How does a band best control their volume?

[MuzikTeechur]

The original post makes the dangerous assumption that everyone in the band will know what makes for a "balanced" sound.

In my band, the bass player (who happens to be the owner of the band, and a very opinionated person, but plays like James Jamerson) plays through a 400W Hartke amp and absolutely shakes the rafters of the club.

He also controls the mixing board.

When we play with a sound guy, they are constantly having to tell him (the bass player) to turn down, because he's "driving the mix" - that is, he's so loud that the sound guy has to turn everyone up more than he'd like in order to balance the mix with the bass.

Just another bone of contention.

[Tonysounds]

I disagree...bands with IEM rarely play dynamically. If you mix yourself by working as a team, having everyone set-up tight with amps staged properly, it will result in a more dynamic performance. Putting everyone on IEM may reduce stage volume, but at the cost of having your band sound very boring.

 

Agree to disagree. To you have any experience playing with IEMs? I never bought the hype until I tried it.

 

 

+1. If anything, IEMs allow you to play MORE dynamically.

[JeffLearman]

I don't understand how a guy onstage wearing IEMs and playing an instrument can run sound. He's listening to the monitor mix in the IEMs. You need someone to run the mains who is hearing what the audience is in order to determine the loudness & balance.

With or without IEMs, it's a big compromise to mix from the stage. You can't hear what's out front. I've mixed from stage a number of times, but it's not my choice. Even then I need someone in the audience whose ears I can trust. Unfortunately not my wife, who always says the same thing "TURN DOWN". She's right, but since it's always the same message, it's no help!

[Ken Beaumont]

Our answer is someone goes into the audience and listens. Either with a wireless or just sitting out a song. We also regularly ask fans. If 3 out of 5 say the bass is too loud that's a clue. We play many of the same places, the eq settings are in our drive racks memory. After 5 years, we can pretty much nail the mix before the 1st song ends.

[Mike Davis]

The gear solutions are important, but, in my opinion at least, volume problems are more about consciousness. Or lack therof

[Griffinator]

If you are using small stage amps, and are unable to talk to each other on stage without raising the volume of your voice to be understood, you're too loud. The IE's complicate that statement. My last band used that as a measuring rule long before the advent of IE. We used stage monitors for vocals only and told the drummer if he was too loud in the first set, he wouldn't get paid. If he continued to be too loud in the second set, he could find another band.

 

 

While the sentiment of hanging a Sword of Damocles over the drummer is nice, I can only hazard a guess that this particular "rule" must have been for a cocktail jazz outfit, because you just can't play rock music (or blues, or a whole lot of other styles) at speaking volumes and be able to emote at all...

[Bob L]

Guys,

 

A lot of great ideas and I appreciate everyone's input. We are thinking of using IEMs but miking everything and putting them through the IEMs. We can't each have an individual mix, but hopefully get a IEM mix we can live with.

 

The sound man will not have control over everyone via a mixing board (as he usually does) but will be able to give us each a sign to turn up or down (and we need to adjust our volumes based on what he says). We won't likely have time by Saturday to purchase floor monitors.

 

Thanks for all the awesome advice and ideas. Ultimately everyone needs to listen to the sound mans instructions and keep things under control

[Eric Iverson]

Re: drummers

 

I played for a while at a church, where on the second floor the ceiling is very low. When it was just me on guitar (a little Fender Princeton on 1 or 2) and the keyboardist/singer and a couple other singers, it was fine. Then they brought the drummer upstairs.

Afterwards, one of the singers said to me, "we were literally screaming!" and wanted me to turn down - but I was only on 1 or at most 2. The drums were the problem, not me.

Turn down? Of course I could turn down, but then I wouldn't be heard at all, and it would STILL be too loud for the singers!

Unless you crank up their mikes and then the whole thing becomes a volume war.

I no longer play there, for that and assorted other reasons, but I still love the people. Some of the singers are actually quite talented. Sort of clueless about what's involved as an instrumentalist, though, LOL!

[CEB]

Our bass player gets a little too loud if he is too close to his rig. If he stands away from his rig his levels come down. I've told him he should turn it backwards but those Hartke cabinets are pretty. I played with guys in the past who used old SVTs or old Sunn rigs and they would turn the cabinet backwards toward the wall. I would have done the same with my guitar amps but I always used open back Fenders or Boogies.

 

Other than an occasional bass issue our stage volumes are low. We play rock music and the band can be friggin loud if that is what is wanted. But it is all PA. If stage volumes are ever too loud 90% of the time it is because the monitor are too loud. The loudest instrument on stage is often my leslie.

 

The guy that amazes me is the guitarist. He plays through a 100 watt Marshall half stack and most the time I can barely hear his amp. I have to hear him via Monitor or Mains. And his tone is good. This tells me good guitarist can manage their stage levels.

 

I hate this damn song but someone put it on YouTube. You can not really hear the guitar amp on stage. This is all PA.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIulVQkTLuI

 

 

The best way to avoid serious stage volume issues is to become the best possible musician you can be. Generally liketype musicaians play with each other and good bands play dynamically and at appropiate levels. If someone proves to be a problem you replace them. There is always someone looking for a paying gig.

 

We are going to IEMs. I am going to miss the Leslie but we are hoping for even better dynamic control.

 

Let the PA do the heavy lifting. If someone is too loud it is on the sound guy.

 

PS - I took down the 3 Steps video. I really am sick of that song.

 

 

[Mr. Nightime]

I think the big issue with the use of IEMs in this instance is only one mix. I stopped going through just the house and the communal monitors because I could never hear myself.

 

I need to have the keys a bit on top of everything to be comfortable. I've never been one to be able to play by "Braille". Other players can easily be the same with their sound, putting themselves on top.

 

If there's only one monitor mix for the IEM, there will be a volume war as everyone tries to get to the point where they're comfortable.

 

If you're going to use IEMs, each person will need to have their own mix so they can be comfortable without stepping on each other.

 

The Praise band I play with will be going to headphones on stage for our Easter production, since there is a drama that we're backing. There are multiple monitor mixes, and I have one of them all to myself. So for this I'll be able to be straight into the FOH and not need on stage amplification. (It helps the sound man is a piano player).