`t want to focus on that so much that I`m lost at sea with a live band, or vice versa. I`ve had people tell me that, well if you sing you need your own mic, so you always know your sound.

No, what I need is a new career. Then I can have all my own everything.

Since that seems unlikely and I live in Japan, an amp with extension cabs is like building a doghouse and then buying an elephant.

Anyway, recording is the stuff for now.

Thanks for the great feedback guys.

[Winston Psmith]

Quick addendum, Skip - if recording is your first priority, you might want to look for something that also has a USB Audio Out. More and more multi-effects units have this feature now, and it can save you the cost of yet another breakout box.

[CEB]

I'm going the hybrid route and I like it but my stuff is ancient but it is paid for. Also I know how to program my multi effect effect unit pretty well. But that Fender Mustang Floor is something I want to check out when the local store gets one in.

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/DSCF0130.jpg

[desertbluesman]

My take on it is: Mostly the newer stuff sounds great and a lot of the old stuff sounds mediocre.

[skipclone 1]

Good point WP-but for now it`s kind of a hassle to download stuff since I don`t have my own pc yet-I know, it sounds like

I don`t have my own shoes. I`m working on it.

 

dbm-ya maybe but obviously it`s not a black/white issue. I agree with CEB that a hybrid system is the way to go, combine the best of old and new, single pedal and multi. But it depends on what you play. Some people are perfecltly happy with a guitar and an amp all night. I am not that person.

[Winston Psmith]

I'm going the hybrid route and I like it but my stuff is ancient but it is paid for. Also I know how to program my multi effect effect unit pretty well. But that Fender Mustang Floor is something I want to check out when the local store gets one in.

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/DSCF0130.jpg

 

Ah, CEB, if you ever want to trade GT-3 patches, send me a PM, or an email. I've been abusing one of those things for nearly ten years, and it's my mainstay for a quick, one-hand rig. Great fun, especially if you're willing to dig in, and get weird. Funny thing, IME, the two biggest failings on the GT-3 are the limited Delay time, and the Wah, but I see you've already dealt with those issues. Very cool . . . I often put a Guyatone SV2 Slow Volume in front of mine - lets me get Slow Gear-into-Feedbacker effects - and I'm thinking about patching an ME-50 into the Ext OD Loop. Yes, I'm insane . . .

 

BTW, from what I've seen so far, there are still effects in the GT-3 that the Mustang won't have, like the Slicer - not sure about the Guitar Synth, either.

[CEB]

...

 

BTW, from what I've seen so far, there are still effects in the GT-3 that the Mustang won't have, like the Slicer - not sure about the Guitar Synth, either.

 

Damn I use both of those. I use a Gated Synth patch during the beginning of Gunpowder and Lead and I use the Slicer on Country Girl Shake it for Me.

[skipclone 1]

Ya, there`s two points that the single pedal fans have about multis-the OD/distortion is generally just okay and the `expression pedals` are generally even worse, especially wah.

But as I say, combine `em and you`re goog to go.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Ya, there`s two points that the single pedal fans have about multis-the OD/distortion is generally just okay and the `expression pedals` are generally even worse, especially wah.

But as I say, combine `em and you`re goog to go.

 

Much agreed; I put a bunch of my favorite pedals- all of 'em all-analog except for one- in front of a digital-modeler/multi-effects unit going direct to the PA and monitors (and I often wear headphones from it, as well).

 

I also usually take one of the stereo-outs from the next-to-last pedal in line before the modeler/mfx, and send that to a real live tube-amp, for a fatter, fuller, all-around more betterer sound. Sometimes I mic or take a direct-send from the tube-amp via a speaker-emulator; but more often I don't mic it or anything at all.

[Winston Psmith]

Ya, there`s two points that the single pedal fans have about multis-the OD/distortion is generally just okay and the `expression pedals` are generally even worse, especially wah.

But as I say, combine `em and you`re goog to go.

 

Digital Wah = why bother? I'm glad all the OD/Dist effects in my GT-3 are Analog, and I use them all except the Fuzz. Somehow, Boss has never gotten a Fuzz effect that I really liked.

 

Something that occurred to me - you may want to look for a multi-effects unit that has some kind of Ext Send/Return loop, so you can insert your Overdrive pedal after the Wah or Compressor effects, for example. It's a useful but often overlooked feature.

 

To me, the main limitation of almost any multi-effects unit is what Craig Anderton calls the "One-from-column-A" approach, in that you can't have two effects from the same effects block, OD/MOD/DLY. (I admit, fixed effects algorithms are worse, but you hardly ever see them anymore.) That gets to be a pain, and it's part of why a lot of us use pedal effects along with our multi-effects, or even wind up chaining multi-effects.

[Terrell]

I'm totally bucking the trend here, using rack FX units that are at least 20 years old, for the simple fact that no modern units have the same feature set as the older ones. I use combinations of extreme warpers like ring modulators, pitch shifters & reverse gated early reflection patterns, while most current multi-FX concentrate on vast menus of different flavors of distortion. Also, my amps are simply means of broadcasting & contribute nothing to the overall sound, other than volume. And I don't play rock. So, my opinion is highly suspect at best, but I'd keep the old units going as long as possible if they provide features you need.

 

We have similar trend bucking uhm trends, except I do play rock. So, I'm truly suspect...

 

There is still nothing that replaces the PCM80, GP8, Pro Gap or Fireworx for me. That's the FOH and SSL Engineer showing through.

[Scott Fraser]

We have similar trend bucking uhm trends, except I do play rock. So, I'm truly suspect...

 

Yup, highly suspected of being suspect.

 

There is still nothing that replaces the PCM80,

 

Except another Lex, like a PCM90.

 

GP8,

 

I use a GX700, but same basic thing.

 

Pro Gap or Fireworx for me. That's the FOH and SSL Engineer showing through.

 

I've been carrying a FireWorx in my FOH rack, for my non-guitar-playing day job of mixing concert tours, & I have to say it's a real pain in the ass to program & edit, & I've never liked the reverb quality, at least not compared to other TC boxes. But, it's certainly a step up from most guitar oriented processors. We're working on replacing our hardware processors with software soon.

[Terrell]

We have similar trend bucking uhm trends, except I do play rock. So, I'm truly suspect...

 

Yup, highly suspected of being suspect.

 

There is still nothing that replaces the PCM80,

 

Except another Lex, like a PCM90.

 

GP8,

 

I use a GX700, but same basic thing.

 

Pro Gap or Fireworx for me. That's the FOH and SSL Engineer showing through.

 

I've been carrying a FireWorx in my FOH rack, for my non-guitar-playing day job of mixing concert tours, & I have to say it's a real pain in the ass to program & edit, & I've never liked the reverb quality, at least not compared to other TC boxes. But, it's certainly a step up from most guitar oriented processors. We're working on replacing our hardware processors with software soon.

 

Fireworx is a bitch to program, but you can do ANYTHING! Map any parameter to any trigger or any combination of anything. It's a tweakers dream and nightmare rolled into one. I still can't believe they didn't release a sysex software editor for it. Complexity always follows capability. It needed a giant screen like an Eventide. I agree the reverb sucks, hence the PCM80.

 

Damnit you one upped me on the PCM90, yes it's better...

 

The GP8 was analog pedals on IC (until the loop and time effects), so not quite the same thing, but damn close.

 

Are you guys going with M-Audio / Avid stuff?

 

Imagine a laptop on the pedal board with mechanical foot pedals that pushed on keys. Jimmyphoton could build one of those right?

[Scott Fraser]

Fireworx is a bitch to program, but you can do ANYTHING! Map any parameter to any trigger or any combination of anything. It's a tweakers dream and nightmare rolled into one.

 

My feeling exactly. I needed something that could do a lot of stuff simultaneously. It's been a mixed blessing.

 

I still can't believe they didn't release a sysex software editor for it. Complexity always follows capability. It needed a giant screen like an Eventide. I agree the reverb sucks, hence the PCM80.

Damnit you one upped me on the PCM90, yes it's better...

 

But certainly in the same camp. We used to carry a PCM80, but I needed multiFX, & a lot of house racks in the performing arts centers/concert halls we play have Lexicons. So I ditched the PCM80 when I got the FireWorx. A step up & a step down at the same time.

 

The GP8 was analog pedals on IC (until the loop and time effects), so not quite the same thing, but damn close.

 

For my guitar rig, (not the touring concert rig,) I'm fairly committed at this point to replacing my GX700 with a GT10 to lighten the rack & allow cutting one (of two) racks from the schlep. Newer better converters, more performance friendly, several new FX algorithms, still the weird warpy stuff like ring modulators, etc, hands free patch changes, & MIDI pgm messages to other units.

 

Are you guys going with M-Audio / Avid stuff?

 

The plan at the moment is to replace Live with QLab for playback cues, with QLab triggering program changes in Logic Mainstage for effects in software. We're still working on the fact that no plugin host seems to have any MIDI implementation for plugin preset selection, so it requires a weird kludge to call up a large number of different effects throughout the course of a concert, which has a different set list every night. We're using MOTU interfaces. An UltraLite for playback, & looking at getting another one for FX processing.

 

Imagine a laptop on the pedal board with mechanical foot pedals that pushed on keys. Jimmyphoton could build one of those right?

 

If PinkJimi gets a hold of this design it will end up with several dozen different fuzzes feeding phaser/resonators that go "Yoy yoy yoy". I'll give him a call after breakfast.

[Terrell]

Are you guys going with M-Audio / Avid stuff?

 

The plan at the moment is to replace Live with QLab for playback cues, with QLab triggering program changes in Logic Mainstage for effects in software. We're still working on the fact that no plugin host seems to have any MIDI implementation for plugin preset selection, so it requires a weird kludge to call up a large number of different effects throughout the course of a concert, which has a different set list every night. We're using MOTU interfaces. An UltraLite for playback, & looking at getting another one for FX processing.

 

I've heard good things about the AVID Venue platform. We've been building it into house systems at consultants requests.

 

Well, good things except for the $$$,$$$.00, which is actually also a good thing for me...

[Scott Fraser]

I've heard good things about the AVID Venue platform. We've been building it into house systems at consultants requests.

Well, good things except for the $$$,$$$.00, which is actually also a good thing for me...

 

Yeah, they're decent boards, with a few cost saving shortcuts I don't much like. Sonics on them are good, GUI is mostly OK. I have never gotten it to correctly save, then load a show from a USB stick, something I do all the time with Yamaha desks. However, I can't carry a board. We fly to all our dates, & all our gear goes as checked baggage, so no more than 50 pounds a piece. Eventually somebody will come up with a controller which is portable, lightweight, user friendly & reliable. Until then it's a new desk every night.

[Winston Psmith]

Scott, if you do go with the GT-10, there are some fun effects in there, that you won't find in older Boss/Roland units. The Ring Mod is pretty cool, and you can assign the Exp pedal to control the Frequency, but you also have to make friends with the Slicer (rhythmic Trem), the Guitar Synth and the Auto Riff. Those are why I chose the GT-3 over the GT-5, at the time. The GT-10 also has a more versatile Delay effect, and a built-in Looper.

 

FWIW, Boss is shipping, or getting ready to ship the new GT-100, so prices should be coming down on the GT-10. If not, you may want to hold out for the newer model.

 

Now, if I could only find an old GP-100 . . .

[Scott Fraser]

FWIW, Boss is shipping, or getting ready to ship the new GT-100, so prices should be coming down on the GT-10. If not, you may want to hold out for the newer model.

 

There was some reason I felt the GT10 more appropriate for me than the GT100, but I can't remember what it was. Maybe they left out some of the weirditude in favor of more amp models. I forget. But in comparing effects building blocks, the GT10 was not lacking any of what the GX700 has, & the GX700 is a sound design monster, so I know I'll be happy with this.

[happydog]

I would go for something new. I have a lot of respect for multi-FX units, and some of them sound great. I went through a Zoom unit and a Digitech multi-FX box, and I'm back to floor pedals. I am a total caveman, though, and I like twisting knobs to make new noises happen, so don't go by me. But sometimes things need to be retired.