Nord c2d questions

[FrederickS]

Hi again list

I though I will give a new try

Yes I am the guy that made the mistake to have a company name in my nick

I also jumped in the wrong way in this forum

 

Regarding the Nord C2d

If any one on this list has questions in relation to this instrument I will do my best to give you a good answer.

I have played it a lot being a beta tester.

I also use the VB3 1.4 which in my opinion is created by a genious Guido.

I own the C1 the C2 and a Hammond XB3

Leslies are

145

142

120

110

825

Motionsound pro3x and tm

 

If any one is interested post a question here and I will try and answer as unbiased as I can

I am NOT on Nords payroll - my only driver in relation to Nord is personal.

I want a lightweight organ with a full set of drawbars and a sound that is as close as humanly possible to the original.

 

I will not debate which is the better clone! Your ears has to decide that in combination with your other demands on an organ. Be it weight, stage precence, mmi, latency etc....

 

I hope this introduction is more in line with the intention of this formum.

Regards Frederick

 

 

 

[Tobias Åslund]

Welcome back!

 

I guess the big question on most people's mind is - how does the new rotary sim sound?

I am a hug Nord fan myself, but I've never been a fan of the overly compressed rotary sim. I think the newer 147 model in the C2 was a step in the right direction - it seem to have a more pronounced pulsating sound, like when the microphones are closer to the Leslie. So, mine and many others hope that this new sim and overdrive will sound closer to a Neo Ventilator. I am a big fan of the Ventilator.

[Joe Muscara]

(You could have just went into your old account and changed your nick/screen name.)

 

Has Nord finalized the software for the C2D yet? I'm wondering what Leslie models it includes, as well as what is adjustable or selectable in the Hammond model.

[Michael Wright]

No questions yet! Welcome back!

[dazzjazz]

Y'all be nice to Fred now - he's one of the good guys.

 

I've heard a little bit of this new clone too and I think it's gonna be a really good one . Yes I'm a Nord Endorsee but I was playing Nord for years before they started looking after me with gear...

 

Darren

[FrederickS]

My account was deleted on my request so that was not an option.

 

Information - I only have the VB3 1.4 as a non Nord comparison.

 

Up until now i have NEVER ever had the thought of not brining my 145 to church.

The c1/c2/c2d (or any other clone) in my beloved 145 gives me the sound i need to play a service and fee in touch with the sound.

 

Practising in headphones my preference has been

Nords organ sound and VB3 leslie sim.

 

Then one day i got a version to try that had some changes made based on what i heard from my Leslie 145 in my 60m3 livingroom with the Leslie about 1 meter from me.

 

I played using phones and then through the PA in my living room. And it sounded very nice. After a week of using it and using the 145 less and less I felt that I might be willing to try it in church 18/3. So i did.

And it did deliver enough to make me not regret taking the 145.

A leslie in a church will allways outperform a PA since the PA will not thrownthebsound around.

 

But the new 122 model did not get in my way - and that is a good grade.

And not having to load the Lelslie on mynown saved my back.

 

You also get a 122close model

This has the "mikes" closer and therefore modulates harder and more pronouced.

 

Which of two - matter of taste

 

You also get a setting for the balance between top and bottom rotor.

5 steps. I prefer a really bassy sound which i get using the option having the most bottom rotor.

 

As for finalilizing software. We had a Swedish premiere showing at Jam music store in Stockholm 19/3. So there is a first releease version out.

Pierre Swärdh played the C2d in a PA using the not so closely miked leslie sim. He played in his usual energentic gospel blues style and the comment from an American Gospel singer - I've been to church tonight - said a lot about Pierres playing and confirmed that he liked the total sound.

 

Afterwards we visited a studio nearby that had a -74 B3 and a Leslie 122 in mint condition. We brought the C2d and a Leslie 3300. After having tweaked the tonecontrols a bit we all agreed that the sound was almost identical

 

Hope this answers some of the questions

Reards Frederick

[FrederickS]

@mrTobbe

Totally agree with you on the overcompressed sound.

Less is more. Overmodulation in simulators does not give a sound good.

 

[FrederickS]

@mrTobbe

I would love to test the nord c2d with the vent as comparison. Main problem is that I do not have one. Where in Sweden you located?

[Craig MacDonald]

Fredrick, glad you're back!!!!

 

You have a wealth of information to share and I am very interested in your opinions! I hope your experience is a little better this time, and I hope those who were tossing out all the insults and treating you poorly have learned a lesson (although I doubt it).

 

I would also like to know about the Leslie sim as well as the new amp/overdrive and specifically how it compares to the ventilator? Obviously I would like to hear your overall impressions as well!

 

Thanks for coming back!

[ziquo]

Hi Fredrick

 

I'd like to know if they changed the C/V. It would be nice to have a subtler C3 setting, like in the old consoles.

 

I would also like to have to possibility to disable foldback on the 16 drawbar.

 

Thanks for your infos

[FrederickS]

Hi Craig

The C/V is the same

No setting to disable the 16" foldback in the lowest

Octave

[FrederickS]

I have also suggested subtler C/V when I play at low volumes the Chorus sound a litte choppy in my ears. When I lay it on it sounds fine.

And it's a day by day thing for me. Somedays I really love it some days I don't

That was the same with the C2

[Aidan]

Frederick, glad to see you return And sorry again.

[dazzjazz]

on a daily basis I find the C/V on my A100 different. Weird huh?

[FrederickS]

@Craig

My overall impression.

My dream of having an lightweight instrument that is 99% of the sound an playabilty of a Hammond B3 has come true.

 

The C2d is a compromise when it comes to the MMI since is does not have the original layout and size of switches

 

If having that is a killer requirement for someone then try Hamicord or KeyBDuo mkIII or the Hammond NewB3P

 

If you are not willing to make any compromises at all on sound, layout, feel of the keys or stage presence and you are willing to live with the size and weight - get a tonewheeler and enjoy the bliss of

 

having one. One day I will just for the fun of having one sitting in my liveing room

 

My requirements on an Hammond B3 Concept organ is as follows

Domain usage of the instrument - I manly focus on Gospel and Jimmy Smith type jazz

 

The right sound - The should be nothing in the sound that I lack or nothing that bugs me that should not be there

The pre Leslie simulator sound must be top notch - On gigs I will use a 145 in order to get the best sound

If a Simulator is provided it should sound a well miked Leslie would in a PA (from what I have heard the Vent fulfills that requirement)

The Leslie sim should not be obtrusive with to much modulation - Ideally it should sound as if you had a leslie 1 meter from you.

It must sound great out of the box - Since I know so much about Hammonds I would tweak myself to death on a XK system

Fast response when you play it and it should have the touch responsiveness of a B3. So you get the percussive effects out of the instrument

Light weight - I haul my instrument to and from

I must be roadworthy since i haul it around a lot

It must fit in my car - Citroen Berlingo

 

 

Now they key question - does the Nord C2d fulfill my requirements.

 

Yes it does.

I have used it in church using the Leslie sim in my Own PA.

It sounded good enough to not get in my way

The previous Leslie sims from Nord has in my opinion been ok for practicing and rehearsals but not for playing in church where I need to be in touch with the sound.

The C2d has changed my opinion to - The Leslie sim is very good. The last two weeks I have not used the Leslie 145 at home much - that is a good sign.

In the end a Leslie will always be the best sonic experience. But considering the weight and age of my 145 it is good to know that I do not have to haul it all the time

 

At the release party at Jam we did not use a Leslie just strait into a PA. In my ears it sounded just as a miked Leslie

 

The distortion model is greatly improved. The old one was a little to much fuss box for my taste - the new has the nice growl of a 122.

You can set it so you get early some distortion early on the Swell pedal travel but it does not break up totally on 888 888 888 and pedal to the metal.

Or you can set the distortion to John Lord levels.

 

 

 

Setup used at Church the other sunday

2* Celestion Kr2

1 X-Over set att 200hz to save the tops

Behringer ultrabas 90W handling the lows

Speakers 3 meters apart 1 meter behind me.

 

Final conclusion - For me this instrument is a dream come true.

Yes there are some very minor things that I would to see improved (which I can not disclose since I do not want to risk my Beta Tester status) but they are really minor stuff.

Tweaks towards the ever elusive perfection.

 

 

Regards Frederick

[FrederickS]

Hi Adian - thanks

I had a bad day too

[FrederickS]

My perception of C/V is that the lover the volume the more pronounced it becomes. Interesting that you have the same feeling on an A100..

That it is on a day to day basis.

[FrederickS]

And yes ppl I have to confess I am positively biased. The only thing I can assure is that if I did not think that the C2d is a good Hammond B3 concept instrument I would not have come back here. I would have been very quite about.

There is no financial gain for me. I earn my living as a Project mgn/requirements engineer and line manager.

I do this for the love of the Hammond sound and so that we that have to haul our gear should have sound but not the weight and sound.

 

/Frederick

[Tobias Åslund]

One more question about the Leslie sim. You say it's much improved from previous models - do you find it to be less compressed then the earlier ones? I really can't stand that aspect of the sound in the old sim - it really squashes the otherwise great Hammond model - which is why I'm always using the Ventilator.

 

Frederick - I live in Örebro - it would be really nice to compare the C2D with my Stage 2 and the C2D sim with the Ventilator. We should get together!

[FrederickS]

I think it compresses less.

I wonder if by compressing you mean the combfiltering effect that a leslie has.

If you turn the Leslie sim of you have the clear raw sound.

When you turn the sim on or plug in a leslie the chambers in the leslie applies a lot of combfiltering.

Could this be the compression you hear.

If that is what you refer to then that has improved a lot.

The new 122 model is quite close to how my 145 sounds in my living room.

A noticable vibrato (amp + frq modulatio) not to much nor to little.

It is just there.

If the ventilator is as good as it is being said it should be the same.

 

The Mojo sim sounds great on Guidos demo.

 

To sum it up. The old simulator always got in my way. It sounded a bit synthetic.

The new one (the more mellow 122) does not bug my ear. It just is.

 

Hope you can make some sense out of this

 

But I sent you my contact info so lets meet and then you can be the judge and I can get to hear the Ventilator.

[Tobias Åslund]

I could be - whatever it is that sim does, it shouldn't, IMO! The vent just what it should do - sound like a Leslie 122.

 

I saw the info - I'm very much looking forward to do this comparison.

[Joe Muscara]

What does the keyboard(s) feel like? I'm guessing the same as all Fatar-based waterfall actions, that is, a bit springy. But, I know sometimes Nord tweaks their actions.

[FrederickS]

The keybed on the production models that was used at the Jam musicstore event felt a miniscule bit firmer than the preproduktion model that I have been using.

And the c2 is definately firmer than the c1

 

Compared to a really good Hammond keybed all others come in short.

 

One of my bigger dissapointments was playing the newB3p. That keybed had imo the same feel as my ~95 xb3 which has a sloppy feel. But I like my XB3 for the instrument it is. And it is always set up in my livingroom so I can have the Nords packed and ready to go. In a Leslie 145 the XB3 sounds ok.

 

Andreas Hellkvist (Brilliant upcoming Swedish jazzorganist) was really happy with the whole action. He thought it responded really well. He normally playes an XK so I think his positive respons was a good indication of the action.

/Frederick

[Joe Muscara]

"Tilted panel and upper manual for better ergonomics"

 

How much are these tilted, especially the upper manual? Do you think someone who is used to real Hammonds could be thrown off by it?

[Jazz+]

Frederick

 

Are these new organ improvements going to be found on the Electro 4 also?

 

Thanks

[Joe Muscara]

Are these new organ improvements going to be found on the Electro 4 also?

Have you seen this from Nord?

 

http://issuu.com/soundtechnology/docs/nord_spring_news_2012/1?mode=a_p

[Jazz+]

I see it says a new tone wheel engine "derived" from the c2d , so that could mean it sounds the same or maybe not depending on processors, edits, compression, filters, etc.

[dazzjazz]

Those demos sounds very good. Seems like Nord is headed back near the top of the tree. Wish he hadn't spun the leslie while playing percussion though!!

Hopefully the action is not too stiff - to me the C1 action is actually pretty good.

 

Can't wait to play one.

 

Darren

[FrederickS]

It does not sound the same as the C2 I have both instruments, all three actually.

I would say that each of the new organs after the C1 inherits the best from its predecessor and takes it a step further.

 

So the C2d is not a C2 with just the drawbars it adds new sonic behaviors in important places.

 

Each new organ after the C1 has been given more attack components in the click part of the sound.

I initially found the C2d a bit more difficult to play singel it is more rythmically revealing. Just as it's master the B3. But the improved click components also means that you can do typical B3 rythmic tricks and get the proper responce.

 

/Frederick

[dazzjazz]

One of my bigger dissapointments was playing the newB3p. That keybed had imo the same feel as my ~95 xb3 which has a sloppy feel.

 

I agree - for the price they charge the action should be like butter.

 

Darren