Richard W Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Just amazing to listen to--what a great tone--what a great line. Chris Squire "Roundabout" isolated bass. "Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yuck. Horrible bass tone. Miserable bass line. No wonder I never liked that group. What were the words about anyway? The group did have great album covers. The inside cover of Fragile, the album from which the song came, was pretty slick. I'm glad you liked it, Richard. Please don't take my comments personally. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Take it personally? Of course not. You can't help it if you don't know anything. "Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Pretty much defines how I'd least like my bass to sound. It work in the overall mix though. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Now I remember why I hate using a pick on a bass. Horrible ! "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Fragile wasn't very well recorded overall (can't listen to the clip at work, but I have heard isolated bass tracks from yes material before). It was a bit rushed due to the change of keyboardists and Rick Wakeman coming in sort of last minute. Of course, it's what works in the mix that counts. The Yes Album remains my favourite for overall balance between the instruments and a cohesive overall sound. haven't heard those bass line soloed. Interestingly, I go for a more trebly sound live -- to cut through the band -- and a less trebly sound in the studio. This is probably the opposite of Chris Squire's approach. Eugenio Upright, 60th Ann P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico Bari, Dano Bari Select Strat/Tele, Am Pro Jazzmaster, LP 57 Gold, G5422DC-12, T486, T64, PM2, EXL1, XK4, Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lug Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 For me, Squire's genius is in his writing. He has come up with the most offbeat counter-melodies that just make no sense at all outside the song yet sit so perfectly in context. His sound get's him notice, but his writing is where it's at. You can stop now -jeremyc STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele C. Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Squire was one of my favorite player of the period, with Jack Bruce and Greg Lake, not to mention McCartney. Each of them used the bass without someone telling them what was the righ way.Squire had an excellent scene presence too: hieratic in his long dresses. As for sound, I like his tone and I like fret growl and overdrive. I am frowned upon when I indulge in this habits, but I keep doing it at times. -- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groove Mama Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Squire had an excellent scene presence too: hieratic in his long dresses. Wow, that's pretty bad, when a non-native English speaker sends me running to the dictionary. Good on ya, Michele! Queen of the Quarter Note "Think like a drummer, not like a singer, and play much less." -- Michele C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele C. Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Wow, that's pretty bad, when a non-native English speaker sends me running to the dictionary. Good on ya, Michele! Thank you Mama, fact is that some difficult terms have a latin radix and are more familiar for an Italian speaker :-). I recognize that the word might not be common even in my language. -- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 and for you native English speakers, "radix" means root or origin. "Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russkull Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Yuck. Horrible bass tone. Pretty much defines how I'd least like my bass to sound. Agreed. But this is basically the same conversation we had about some of McCartney's lines. As Mark said, what really counts is: [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tdu4uKSZ3M&feature=related The clacky slap of the pick and the ringing overtones are all but lost in the overall mix. This is something for me personally to keep in mind as I record music - the tone I like and what sounds good soloed may not be what works best for the song. "Of all the world's bassists, I'm one of them!" - Lug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 ^^^^^ I agree with Russ... sitting out there by its lonesome, that bass tone is a little unsatisfying, but it works (at least to my ears, anyway) for the overall mix. There's a lot of stuff happening in the song, and perhaps a more typical "nice" bass tone wouldn't have had as much of an impact. I kind of like it, and I should also admit that I'm really not a Yes fan. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hearing the full song, it's clear he's really playing lead guitar on the bass. It sounds as if Steve Howe is mostly playing rhythm on an acoustic through much of the song. It's the bass and the keyboards doing most of the heavy lifting. How much of his tone is the Rickenbacker I assume he's playing? "Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 He's also playing round wound strings with a pick. The picture shows him picking right down at the bridge. The sound confirms all that and also that the action is pretty low. The Rick is perfect for this sound, but I don't think it's necessary. With the same kind of technique and strings, I think I could pull that sound out of a P bass. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 And linked at that same site is probably the polar opposite of Squire's tone, via John Paul Jones: http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/03/27/john-paul-jones-what-is-and-what-should-never-be-isolated-bass-track/ If not for that link, I would never have known about Squackett, the new collaboration with Steve Hackett: http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/01/21/chris-squire-and-steve-hackett-to-release-collaborative-album-as-squackett/ It's nice to see the older guys try something new now and then instead of depending solely on the tried and true. And I'm one of those who liked GTR (better live than in the studio though, if you've heard their live CD's). Eugenio Upright, 60th Ann P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico Bari, Dano Bari Select Strat/Tele, Am Pro Jazzmaster, LP 57 Gold, G5422DC-12, T486, T64, PM2, EXL1, XK4, Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottom End Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 IIRC, Squire used a metal coin as a plectrum, as well, which makes those quick little runs even more remarkable. That grinding yet trebly tone is unique and instantly identifiable as both a Rick and Squire playing it. You can tell he's really hitting the strings at times. It's a great bass line, alone or in the mix. "Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me.'-Hamlet Guitar solos last 30 seconds, the bass line lasts for the whole song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo-London Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Yes he is pounding the strings - I've always appreciated his tone, but this track makes me wonder somewhat. It feels like he is playing way too hard. Anyway it works in the mix so no worries. Davo "We will make you bob your head whether you want to or not". - David Sisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02R96 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 But isn't that dirty, trebley tone what Chris Squire is known for? It really stands out in the mix, plus a little post processing on the track could enhance more of the lower end. Does anyone know how raw this take is: that is, is it dry or after Eddie Offord massaged it? Could he have played a clean lower bass line doubling this track? Dan "I hate what I've become, trying to escape who I am..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Well, it's obviously compressed, so I'm going to guess it's post-massage... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lug Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Hearing the full song, it's clear he's really playing lead guitar on the bass. It sounds as if Steve Howe is mostly playing rhythm on an acoustic through much of the song. It's the bass and the keyboards doing most of the heavy lifting. Another good example of guitar/bass role reversal in Yes. You can stop now -jeremyc STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Sounds like Chris Squire to me. I'm not a huge Yes fan but his tone and lines are perfect for that band. Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russkull Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 IIRC, Squire used a metal coin as a plectrum, as well, which makes those quick little runs even more remarkable. That's interesting. Just read somewhere else that one of my favorite g****rists, Brian May, plays with a coin as well (and if you've heard some of his runs...wow). I wonder how that got started, I would never think to do that. "Of all the world's bassists, I'm one of them!" - Lug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I keep one of those flattened-penny souvenirs handy. Works nicely. http://www.youmustbetrippin.com/disney-pressed-penny-dl0022.jpg Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele C. Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I am using one of these brass picks, picking over the seventeenth fret to have a round sound with a quick attack and still some treble in a Steve Swallow way. I think it is a great sound http://solidsound.us/ice_pix_images/new_guts_slices/3_picks_10.20.03.jpg I have experimented with a lot of picks, each with their own sound. My favorites have slightly rounded edges, are thick slightly below one mm made of a rigid material like tortex. I do not like softer materials, like nylon, don't like the plop, sharp edges make for a clanky sound, IMO. Brass makes for a very clean bell like dong and used carefully (i.e. almost parallel to the string, hitting the edge towards the neck first, with the forearm almost parallel to the strings) the zing of the plectrum attack can be removed. I have tried different kind of coins, but I think they sound awful. The round shape makes for a terrible attack, the rough edges make for too much zing, the thickness is excessive and adds a chock to the attack. -- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lug Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 IIRC, Squire used a metal coin as a plectrum, as well, which makes those quick little runs even more remarkable. That's interesting. Just read somewhere else that one of my favorite g****rists, Brian May, plays with a coin as well (and if you've heard some of his runs...wow). I wonder how that got started, I would never think to do that. Billy Gibbons was doing this befor these youngsters were born! You can stop now -jeremyc STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Butcept Squire and May are both older than Gibbons? Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfxj Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Nevermind. I forgot Billy & Dusty's combined beardness can bend space and time as illustrated by Maxwell's equations. Stupid of me. Sorry. Push the button Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Butcept Squire and May are both older than Gibbons? Don't spoil Lug's "get off my lawn" moment with facts. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I needed to bring an on-line order up by a dollar or two last year to qualify for a discount cut-off point, so threw in all those metal picks as an experiment. A friend and I tried them all out a few months ago. We hated them all, except for the copper one, which added a bell-like tone. That didn't surprise me, as I also ended up picking copper when I chose my Grover orchestral tambourine a couple of years back. Copper seems to produce the least abrasive attack,l while retaining full articulateness, and generates nice harmonics vs. some of the other metals. Eugenio Upright, 60th Ann P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico Bari, Dano Bari Select Strat/Tele, Am Pro Jazzmaster, LP 57 Gold, G5422DC-12, T486, T64, PM2, EXL1, XK4, Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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