Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

1st Gig With New Kronos Tonight


SpaceNorman

Recommended Posts

Well ... I just got finished with an early setup for my gig tonight - and am getting ready for a pre-gig snooze. It's been a busy week. My new Kronos 88 arrived and I've spent every moment I could spare getting up to speed on how to get around the instrument - and integrating it into my gig rig and setlist.

 

I gotta say - the more I use the touchscreen interface - the more I like the unit. Without question, it's the easiest "complex" interface I've ever worked with. It didn't take long at all to get comfortable creating combi patches using multiple voices and customized in terms of effects, controls and playing "ergnonomics".

 

I'm definitely excited about using it for the first time with the rest of the band (and at gig volumes) and am hoping that my choices with regards to patch selection sound as good as I think they will.

The SpaceNorman :freak:
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 34
  • Created
  • Last Reply

My first night out with the Kronos was excellent! The expanded sound palatte that the Kronos brings to my rig was instantly noticed by my bandmates. The Kronos' depth of choices in organ, EPs, strings, horns and "synth-y" voices totally outshines the RD700SX that it replaces in my rig.

 

I think I'm most impressed by the user interface. Compared to the Yamaha products I'm used to (tiny LCD screens, layer upon layer of menus and cryptic options, etc) - the Kronos' large touch screen and logical presentation of configuration options is downright intuitive - and invites you to tweak and play. I've done more customization of my Kronos patches in 4 days than I've done with my Yamaha gear in 4+ years!

 

I found the Kronos' combination of user interface and controls very easy to work with live. Being the fan of using prepared presets that I am (years of doing a wide variety of material with dance/cover bands where your expected to cover anything and everything that isn't a bass, a guitar or a trap kit at the drop of hat will do that to ya!) - I went through and created a "Setlist" with an entry for each and every song on last night's playlist. (I had ZERO paper on stage!). Some were single voices - but most were "combi" voices that included all the sounds I wanted available to me in the tune - either played as "layered" sounds or brought in and out using the slider controls. It worked very well.

 

Given the amount of storage space available for user defined voices (single voices and/or combis) the Kronos provides - I've concluded that my approach will be to create a "combi" for every song on my playlist - which will serve as my "workspace" for that tune and which I will fine tune over time.

 

My initial selections (which I used last night) worked pretty well in most cases. My typical patch setting is based around a piano sound - with either organs, strings and/or horns - layer on top of it. I need to go back through most of the patches I had created and figure out how to configure it so that the "base" piano voice ignores the volume pedal - so that the layered sounds can be brought in and out with the pedal. (the configuration construct I thought would do that didn't work as I expected - so I've got a little digging to do in that regard.)

 

I also want to spend a little time integrating my CP300 and Motif ES Rack unit into my Kronos "combi" voices so that I can use the Kronos to send program changes to the other engines in my rig - and end up with a rig that can be completely configured for a given song with the push of a single button. Based on what I've read - it's doable - I just need to put in the time to actually figure it out.

 

Being that the Kronos is a brand new toy for me - I reached for it every chance I could last night. I'll be honest - while there's no question that the Kronos keybed has a decent feel - I don't find the action/feel to be as comfortable that of the CP300. My impression is that the Kronos keybed is a little more "shallow" than the CP300. To be honest, my fingertips are a little sore today (something that never happens when playing my CP300!). I wouldn't be at all surprised to see myself controlling the Kronos sound engine from my CP300 keybed for a good portion of the night!

 

The only other thing I've got to address is my stand attached vocal microphone boom. The Kronos is "deeper" than my old RD700SX - and that added depth exceeded the clearance that the bracket that attaches to the upper tier support arm creates. (It's a simple metal extension that a buddy machined for me that a allows me to use the mic boom from my old Ultimate Apex 45 Stand). I'll have to see about getting another one that's 1.5" longer made.

 

All in all - I'm happy with my Kronos purchase so far. I realize that I've yet to even scratch the surface of it's capabities and am excited about the potential it brings to my rig!

The SpaceNorman :freak:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see myself controlling the Kronos sound engine from my CP300 keybed for a good portion of the night!

 

In that case the 61 key version sure would make for an easier load in, yes?

 

I'm partial to Yamaha's action too, though I haven't played the Kronos to compare.

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After you get use to the Kronos, you may find that integrating a rack with your rig unnecessary. The Kronos sounds are an improvement over the Motif rack and it is possible that the quality and the immediacy of the Kronos touch screen may make you lazy.

 

Its nice to have a huge palette of sounds at your disposal, but then you have to weigh the quality of the sounds and the time it will take to integrate with the Kronos, is it worth it?

 

Some yeas ago I had an Ensoniq TS10 that I used to play back my sequences while I played a Roland piano with a rack live. After my Motif ES8 arrived, it became apparent that the TS10 was a dinosaur in comparison. Now, your Motif rack is not as dated as my TS10 was in comparison, 10 years removed from the ES8. However, it was a lot easier to deal with just one KB and move on.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's impressive that you were able to get up to speed that quickly. That either says a lot about you or the user-friendliness of the touch screen and knobs. Did you use the CX3 organs?

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kronos 88, Korg CX-3, Motion Sound KBR-3D

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After you get use to the Kronos, you may find that integrating a rack with your rig unnecessary. The Kronos sounds are an improvement over the Motif rack

Alternatively, if there are a handful of favorite Motif sounds you really don't want to lose, you may get good results simply sampling those sounds into the Kronos.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the Kronos, would it be possible to send CX3 organ output into a Leslie cabinet and L/R stereo output (piano's, etc) into a regular stereo keyboard amplifier?

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kronos 88, Korg CX-3, Motion Sound KBR-3D

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... That either says a lot about you or the user-friendliness of the touch screen and knobs. Did you use the CX3 organs?

 

It's the user-friendliness of the touch screen and knobs. Creating a combi patch setup is pretty much point and click.

 

The interface presents you with a 16 "slot" template to start with - you simply add the voices you want to an available slot, tweak for ergonomics (i.e., define the range on the keyboard you want the voice to be associated with, set the register (octaves up / octaves down), add whatever effects you want - and save it. The touch screen interface provides "drop down" style boxes filled with all the parameter options available to select from.

 

Anybody who's comfortable working with computer software interfaces - will take to working with the Kronos interface like a duck to water.

 

I did a number of settings based on the CX3 engine. I don't have alot of experience working with drawbars - so that's a new world for me. But grabbing a "stock" CX3 organ sound - and manipulating the "drawbars" is pretty straight ahead. I found a few voices I liked in the "stock" organ settings (something clean with percussion, something a little on the "gritty" side, a couple of nice "comp" sounds ....)

 

 

The SpaceNorman :freak:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the Kronos, would it be possible to send CX3 organ output into a Leslie cabinet and L/R stereo output (piano's, etc) into a regular stereo keyboard amplifier?

 

I'm thinking this very doable - since in addition to a Left and Right "Main" Output, the Kronos has 4 additional balanced audio outputs that the manual says you can "freely route" outputs to.

The SpaceNorman :freak:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad to read that the gig went well for you, but I'm not surprised. The Kronos is indeed user friendly - almost intuitive to set up for live gigs. Like you, I feel like I've barely scratched the surface, yet I'm already getting great results on stage. The 'Setlist' is a great inclusion; many other thoughtful tools are a part of this machine, many I haven't even touched, yet.... Sheez, this one could keep me occupied for a few lifetimes, or so it feels.

 

Funny, when all the hype hit post NAMM, 2011 I was caught up in it; then I backed off - instead of pre-ordering - and decided to wait to check the Kronos out. When I finally played it in September, 2011 I was struck by how much it reminded me of my old Triton Ext. 76 - super easy to navigate, with a huge variety of synth tones. Having much improved pianos, an organ model, string model, FM, and VA was a huge plus; I was able to explore those more in-depth my second time playing the instrument. While I still have many favorite pianos, organs, VA sounds, etc. in other instruments/software (my gold standard for piano is still the Yamaha CP5, though I don't own one, yet....), I've yet to find a keyboard where I can have all of that, and more, in one place. And, being able to seamlessly edit, combine and shape the results into Combinations is great.

 

A big part of the selling point was how easily a favorite sound started to come together on my second 'session' with the Kronos: Back in the late 80's/early 90's a favorite combination was a sound that took three modules and three effect units in my rack to create; it was a mix of tones/FX from a TX802, MKS-80, EMU Proteus, Lexicon LXP 1 /LXP 5, and a Korg A2. It was a 'clavitar' type of sound with a 'pad-ish' element; at higher velocity it morphed into a punchy, almost brassy comping tone. I had heard similar sounds used by Richard Souther (late 80's recording), and CJ Vanston (live, w/Jerry Goodman). While I have created rack-less versions of the sound since then - on my XV-5080 - I thought that the Kronos might be up to the task, especially after messing with the Program "Piano Wire SW1". After putting that Program into a Combination, then adding in a few different Programs, tweaking effects, etc. I'd heard enough. Once I had the Kronos at home, and was able to spend some quality time getting familiar with it, I rebuilt and finalized the 'clavitar' Combination.

Like you, SpaceNorman, I had a great time using my Kronos 88 last night on the gig. It's a blast being able to - in one instrument - move from a kick-ass grand piano Program to a killer Rhodes / late 70's synth string Combi, then onto a very respectable B3 Program, and after that my own Combi "Clavitar 2011". Quite the 'Swiss Army Knife' this keyboard is....

 

Yes the action's heavy, and a tad sluggish. But no tedonosis flare-ups, like I had with the older S90 heavy balanced action, or quick 'bottoming out' RD-700 NX action. The Kronos action is graded, and has ample 'throw'; helps a lot. The next day it just feels like I had a good workout the night prior. It definitely helps to have practiced beforehand on the Kronos keybed (or at the very least 'warmed-up' on it). RH3 will kick my butt if I go in playing it 'cold'. I can deal with it; but, if customizing keybeds to an instrument was possible I would select the new, lighter CP5 balanced action for my K88.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the Kronos, would it be possible to send CX3 organ output into a Leslie cabinet and L/R stereo output (piano's, etc) into a regular stereo keyboard amplifier?

 

I'm thinking this very doable - since in addition to a Left and Right "Main" Output, the Kronos has 4 additional balanced audio outputs that the manual says you can "freely route" outputs to.

 

This is certainly doable. In fact, quite simple to do. I route organ to one of the aux outs, turning off the internal sim and using a vent instead.

Steve Force,

Durham, North Carolina

--------

My Professional Websites

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After you get use to the Kronos, you may find that integrating a rack with your rig unnecessary. The Kronos sounds are an improvement over the Motif rack and .....Mike T.

 

This is very subjective. I keep going back to my rack, and there are a handful of sounds that I use a lot that I would be taking a downgrade with the Kronos. The Motif sweet flute is a prime example: I play a bit of Jethro Tull in a couple of the bands Im with, and Id be disappointed in what Ive heard from the Kronos flute so far.

My JD990 has some really great pads that Ive put together, and while I had weaned myself off them when I shrunk my rack down for a while, and the replacements I had were very good, when I brought the JD back, and used them on new songs, I found they were inspiring AGAIN.

My fear is Id buy a Kronos and instead of lightening my load, it would only augment it. LOL

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah Tony, I hear ya! There's no such thing as "too many" good sounds. It is pretty difficult to get ONE KB to handle all the sounds you would like to have at your disposal. I don't know that any one KB would have all the best sounds, otherwise the other companies would be out of business.

 

I like the Sweet Flute, as well as some of the other variations of flutes on the Motif series. There are other sounds that could stand improvement, but it is what it is.

 

I am looking at the implemation of the Kronos from an "age" stand point. I don't know how old Norman is compared to me or if he gets any help moving his equipment. But in my case, the less weight and trips loading in-out for an old guy started to take precidence over the absolute best sounds available.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In that case the 61 key version sure would make for an easier load in, yes?

 

I mulled over going with the 61 key version option for a long time before deciding to go with the Kronos 88. The weight savings (and $$ savings) of the 61 key version versus the 88 key version were certainly attractive.

 

Ultimately it was my acknowledging that I'm most comfortable playing on weighted action keyboards - combined with a concern that I might regret having what I expected to be the most versatile sound engine in my rig tied to a 61 key "synth" action keyboard that I've never been really comfortable playing. After taking the $$$ involved into consideration - I just couldn't convince myself to take a risk by going the 61 key route - and then having buyers' remorse for not going with an full sized, weighted keybed.

The SpaceNorman :freak:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In that case the 61 key version sure would make for an easier load in, yes?

 

I mulled over going with the 61 key version option for a long time before deciding to go with the Kronos 88. The weight savings (and $$ savings) of the 61 key version versus the 88 key version were certainly attractive.

 

Ultimately it was my acknowledging that I'm most comfortable playing on weighted action keyboards - combined with a concern that I might regret having what I expected to be the most versatile sound engine in my rig tied to a 61 key "synth" action keyboard that I've never been really comfortable playing. After taking the $$$ involved into consideration - I just couldn't convince myself to take a risk by going the 61 key route - and then having buyers' remorse for not going with an full sized, weighted keybed.

 

I've had THIS issue with EVERY rompler I've ever owned that wasn't an 88. It's one of the primary reasons that my Motif ES6 stayed home so often, and if it did get gigged, it wound up being driven from the CP33 (or other weighted 88).

 

On one hand, I like the reduced weight factor of the 61, but one of the big downsides, is really needing the weighted 88 to make ANY of the pianos (AP or EP) truly usable for me.

 

On the other, other hand. The big weighted 88s just suck to move around, and suck even more in a road case. The stage piano for me was a better alternative, being smaller footprint and lighter overall, and usually has a better keybed.

 

Some days, you just can't win and its always a compromise no matter how good the gear is.

Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with getting an 88 weighted action KB instead of a 61. The only reason I would buy a 61 notes KB is if it was a second KB, not my main ax. I have to have a weighted action KB for piano and Rhodes, I've gotten use to playing organ parts on a weighted KB over time. Playing machine gun trills is out of the question, but there are things that can be compromised. A weighted action is not one of them.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep going back and forth between the Kronos 88 and 61. In fact, I've been solidly stuck on this one, to the point of being unable to move forward with any purchase.

 

Mr. SpaceNorman, please keep us informed as to your progress with regard to integrating the ES-rack into the Kronos combis. If this is easy to do, it just may tip my decision toward using the K88 as a master controller, as opposed to using either my NS88 or PC3X with a K61.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After you get use to the Kronos, you may find that integrating a rack with your rig unnecessary. The Kronos sounds are an improvement over the Motif rack and it is possible that the quality and the immediacy of the Kronos touch screen may make you lazy.

 

I tend to approach sounds by setting up one sound (be that a single sound or a layered sound) on one keyboard that gets played with my left hand and another sound on the other board that gets played with my right. I love to layer sounds on a single board to come up with something fat.

 

Conversely, I avoid using keyboard splits as much as I possible can. On the occasions that I have used splits - it's always a struggle to find that perfect split point such left hand parts stay left of the split and right hand parts stay to the right of the split. Of course, a last minute key change renders the split setup unuseable. The "two hands/two boards" approach is always my preference.

 

That said - the Motif will most likely stay and serve as an extended sound palate driven by my CP300. The CP300 / Motif ES Rack combination can be pretty powerful - and in a rig with the Kronos - will allow me to consistently field rich voices on both boards!

 

Unless I eliminate my rack totally - eliminating the Motif does little more than cut 13 lbs out of my schlepp (since it's already integrated into my keyboard rack - the rig "piece count" and footprint remains unchanged.)

The SpaceNorman :freak:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there are a handful of sounds that I use a lot that I would be taking a downgrade with the Kronos. The Motif sweet flute is a prime example: I play a bit of Jethro Tull in a couple of the bands Im with, and Id be disappointed in what Ive heard from the Kronos flute so far.

Ditto to every detail! That's a case where I would sample the Motif's flute into the Kronos if I didn't want to carry the extra gear. You might be able to get what you need with just two velocity layers.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mulled over going with the 61 key version option for a long time before deciding to go with the Kronos 88. The weight savings (and $$ savings) of the 61 key version versus the 88 key version were certainly attractive. - I just couldn't convince myself to take a risk by going the 61 key route - and then having buyers' remorse for not going with an full sized, weighted keybed.

I wouldn't buy Kronos 88 unless you're tied to pairing it with some other unweighted board.

 

A Kronos 88 typically costs about $3800 and weighs about 51 lbs.

 

A Kronos 61 paired with, for example, a Casio PX3 (or a CDP-something) costs less, weighs about the same in total, but is easier to move since no piece is over 28 lbs, plus gives you the benefit of having weighted and unweighted actions at your disposal, plus backup at a gig in case something goes wrong, plus something that comes on and plays almost immediately after a power glitch instead of having to wait for the Kronos to reboot, plus 149 keys at your disposal (i.e. you can essentially do "splits" without risking running out of key real estate), plus the ability to do a quick rehearsal or on-and-off mini-gig situation with a lightweight board.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I avoid using keyboard splits as much as I possible can. On the occasions that I have used splits - it's always a struggle to find that perfect split point such left hand parts stay left of the split and right hand parts stay to the right of the split. Of course, a last minute key change renders the split setup unuseable. The "two hands/two boards" approach is always my preference.

 

That said - the Motif will most likely stay and serve as an extended sound palate driven by my CP300.

You also may be able to sample your favorite Motif sounds into the Kronos and would still be able to set it up so that they are triggered by the CP300; and they can be sent out their own assignable out on the Kronos so that they are still sent independently to the mixer, just as if they were generated by the rack module, if that's the way you want it.

 

Unless I eliminate my rack totally

What else is in the rack?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im in the same boat: I NEED an 88 weighted. I just dont get along with non-weighted or semi-weighted keyboards (except for clonewheels). Im loathe to get back into a 50+ lb keyboard after my Stage 2, but I really wouldnt have a choice. The difference in my interaction with the Kronos 88 and 61 were night and day.

 

Moonthis is a no brainer for you: do you want to use midi with your Kronos? No, I know you dont. Get the 88 and be done with it man!!!!!

 

I wish the Kronos had a bigger screen, that might tip the scale into BUY territory. Hearing Normans experience with easy combis makes me want to scope out the Kronos some more. Id be curious to hear how effective the sampled Motif flute would be in the Kronos.

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I finally got to play a weighted Kronos, and liked it much better than I thought I would. After reading so many negative comments, I was expecting a bad experience. I liked it better than the SV1 action, felt like a better finger-to-sound connection. It's a heavy action, but not unpleasant. I think the heaviness would just take some getting used to. Bottoms out nicely. Still not on par with the CP5 or RD700NX.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sweet Flute is a nice program on the Motifs, one of my favorites.

 

Here's a Kronos program I made using the EXs3 library, which has a pretty extensive flute section. Due to the memory limits of 2GB with the original Kronos OS, only about half of the EXs3 library is loaded by default. Most of the brass/winds you find in the Kronos banks come from the 320MB base "ROM", not the 800+MB EXs3 Brass/Wind library.

 

Kronos Tull Flute

 

Multisamples below:

 

French and German are two complete multisamples of sustain tone, different timbres, no vibrato. Flute-2 Vibrato is a vibrato version of the GermanTone.

0003 Flute 2-FrenchTone

0004 Flute 2-GermanTone

0005 Flute 2-Vibrato

 

Trills/Gliss

0006 Flute 2-Trill-Semi

0007 Flute 2-Trill-Whole

0008 Flute 2-GlissUp

 

These are very short attack samples which change the characteristics of the attack. Then blend in nicely with the sustain potion and can be brought in at only higher velocities if you'd like.

0009 Flute 2-Attack "D"

0010 Flute 2-Attack "K"

0011 Flute 2-Attack "P"

0012 Flute 2-Attack "T"

0013 Flute 2-Attack-Legato

 

JazzFlute effects

0014 JazzFlute-Flutter

0015 JazzFlute-Voice 8'

0016 JazzFlute-Voice 16'

0017 JazzFlute-Attack-Hard

0018 JazzFlute-Atk-Voice 8'

0019 JazzFlute-Atk-Voice 16'

 

In the program I used Attack-P with Flute-2 Vibrato. At moderately high velocities, JazzFlute-Attack-Hard comes in. At the highest velocities, a flutter is triggered. This is what you hear in the first two examples of the audio clip.

 

The value slider brings in the voice (or humming). With SW2 OFF, a voice 8' is heard in the third example. When SW2 is ON, a voice 16' is heard (last example in the audio clip). The blend of the voice with the flute tone is controlled by the value slider.

 

Busch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...