iPad in live rig?

[kylethiessen]

Hi all,

 

I've searched pretty extensively (here and elsewhere) and I can't find much info on this. Do any of you use an iPad in your live rig as a softsynth (not for tracks or sequences)? My rig is a Roland FP-4 and XK-3c, either of which could function as the MIDI controller for the iPad. I have no good synth sounds available so I was thinking this would be a fun way to add them. Moog's Animoog app looks especially interesting...

 

Thanks,

Kyle

[allan_evett]

I use my iPad live a fair amount. SampleTank for iOS is a great 'all around' app. I also use the organ model in GarageBand; it's surprisingly good. Have Animoog, though it does some odd stuff; still trying to integrate it....

 

The Apple Camera Connector kit is what I use for USB connectivity; works well, though I have to keep an eye on the adapter connection at times...

[EscapeRocks]

The Apple Camera Connector kit is what I use for USB connectivity; works well, though I have to keep an eye on the adapter connection at times...

 

Allan, I have never looked atthe Apple Camera kit. Does this mean I could use the USB/Midi connection from my new MOX8 and also use the MOX as the sound driver with an iPad?

[Joe Muscara]

If the MOX is USB Class Compliant, then yes, you can plug USB/MIDI from it to the CCK. If not, then maybe.

[aellison62]

IIRC the MOX is not class compliant, but there is a rather comprehensive list of compliant keyboards w/IPad on this forum.

 

As to the OP, the Sunrizer synth app is a good VA all around synth and has several downloadable extra banks as well as user bank.

[aellison62]

I use my iPad live a fair amount. SampleTank for iOS is a great 'all around' app. I also use the organ model in GarageBand; it's surprisingly good. Have Animoog, though it does some odd stuff; still trying to integrate it....

 

The Apple Camera Connector kit is what I use for USB connectivity; works well, though I have to keep an eye on the adapter connection at times...

 

Allan, have you been able to assign the drawbars from the GarageBand organ to sliders on your controlling keyboard? I'm hoping these drawbars are assignable, cause I like the organ model also.

[Tusker]

Have Animoog, though it does some odd stuff; still trying to integrate it....

 

Please tell me more about the odd stuff. I haven't had any troubles yet.

 

The Apple Camera Connector kit is what I use for USB connectivity; works well, though I have to keep an eye on the adapter connection at times...

 

I've had similar positive experiences: S90ES USB out => Apple CCK => Ipad. There are other midi interfaces that will allow you continue charging your Ipad while you play it. Also in this community I have occasionally seen people have problems with CCK. This website keeps track of controllers / setups that seem to work:

 

http://iosmidi.com/devices/

[EscapeRocks]

Is there a benefit to using USB midi and the CCK versus the iRig midi adapter?

 

Here's my current, as of today, setup.

 

MOX8 midi out > Triton EX midi in

 

Triton midi out > to iRig/iPad

 

iPad audio out to MOX8 audio input.

 

SampleTank and Garage band seem to work just fine. I haven't played with my AniMoog app yet.

 

The iRig lets me charge the iPad with the iPad specific, more powerful charger.

 

 

[Stephen Fortner]

I'm currently working on a review of the Line 6 Mobile Keys (49-key model), which has direct connection to the iPad without the need for the camera kit. It's a nontrivial investment at $200, but there's a case to be made for dedicating a lightweight keyboard to the iPad and treating the whole thing as its own sound module.

 

Another cool option for doing the same is the Alesis iO dock, the advantage here being that you get audio and MIDI interfacing through the dock connector. It has 5-pin MIDI ports on the side, so plug in any MIDI keyboard and you're good to go. This removes worries about USB class compliance, but of course, synth or instrument apps you're running need to be CoreMIDI-compatible, and not all are.

 

Haven't tested the new iPad "3" yet, but plan to. Wondering how much more virtual instrument performance we might get with the quad-core graphics engine taking some of the pixel-pushing load off the CPU.

[Malpaugh]

 

As to the OP, the Sunrizer synth app is a good VA all around synth and has several downloadable extra banks as well as user bank.

 

Are those extra banks available through iTunes app store?

 

I'm using the Alesis iO dock which is very nice. It takes all the worries out of powering the iPad, plus connecting to the keyboard and audio is a breeze. Some will find the $200 price tag steep but it's really secure and at home inside the dock.

[Tusker]

Is there a benefit to using USB midi and the CCK versus the iRig midi adapter?

 

None ... Apart from the fact that you can use the CCK for other tasks. Cameras, card readers, USB mics, storage cards and some audio interfaces can work with it.

 

http://www.macworld.com/article/1161090/gbcompanion.html

 

You are still left without a power source for the IPad though. At some point stepping up to something more professional makes sense.

[aellison62]

Malpaugh, the extra banks on the Sunrizer synth are downloadable right from the app itself and you can then tweak any of the programs and save it.

 

Just open the banks bar at top middle of screen and browse the other available banks.

[allan_evett]

Is there a benefit to using USB midi and the CCK versus the iRig midi adapter?

 

None ... Apart from the fact that you can use the CCK for other tasks. Cameras, card readers, USB mics, storage cards and some audio interfaces can work with it.

 

http://www.macworld.com/article/1161090/gbcompanion.html

 

You are still left without a power source for the IPad though. At some point stepping up to something more professional makes sense.

 

 

Rather than go with iRig MIDI, or have to extract my iPad2 from its' Otterbox shell/case for use in an iO Dock, I've been searching for a USB based adapter that allows for charging. So far I've found THIS, which would appear to do the trick - as it's designed by USB Fever to replace the Apple CCK.

 

David: I'm surprised that the MOX8 was listed as not being compatible with the CCK, as Tusker mentioned that he was able to use the CCK with an S90ES - which is an older product than the MOX8. You could double check that, though if you're getting good results with iRig MIDI I'd stick with it - especially as it allows for charging via the mini USB port.

 

aellison62: I haven't looked into GB to see about drawbar assignments from my controller's sliders. It appears that GB's interface flexibility is rather limited, so I'm doubting that could be done. I've been setting the iPad where I can move the drawbars from the touchscreen.

 

Tusker: I've had issues with my copy of Animoog triggering intermittently - both from the iPad 'keyboard', and via USB. Just haven't gotten around to addressing the problem yet....

 

 

 

 

[kylethiessen]

Thanks everyone, glad to hear some are using them live. I'm admittedly just trying to rationalize buying an iPad and you've probably given me the final push...

[Tusker]

Thanks everyone, glad to hear some are using them live. I'm admittedly just trying to rationalize buying an iPad and you've probably given me the final push...

 

If you are getting the Ipad anyway, using it for music is a no-brainer.

 

If you are getting an Ipad for music, it's flexible enough to serve as a utility player: an Irealbook here, a midi controller there, some audio analysis, some drum loops, some synths etc.

 

But it's still best as icing on the cake after you are happy with your core live rig. IMO

 

Jerry

[Tusker]

Does this mean I could use the USB/Midi connection from my new MOX8 and also use the MOX as the sound driver with an iPad?

This interview with Yamaha's Athan Bilias suggests that the MOX is not class compliant:

 

"USB audio drivers: The keyboard isnt class-compliant, says Athan, because its both multi-channel audio and multi-port MIDI. (I believe the latter is the issue.) Youll need Yamaha drivers so, no Linux / iPad."

 

Link

[EscapeRocks]

I stopped at Frys and got the CCK. I'm going to play with it tonight.

 

One thing I don tlike about the iRig is that while it fits snugly with no movement in my iphone 4, it does not fit very wellin the iPad. too much play and if you even move lsightly, the connection is lost, like using a bad chargng cable.

 

I'll report my findings with CCK for both my Triton and MOX8 later when I have a chane to experiment.

 

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

I stopped at Frys and got the CCK. I'm going to play with it tonight.

 

One thing I don tlike about the iRig is that while it fits snugly with no movement in my iphone 4, it does not fit very wellin the iPad. too much play and if you even move lsightly, the connection is lost, like using a bad chargng cable.

 

That was one of the reasons I stopped using my iPad live with the CCK. The connection was just too fiddly, even after I built a little platform to help hold it in place. For that reason, if I ever wanted to go back to using it, I would definitely get the I/O Dock (or whatever other similar thing is out by that time).

 

Speaking of which, does anyone know yet if the I/O Dock is compatible with the new iPad?

[Ken Beaumont]

Alesis has stated on their forum they are working on an adapter for the iPad 3 and will have it available soon. The iPad2 adapter has enough tolerance for the new iPad to fit but the connector doesn't line up. Although you can force the connector to connect by forcing it, Alesis says they highly recommend you not do that. It puts too much strain on the connector and may break it.

 

Alesis Forum

[allan_evett]

I stopped at Frys and got the CCK. I'm going to play with it tonight.

 

One thing I don tlike about the iRig is that while it fits snugly with no movement in my iphone 4, it does not fit very wellin the iPad. too much play and if you even move lsightly, the connection is lost, like using a bad chargng cable.

 

I'll report my findings with CCK for both my Triton and MOX8 later when I have a chane to experiment.

 

 

 

I discovered that the CCK stays put best when there is no downward strain on the USB plug. IOW, a USB cable with even a slight bit of 'hang' will tend to work against the CCK staying plugged in to the iPad charging port. Typically I pull the cable around and under the case, then leave enough slack for it to loop up and stay even with the CCK. While the CKK does click into place, it's a rather flimsy connection - as the USB plug and initial 6" -12" of cable are much heavier than the CCK.

 

I'm planning to order the 5 in 1 connector that I linked to in yesterday's post. The manufacturer claims that the USB A slot camera connection is identical to that of the CCK, and that the mini USB connector will allow for concurrent charging. Would be very cool to have a 'CCK' that charges...

[EscapeRocks]

Okay, I need to retract my statement about the iRig. I didn't have it seated properly. It now makes a solid connection and I purposely bounced it around. Been playing with it all afternoon.

 

That being said, unfortunately the CCK does not work with the MOX nor does it work with my Triton Extreme.

 

I'm still keeping it as it's cool for transferring pics into iPhoto on the iPad, etc..

 

I am probably going to get the Alesis io dock, and be done with it

 

I can report that SampleTank and Garage band both work flawlessly from both the MOX and the Triton Extreme using the iRig interface. Also as stated before, I can charge the iPad with the iRig's mini usb cable and port designed for that.

[AnotherScott]

unfortunately the CCK does not work with the MOX nor does it work with my Triton Extreme

You can plug a standard USB MIDI interface into the CCK, and then you should be able to work with those boards.

[EscapeRocks]

RETRACTION of retraction:

 

The Apple Camera Connection Kit DOES work with the MOX8 over USB. Granted it does not transmit back to the MOX8 to use the MOX's ASIO drivers, but it does fully function with GarageBand, SampleTank, and even AniMoog, to play the sounds on the respective Apps on the iPad (iPad2 is what I'm using).

 

Apparently I did not of the CCK fully seated yesterday when testing.

 

It works with my Triton Ex as well.

 

One interesting thing, when you plug the usb into the MOX, the iPad message pops up that says "usb device is not supported." It works anyway. No such message on iPad when hooking up Triton.

 

I have also been playing with Yamaha's Setlist App. Very, very cool. I'm currently using it thru CCK/USB to the Triton to change Combis.

 

Anyway, wanted to correct and clarify my findings to say the CCK does in fact transmit and receive midi data to/from both my MOX8 and my Triton Extreme 61.

 

It does NOT transmit audio over usb to the MOX's ASIO driver.

 

I currently have the audio out of the iPad going into one of the audio in jacks of the MOX8 and mixing it in with the front panel controls.

 

 

[tucktronix]

RETRACTION of retraction:

 

The Apple Camera Connection Kit DOES work with the MOX8 over USB. Granted it does not transmit back to the MOX8 to use the MOX's ASIO drivers, but it does fully function with GarageBand, SampleTank, and even AniMoog, to play the sounds on the respective Apps on the iPad (iPad2 is what I'm using).

 

Apparently I did not of the CCK fully seated yesterday when testing.

 

It works with my Triton Ex as well.

 

One interesting thing, when you plug the usb into the MOX, the iPad message pops up that says "usb device is not supported." It works anyway. No such message on iPad when hooking up Triton.

 

I have also been playing with Yamaha's Setlist App. Very, very cool. I'm currently using it thru CCK/USB to the Triton to change Combis.

 

Anyway, wanted to correct and clarify my findings to say the CCK does in fact transmit and receive midi data to/from both my MOX8 and my Triton Extreme 61.

 

It does NOT transmit audio over usb to the MOX's ASIO driver.

 

I currently have the audio out of the iPad going into one of the audio in jacks of the MOX8 and mixing it in with the front panel controls.

 

 

Thanks for the info, David I've been considering an IPad 2 and have been wondering about the CCK's compatibility with my MOX8.

[hoggernick]

I have used my ipad2 + Alesis IODOck several times live. The app I usually use is Biskmark bs16i, and I have it loaded up with a cut-down (200MB) Scarbee Rhodes soundfont. It sounds great, but I have found that the MIDI latency is simply unacceptable; it's just too noticable for me to get into a groove with the thing. I haven't tried it with the CCK, but I'm hoping that the latency is better with it. Has anyone else here noticed the MIDI latency with IODock? I'm running the latest IODock firmware (1.07) and iOS 5.1.

[hoggernick]

Holy midi moly, I can't believe it was that simple. I've been sitting here struggling with MIDI latency on my IODock, when all along all I had to do was plug my ancient Yamaha UX16 MIDI interface into the CCK. I just tried it out, worked perfectly, and the MIDI lag is GONE. Thanks AnotherScott for posting that!

[EscapeRocks]

Holy midi moly, I can't believe it was that simple. I've been sitting here struggling with MIDI latency on my IODock, when all along all I had to do was plug my ancient Yamaha UX16 MIDI interface into the CCK. I just tried it out, worked perfectly, and the MIDI lag is GONE. Thanks AnotherScott for posting that!

Awesome!! I too am filing this info away for future reference re Alesis ioDock

 

[radpiano]

How do you power the iPad if using a dock connector for your usb connection ? I use a couple of Macbooks live and my iPhone, ( animoog and filtatron are cool apps ) and I use iRig as my dock-usb interface, however that does not charge the iPhone while using in performance. I always make I'm it's fully charged. Curious... how do you keep an iPad charged or do you just go into the gig with a fresh charge ? Is there a controller that will also send a charge while using the iPad ?

Thanks !

Ralph

[AnotherScott]

I use iRig as my dock-usb interface, however that does not charge the iPhone while using in performance.

That's one of the features of the iRig MIDI, that it has a pass-thru for charging...

[allan_evett]

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