Registering your music and lyrics for copyright purposes ...

[execlass2]

Dear forumites,

 

Having gathered and recorded a fair amount of original music and original lyrics ( no use of other musicians, lyricists, samples from other songs or whatever, everything is 100% original work), I want to proceed to publish my music. Since for the time being I want to have full control of everything that regards my creations (that is, I don't seek to get signed to any record label, etc), and I have a day job that pays my bills, and therefore, i don't need any money advanced to produce my music, I am however concerned with the legal establishment of the authorship of my works - worldwide. I assume this involves some kind of registration of each work. Question is - with whom ? I have read so many different things. Seems to be common advice to to the following two things: Registry with the Library of the Congress, and mail the recordings on a closed envelope to yourself, so that the posting stamp date establishes when those records were made.

 

Is this all it takes to register the authorship of a music work and its lyrics ? Really ? I was also advised to register with BMI or other PRO offices, but at the moment I want to keep all my options and not give anyone (yet) the right to collect royalties for me, until is entirely clear how they do it, what percentages they take, from where, and when, and from what revenue streams.

 

Are my authorship rights to a music work (and its lyrics) perfectly established for the whole world if they are registered with the Library of the Congress - regardless of whom I empower later for claim copyright royalties? Are there other alternatives ?

 

What is your opinion of services like Tunecore, Revebnation, Ditto (or others) in terms of collecting royalties for you ? Are they an effective alternative to traditional PRO's who seem to be controlled by the major record labels ? Can they claim royalties on the author's behalf in anywhere in the world or just in the North America / UK axis ? I live in Portugal, so I am very unsure about these issues. All the advise that you can give will be more than welcome.

 

Ricardo

[David Loving]

The problem is copyright enforcement, and royalties. That is why BMI, et al are a good idea.

[Cygnus64]

and mail the recordings on a closed envelope to yourself, so that the posting stamp date establishes when those records were made.

 

Old wive's tale. Not valid.

 

What is your opinion of services like Tunecore, Revebnation, Ditto (or others) in terms of collecting royalties for you ?

They don't collect royalties.

 

 

[Cygnus64]

Royalties 101

[Joe Muscara]

I was all ready to give you some answers until you said you were in Portugal. Still, maybe this will help.

 

If you were in the U.S., I'd say register your copyright with the LOC as a collection. Don't bother with the "mail it to yourself" thing if you do that. Again in the U.S., once you produce a work, you own it (assuming you didn't do it as work-for-hire, meaning, someone else paid you to create it for them). Registering the work with the Copyright Office just gives you a good way to prove that it's yours.

 

Why am I telling you about the U.S. even though you are not there? Generally, most countries try to match up their copyright laws via international treaties, so everyone everywhere is working under similar rules. Portugal may be part of that treaty, it's worth checking out.

 

Technically, PROs and those sorts of things don't collect any percentages, I don't think. I'm sitting here thinking, "I've never thought about it. I've never seen anyone mention it." I think they make their money by having the money in their account for time, and perhaps the amounts that don't get claimed.

 

You'll want to join a PRO such as ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC (SESAC is selective, you can't just join, so probably not that one at this stage), and you'll want to join SoundExchange for online royalty collection.

 

Here's a link about how royalties get collected.

 

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties7.htm

 

Here is another perspective on joining PROs (read all three parts). WARNING: I've never read anything from this guy that didn't sound pissed off. I don't agree with all of what he writes here, but I thought it would help to give you some perspective.

 

http://www.mosesavalon.com/mosesblog/2559/music-business/why-you-should-wait-to-join-ascap-bmi-sesac/

 

Oops - again, I mentioned ASCAP/BMI/SESAC/SoundExchange, and those might be for U.S. only. You'll have to see if they'll service you in Portugal or if there are organizations there for you to use.

 

Lastly, regarding Tunecore, Reverbnation, etc., those sites/services don't really deal with royalties. They deal with selling units. If you are independent and are selling songs or albums, they sell those for you or put them where they can be bought and give you the money after they take their cut.

 

Look at it this way. Royalties are money you make for public performances of your song, whether that performance was you or someone else. The services such as Tunecore give you money for sales of your songs/albums that people buy. If someone records your song for their album, that's somewhere in between. You can negotiate a deal or they can pay you the standard amount if that's what you both agree to. I can't recall the details of the standard amount.

 

HTH!

[execlass2]

 

Technically, PROs and those sorts of things don't collect any percentages, I don't think. I'm sitting here thinking, "I've never thought about it. I've never seen anyone mention it." I think they make their money by having the money in their account for time, and perhaps the amounts that don't get claimed.

 

HTH!

 

From http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties7.htm : "The PROs deduct money for their operating expenses and the rest goes to the songwriters and publishers." So I believe they do take a percentage. I've read a lot of arguments about how outrageous is the amount they deduct - to the point of there's nothing left to the author. Hence my hesitation.

[Cygnus64]

From http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties7.htm : "The PROs deduct money for their operating expenses and the rest goes to the songwriters and publishers." So I believe they do take a percentage. I've read a lot of arguments about how outrageous is the amount they deduct - to the point of there's nothing left to the author. Hence my hesitation.

I would say that it's more outrageous how they divide it up. We've had a few discussions on it here, some heated.

 

As far as publishing et al, I think it would be wise to figure out what you are trying to accomplish before diving in to this. For instance:

 

Sheet music sales

CD sales

Digital downloads

airplay

Sync (TV, film)

 

Someone around here probably has experience with each.

[execlass2]

Let's just say that, at 40, and having an established business in other area of trade, I'm not set in my ways to become a rock superstar.

 

My goal is to publish my music and then:

 

a) Sell it through digital distribution channels (iTunes, Amazon, Nokia, etc);

b) Collect royalties for public performance (radio airplay, etc)

c) License that music for TV, Commercials, Cinema, etc and collect royalties;

d) Eventually license those songs for other artists to record.

 

I any case, I want to retain as much control of my music as possible, and that's why I wish to keep the role as author, publisher, record label and my own agent. I also want to keep the rights to perform my own music live, regardless of who may in the future license that music for recording. I don't need to fall into the hands of a record label in order to have money in advance for whatever reason, which would then be deducted from my future royalties.

[kanker.]

You're not going to collect royalties on your own. Period.

[Cygnus64]

You're not going to collect royalties on your own. Period.

Yup.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

The laws are harmonized internationally to a very large extent, for most countries (including US and Portugal). THere is no overarching international agreement; instead it's all done using lots of bilateral agreements (by pairs of countries). This site has an extensive list showing countries that have signed agreements with the US: http://www.copyright.gov

 

First, you don't *have* to do anything; as soon as you record your original works in any medium, you have copyright ownership. However, you also benefit from some kind of proof of your authorship.

 

You can apply for US copyright *registration* by sending a CD with a combined Performing Arts and Soundrecording (PA and SR) form, as long as the authorship for everything on the CD is the same. There's a small registration fee; $30 or $40. In US courts, your copyright registration is assumed to be valid for any court proceedings. If two parties register the same material, the earlier one is generally assumed to have priority, the burden for proving otherwise resting on the later filer.

 

In US courts, most evidence isn't accepted on face value; it has to be admitted into evidence along with testimony. However, some evidence is admitted directly without testimony and assumed to be correct unless contradicted. A copyright is this kind, as is a real estate title.

 

I would expect that a US copyright filing would offer some proof of ownership in other countries, but might not be admitted directly as it is in the US.

 

As mentioned above, mailing to yourself isn't proof. For one thing, you can mail yourself unsealed envelopes and put anything you want in them. I asked my father, a patent laywer, about this and his reply was something like this: How would you introduce this evidence? Who would testify to it? Are you going to depose a postmaster? If you testify to it yourself, it's no better than your word for it in the fist place, legally speaking.

[execlass2]

I have asked the portuguese entities that deal with these things (SPA - Sociedade Portuguesa de Autores, IGAC, AFP, among others) and their answers are frightteningly vague. I can register my works directly with a government agency, but that registration is a) optional (huh?) and b) it only grants the presumption of claiming copyright over a certain work. There is no registration number, and it offers only marginal proof in court (namely for the establishment of a timeline). This is utterly frustrating. I think I'll go with registering the work at the Library of the Congress.

 

Now correct me if I'm wrong: Shouldn't there be a unique identification number given to each song, that will make it traceable anywhere in the world ? When does that number comes to existence and how ? Who assigns that number / code ?

 

As far as collecting royalties, I agree - the author doesn't get to collect any royalties on his own. Question is, who is more qualified to do so ? It was said before that Tunecore and Ditto and Reverbnation aren't able to collect royalties on the author's behalf. I disagree. From the Tunecore website (Terms of Service Agreement):

 

" To license, and cause others to license, and to collect all income related to any exploitation of the Songs. Without limitation, Company shall have the right to license: (A) broadcast and digital public performances; (B) the manufacture, reproduction, distribution and sale of records embodying one or more Songs, both physically and electronically; © the synchronization of the Songs in connection with, but not limited to, motion pictures, television programs, advertisements and video games; and (D) the use of the Songs in connection with merchandising activities. "

 

Now, isn't this the collection of royalties, or am I making a confusion here ?

 

R.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

Not sure what you don't understand about that. Registering with your government gives you pretty much the same thing as registering with the US Copyright Office.

 

Registering the copyright, you get a certificate, pretty much the same as you probably get from the Portugese government. All it does is make it clear that at such and such a date, you claimed copyrights for the work, and if anyone wants to dispute that, the burden of proof is on them.

 

As far as identification codes, I don't know, but the performing rights organizations would handle that end of things. Google "performaing rights organizations" and you'll see a number of contenders, including ASCAP and BMI. Those are the places that will help you collect any royalties you're due. (But don't get your hopes up; unless your work becomes pretty popular, you'll be so far under the radar that it won't be actively policed. It's a complex issue that's been discussed to death here, but most royalties are payed based on your percentage of the market in the fees paid by bars, etc., rather than for individual performances.)

 

Royalty earnings come in (at least) three categories.

 

1) Your portion of gross licencing fees, based on your popularity. This is you getting your portion of the fees venues pay to allow bands to play cover music, or juke boxes. Sorry, but Lady Gaga and the Rolling Stones get most of this money. The Performing Rights Orgs collect these fees. This also covers broadcasting, I believe.

 

2) "mechanical license fees". This may be only in the US, but in the US, you can cover or include anyone's copyrighted music in your compilation if you pay a fee that's calculated from the song length and number of copies. Most licence fees are NOT paid this way, because the mechanical rate is significantly higher than anyone cutting a big CD run wants to pay. I'm not sure how these are administered; most buyers use Harry Fox agency (http://harryfox.com). Not sure how sellers hook up. (Note: the copyright owner can disallow a specific mechanical license due to artistic reasons. Thus Tomita was required to kill the Holst's Planets album.)

 

3) Individual deals: some artist wants to cover your song. They could just get a mechanical without asking you and pay, but they'll get a far better deal if they contact you and make a deal.

 

 

If you just want to sell your recordings, use a site like CDBaby or others. That's not royalty collection for others covering your work or broadcasting it, you're just getting your profit from direct sales.

 

That's my understanding. I'm not an expert or experienced in the business. Hopefully any pros here with real experience will correct any mistakes I've made. But I'm pretty sure this is the deal.

[JeffLearman]

Sending a copy to the US Library of Congress is not to establish copyrights. It's to meet a US law that requires that all publications in the US file a copy of record with the LOC. That requirement is a bit outdated, and there's no ruling over whether putting something on the web is considered "publishing in the US." Goodness knows they don't want a copy of everything every posted on the web!

 

It's also not very clear what failure to file with LOC would cause, other than a relatively small fine (from the standpoint of a business, that is) that might come up if there was any court activity due to US publication of the work.

 

In the US, if you register a copyright, in addition to getting the certificate that says you're assumed to be the author & copyright owner, you also get another benefit. If you do sue someone and you registered before they infringed, you can be awareded punative damages and attorneys fees. If you didn't register, you only get statutory damages.

 

Also, in the US, if you haven't registered and someone infringes, you have to register before you can file suit.

[ProfD]

As mentioned above, register your collection of lyrics and music with the Library of Congress from whom you will receive proof of copyright.

 

Establish a publishing company. Once you start selling and/or licensing music, join a PRO (ASCAP or BMI). They are in the business of collecting and paying out royalties.

 

Reading through old threads, you will realize royalty payments aren't "automatic" even with PRO membership and airplay.

 

The music business has many layers and getting paid takes a lot of work. Good luck.

[JeffLearman]

Wow, cool -- it's changed since I last looked; you can now submit copyright registration electronically.

 

http://www.copyright.gov/eco/

 

[Synthoid]

The music business has many layers

 

Layers or Lawyers?

 

[Cygnus64]

 

 

Reading through old threads, you will realize royalty payments aren't "automatic" even with PRO membership and airplay.

 

The music business has many layers and getting paid takes a lot of work. Good luck.

 

They used to have (maybe still do?) "Music C-DR's". On the box, it said "a portion of each sale will be given to the music industry". I've never met one human who has received a cent. Keep in mind, I get to meet a lot of bigboys, even record label heads. Nada. I'm guessing this mystery money was direct deposited into the personal accounts of Clive Davis and two friends.

 

 

Establish a publishing company. Once you start selling and/or licensing music, join a PRO (ASCAP or BMI). They are in the business of collecting and paying out royalties.

 

The best bet is to do it directly: I think sites like Magnatune do it. The amounts are amazingly low: I've known people who have had work played on major shows like "Dateline" and they got like 40 bucks.

 

I've licensed a few tracks directly. With one track, someone heard it in a "post your music" thread like we have here. They pm'ed me personally and I said $250 sounded about right (it was for an internet ad). I drew up a very simple contract, they sent me $250, we all lived happily ever after.

 

[Joe Muscara]

Wow, cool -- it's changed since I last looked; you can now submit copyright registration electronically.

 

http://www.copyright.gov/eco/

This has been true for a few years. I did mine that way, and the certificate was returned to me in a few weeks!

 

It's also a little less money to submit electronically.

[Bobadohshe]

The best bet is to do it directly: I think sites like Magnatune do it. The amounts are amazingly low: I've known people who have had work played on major shows like "Dateline" and they got like 40 bucks.

 

I've licensed a few tracks directly. With one track, someone heard it in a "post your music" thread like we have here. They pm'ed me personally and I said $250 sounded about right (it was for an internet ad). I drew up a very simple contract, they sent me $250, we all lived happily ever after.

 

Do what directly? License your own stuff? You'd still want to register it with your PRO. Regardless of license fees you're paid up front, you are entitled to royalties when it's on the air (unless you sign away both your writing and publishing shares. But that's crazy).

[Cygnus64]

The best bet is to do it directly: I think sites like Magnatune do it. The amounts are amazingly low: I've known people who have had work played on major shows like "Dateline" and they got like 40 bucks.

 

I've licensed a few tracks directly. With one track, someone heard it in a "post your music" thread like we have here. They pm'ed me personally and I said $250 sounded about right (it was for an internet ad). I drew up a very simple contract, they sent me $250, we all lived happily ever after.

 

Do what directly? License your own stuff? You'd still want to register it with your PRO. Regardless of license fees you're paid up front, you are entitled to royalties when it's on the air (unless you sign away both your writing and publishing shares. But that's crazy).

 

Do both. In the case I sited, I'm not going to make a cent from the PRO's. Nor was there any middleman who not only takes a cut but pushes the price low. As I said, I drew up a simple contract and they followed it to the letter.

 

One can register with a PRO and still cut their own deals directly. My point was that a lil hustle goes a lot further than waiting by the mailbox for that 12 cent check. Contacting people directly and making deals that way is the best way for almost everything in the music biz, from scoring gigs to everything else.

[Bobadohshe]

Do both. In the case I sited, I'm not going to make a cent from the PRO's. Nor was there any middleman who not only takes a cut but pushes the price low. As I said, I drew up a simple contract and they followed it to the letter.

 

One can register with a PRO and still cut their own deals directly. My point was that a lil hustle goes a lot further than waiting by the mailbox for that 12 cent check. Contacting people directly and making deals that way is the best way for almost everything in the music biz, from scoring gigs to everything else.

 

Quite right. Just clarifying what you meant.

[execlass2]

This far, from the input I've been collecting, here and in other places, it seems to me that the best course of action for me would be:

 

a) Register my works with the Library of the Congress;

b) Register the name of my project and its logo also with the Library of the congress;

b) Become a member of a PRO organization such as BMI or ASCAP or.... (possibly the one that has an affiliation agreement with the equivalent organization on Portugal)

c) Use a distribution service such as Tunecore or other similar service (CD Baby etc)

d) Use a service like TAXI to get my work exposed to TV, Film, Advertising producers

e) Affiliate with HarryFox and / or SoundExchange for the collection of royalties that aren't covered by the PRO's.

f) Keep my hands free to cut any personal deals I may deem fit and fair directly with final clients.

 

As for choosing between BMI and ASCAP, does anyone have an advice here? What works best for you and why ?

 

Thanks

 

R.

[Cygnus64]

d) Use a service like TAXI to get my work exposed to TV, Film, Advertising producers

This one has had several threads here. Some have had success, some otherwise. Do some reading and make your own conclusions.

 

e) Affiliate with HarryFox

The primary purpose of Harry Fox is to license other people's music i.e. putting a Styx cover on your album.

As for choosing between BMI and ASCAP,

read this

BMI has an advantage with concert music (classical, broadway, etc).

 

 

[execlass2]

I have seen mentioned that it's a good idea to sign with one PRO as a songwriter and with the other PRO as a publisher. Do you agree with this idea? In which case, who offers the best deal in each case ?

[Cygnus64]

I have seen mentioned that it's a good idea to sign with one PRO as a songwriter and with the other PRO as a publisher. Do you agree with this idea? In which case, who offers the best deal in each case ?

ASCAP (I'm a member) is free to join, I don't know the policies of the others. To get in, you have to submit 6 credits, whether it's your name on an album, a printed program, etc. I don't know how stringent they are with checking those out.

 

Personally, having been active in the music biz for a long time, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over any of them. In the past, ASCAP has used a form of statistical sampling that is heavily skewed towards big name artists and labels. If you're song is played 20 times on the radio, you'll probably end up with $0. They don't really keep a record of each play. It's a bit like the Electoral College: one can get 30% of the vote but it's winner take all. In your case, your song could get 20 plays and Justin Bieber's song gets 980, so he will get credit for 1,000 plays. It's far more complicated than that, I'm just giving you a heads-up on what to expect.

[JeffLearman]

b) Register the name of my project and its logo also with the Library of the congress;

Nope, you do this with the US Patent and Trademark office, which is not part of the Library of Congress. Find out more about trademarks here:

 

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/index.jsp

 

Note that it used to be that to register a trademark, you had to do interstate commerce. For example, the band Question Mark and the Mysterians once came to my father to trademark their name. He said they'd have to get an out-of-state gig first; at that time they'd only played in Michigan at that time. The site above doesn't mention that, so perhaps something has changed in 50 years.

[ProfD]

This far, from the input I've been collecting, here and in other places, it seems to me that the best course of action for me would be:

 

a) Register my works with the Library of the Congress;

b) Register the name of my project and its logo also with the Library of the congress;

b) Become a member of a PRO organization such as BMI or ASCAP or.... (possibly the one that has an affiliation agreement with the equivalent organization on Portugal)

c) Use a distribution service such as Tunecore or other similar service (CD Baby etc)

d) Use a service like TAXI to get my work exposed to TV, Film, Advertising producers

e) Affiliate with HarryFox and / or SoundExchange for the collection of royalties that aren't covered by the PRO's.

f) Keep my hands free to cut any personal deals I may deem fit and fair directly with final clients.

 

As for choosing between BMI and ASCAP, does anyone have an advice here? What works best for you and why ?

 

Thanks

 

R.

After getting a copyright and establishing a publishing company, try to sell your own music instead of using a service. Network with artists, producers, record companies, ad agencies, etc.

 

Once there is a demand for your music i.e. legitimate clients, decide which PRO to join. In fact, they aren't really interested until there is money to be made.

[execlass2]

After getting a copyright and establishing a publishing company, try to sell your own music instead of using a service. Network with artists, producers, record companies, ad agencies, etc.

 

Once there is a demand for your music i.e. legitimate clients, decide which PRO to join. In fact, they aren't really interested until there is money to be made.

 

And I assume that, If I join one of the PRO's at a later stage, my royalties generated in the meantime will be collected by them on my behalf? How far back can they go?

[Cygnus64]

After getting a copyright and establishing a publishing company, try to sell your own music instead of using a service. Network with artists, producers, record companies, ad agencies, etc.

 

Once there is a demand for your music i.e. legitimate clients, decide which PRO to join. In fact, they aren't really interested until there is money to be made.

 

And I assume that, If I join one of the PRO's at a later stage, my royalties generated in the meantime will be collected by them on my behalf? How far back can they go?

 

No.

 

Again, I think you should read up more on "royalties", as it's a word thrown around quite a bit on sites like this. Very few situations will generate them: radio probably won't. If your music is placed in a film or TV, you'll likely get one check, one time only. Unless your contract specifies that you are on track to receive more payments, you won't get any.

 

I get royalties from AFTRA, I am a member. AFTRA How that works: major TV and Film studios pay into one large "pot". Depending on rentals and other things, the money is divided up by a point system. I get checks about 2x a year I think, it shows what they are for. A film or show has to be registered and on the list to collect, so your buddies documentary won't be on there. I get checks for "Friends", "Beverly Hills 90120", "Melrose Place" etc. which were all huge shows. I don't get any for other things: I'm on "Fahrenheit 911" and I've never got 1 cent to this day. I've played on a ton of PBS-type stuff that's been shown all over the place= for that, I get one check for about 300 bucks up front and that's it. This is as a player and not a writer, but it gives you a pretty good idea of how it works and what types of projects will pay out anything beyond the initial payment. There are a few other things that pay ("new use" being one), but in general it's very limited. VH1: Behind the Music doesn't pay a cent, I know 'cause I'm on one.

 

I do symphony arrangements: I'm starting to get a few (measely) checks with that, if the arrangements are played by a big enough orchestra in a big enough hall. The venue turns in programs, and the PRO's monitor the programming. If one has enough points out there, they may get a few bucks from that: every venue, orchestra etc pays a fee to the PROs and that's where the money comes from. John Williams probably does ok, the rest of us don't.