Fred_C Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I read the article in this month's issue on Knaggs Guitars. Yeah, they look nice. Are they $4,600 nice? The Collings I-35 Deluxe is a beautiful archtop but is it worth $5,300? For that kind of money, you should be able to drive it or sleep with it. When I look at instruments like the Carvin SH-550, or the Jarrett Zaffiro (gorgeous guitar), it becomes fairly obvious that I can get world class performance and aesthetics for under $2,000! In addition, both these manufacturers offer significant customization options and both are U.S. based. It's the same thing with used instruments. Aren't used instruments supposed to be cheaper than new instruments? I saw a used Gretsch Country Club online that was exactly the same price as a brand new one. I went to a guitar show and saw a used Guild Starfire II that was actually more expensive than it was new. I don't know what these guys are smokin' when they set pricing, but although I can't afford the guitars, I'd be happy to buy a half ounce of it. "It ain't the wand. It's the magician." If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 It's the same thing with used instruments. Aren't used instruments supposed to be cheaper than new instruments? That was before Craigslist made used instrument flipping available to the clueless. I saw a used Gretsch Country Club online that was exactly the same price as a brand new one. I went to a guitar show and saw a used Guild Starfire II that was actually more expensive than it was new. Gretsch has recently entered cult status & I'm pretty sure Fender has discontinued all Guild electric production. Discontinued equals rare & hordeable in many people's minds, but, yes, unless something is truly classic as well as highly sought after, used prices should start around 60% of original price for stuff that is common as dirt, like MIM Teles, going up to maybe 80-90% if it's a really desirable item. Gretsches, except for the entry level Electromatic solid bodies, tend to really hold their value. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Somebody with better math skills than me(which is just about anybody)should figure out the price increases by percentage. Like for instance, the price of a loaf of bread went from around 60 cents a loaf in 1972 to $2.20 in 2011; what percentage of increase is that? Of course, there are certain factors that can account for that increase. But what about guitars? In 1967 at a local music store, I fell in love with a Martin D-28 that at the time cost $300. That model today is over $3,000. What percentage of increase is THAT, and why? A year later, a Gibson Les Paul Goldtop I saw in a store was $500. What do they cost now? And why? My Epiphone FT-145 cost $179 in 1972, and although they've since discontinued that model, I wonder if they hadn't what it would sell for today. It does seem the prices have shot way up over the years. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Somebody with better math skills than me(which is just about anybody)should figure out the price increases by percentage. Like for instance, the price of a loaf of bread went from around 60 cents a loaf in 1972 to $2.20 in 2011; what percentage of increase is that? Of course, there are certain factors that can account for that increase. But what about guitars? In 1967 at a local music store, I fell in love with a Martin D-28 that at the time cost $300. That model today is over $3,000. What percentage of increase is THAT, and why? A year later, a Gibson Les Paul Goldtop I saw in a store was $500. What do they cost now? And why? My Epiphone FT-145 cost $179 in 1972, and although they've since discontinued that model, I wonder if they hadn't what it would sell for today. It does seem the prices have shot way up over the years. Whitefang The OP suggests we should be able to "drive" it for $3500... You couldn't "drive" much of anything for $3500 back in 1972... A McDonald's hamburger was 20 cents in 1962. It's a buck now - 5x increase in price. In 1962, a gallon of gas was 31 cents. In 1960, a year of tuition at Penn State was $1250. It's $42,098 now. Now... Consider the increasing scarcity of the exotic woods used in guitar manufacturing (solid maple, rosewood, mahogany, koa, ebony, etc...) and the increasing cost of artisan labor (as opposed to sweat-shop automatons who wouldn't know quality control if it hit them upside the head with a baseball bat), and you have your answer why small-run manufactured guitars are really f***ing expensive. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You couldn't "drive" much of anything for $3500 back in 1972... Actually, you probably could. http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70scars.html Just sayin'. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I buy cheap guitars and don't have to really care about them. That said, I know how to set them up, file the frets, solder new pups in etc, etc. So for me a cheap guitar is all I need. I do have several Gibsons, but only because I have owned them for a long time, the rest are cheap knockoffs that I have fixed up and I like them as well as the Gibsons. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I used to buy a gallon of gas for $.29/9 Now it is over three bucks. I used to earn two dollars an hour now it is $30+ per hour. (if I had the misfortune to have to go back to work) So it is all relative. I live the same now as I did then. I get by..... dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I remember when a pack of smokes cost $.25 and a gallon of gas cost about the same (circa 1966)...we could drive 20 miles to go surfing in Santa Cruz and back home on less than a buck...we still had to have riders chip in for gas as we were driving big block chevys and fords and only made $1.10 an hour...I'm kinda glad the prices are so high on guitars as I've got too many and do not want to buy anymore!!! but I do like to see cheap prices and low end stuff for the beginners out there...and for the guys that like to make a cheaper guitar sound like a million bucks... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 In the case of the Collings, that's a solid carved-top (and that price is actually an incredible deal as carved-top guitars go), not "just" an arched-top, which could be pressed into the arched-shape and would most often be a laminate. There's nothing wrong with either solid/carved or pressed/laminate, and each have their uses, pros, and cons; but the cost difference is understandably substantial. So the question there is, do you want or need to spend what it costs for a solid/carved top, or not? The answer for most of us is most often 'not', hence the greater number of pressed/laminate arched-top guitars. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEHpicker Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You couldn't "drive" much of anything for $3500 back in 1972... Actually, you probably could. http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70scars.html Just sayin'. In 1973, just out of high school, I bought my first brand new car right off the lot. Toyota Corolla SR5. $2,850. And the SR5 was a super deluxe version of the Corolla. Had some memorable dates in that little ride... SEHpicker The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The year of my birth- 1969- a Lotus Esprit cost $10k. I have chided my folks for not thinking ahead and getting me one. They, in response, gave me some silly rationalizations about how that was nearly the cost of the tiny house we then lived in that they could only afford due to family connections. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Hey Caevon, Your point is well taken. However, both the Carvin SH-550 and the Jarrett Zaffiro are also solid carved tops and solid mahogany bodies. You can buy one that's tricked out like a streetwalker on Saturday night for $1700-1900. My SH-550 has a 4X grade flame maple top, gold hardware, Abalone block inlay, stainless steel frets and Sperzel locking tuners. Plus, I had my choice of 14(!) beautiful finishes. Total price: $1799 delivered. I guess I'm just jealous of the guys who can afford instruments in the $4K++ price range. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I guess I'm just jealous of the guys who can afford instruments in the $4K++ price range. Who the hell isn't? I figure my G.A.S. list- including amps, pedals, and non-guitar instruments- is well over $100k at this point. Barring a lottery win or having a major client, I'm never going to see that kind of $$$$ materialize in anything resembling an unreasonable rate. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvuksanovich Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Some people like paying exorbitant amounts of of money for guitars. More power to them if they've got the coin. I taught an EXTREMELY rich guy back in the day and he wanted me to help him buy a classical guitar. We were in the shop and he was trying to decide between the most expensive guitar in the place (a Robert Ruck) and a great guitar by a slightly lesser known luthier (David Daily). He asked me, "If you were me which one would you buy?" I said, "If I were you... I'd buy them all." FYI - I happen to love my Carvin. Lots of guitar at a very fair price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Hey Caevon, Your point is well taken. However, both the Carvin SH-550 and the Jarrett Zaffiro are also solid carved tops and solid mahogany bodies. You can buy one that's tricked out like a streetwalker on Saturday night for $1700-1900. My SH-550 has a 4X grade flame maple top, gold hardware, Abalone block inlay, stainless steel frets and Sperzel locking tuners. Plus, I had my choice of 14(!) beautiful finishes. Total price: $1799 delivered. I guess I'm just jealous of the guys who can afford instruments in the $4K++ price range. Off the top of my head- I could be wrong, and I also don't mean to be argumentative, just kicking the ball around here- I believe that the carved-tops on those two are thicker, more "electric" type tops that can be primarily machined with less hand-work and individual attention; whereas that Collings, if I understand correctly, is by comparison more on the acoustic side of the fence, and requires much more hand-carving, "tap-tuning", etc. That's NOT to slight the Carvin and Zaffiro, not in the least- just to show that there's a wider apples vs oranges difference here, and more factors that influence cost. Again, I may be mistaken- please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong! I'd rather be corrected than to have misinformation posted here. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Hey Griff, You make some interesting points, but not so on the car. In 1973 I bought a brand new Karmann Ghia (yellow with black racing stripes) for $3,500. It was a cool car for a guy in his 20's. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 All good valid points. Thanks for your input. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Great Story! If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You couldn't "drive" much of anything for $3500 back in 1972... Actually, you probably could. http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70scars.html Just sayin'. In 1973, just out of high school, I bought my first brand new car right off the lot. Toyota Corolla SR5. $2,850. And the SR5 was a super deluxe version of the Corolla. Had some memorable dates in that little ride... Hey Griff, You make some interesting points, but not so on the car. In 1973 I bought a brand new Karmann Ghia (yellow with black racing stripes) for $3,500. It was a cool car for a guy in his 20's. Okay, okay, so I'm not as well-versed on automobile retail prices for the year before I was born as I should be... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Now, the guitar-price issue that drives me nuts is the escalating, inflating cost of "vintage" and many just plain old/used guitars that inexplicably get labeled "vintage". Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Now, the guitar-price issue that drives me nuts is the escalating, inflating cost of "vintage" and many just plain old/used guitars that inexplicably get labeled "vintage". Yeah, I can agree with this. Of course, there isn't much any of us can do about middle-aged wealthy men trying to compensate for their, uh, shortcomings in new and creative ways... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hey Griff, You make some interesting points, but not so on the car. In 1973 I bought a brand new Karmann Ghia (yellow with black racing stripes) for $3,500. It was a cool car for a guy in his 20's. I have a pretty distinct memory of a new VW Beetle being $1700 when I was in high school in the late 1960s. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Anyone else wanna beat up on me for my overestimation of car prices in the 70's? Anyone? A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A McLeod III Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I buy cheap guitars and don't have to really care about them. That said, I know how to set them up, file the frets, solder new pups in etc, etc. So for me a cheap guitar is all I need. I do have several Gibsons, but only because I have owned them for a long time, the rest are cheap knockoffs that I have fixed up and I like them as well as the Gibsons. + effin' 1 "Life Is Just A Game And They're Many Ways To Play...All You Do Is Choose." SC 1976 Fantom, XP 80, DX7 IIFD w/"E", Ensoniq ESQ 1, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Roland S 10, Korg Triton LE with EXB, GEM RP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Anyone else wanna beat up on me for my overestimation of car prices in the 70's? Anyone? Soon, Grasshopper, you will be strong enough to leave the monastery... Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Psmith Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Regarding those old Gretsch & Guild guitars - the prices on those have been creeping up for some time, and it's only going to get worse now that Fender has moved production overseas. I remember looking into the prices on Guild S-100's some time back - it's the SG-shaped solidbody that Kim Thayil played with Soundgarden - and new US-made SG's were more affordable. "Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King http://www.novparolo.com https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Right on, Bro! If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Man, your graphics are a riot! If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Which Carvin do you play? They really do give a lot of value for the buck, don't they? Both Carvin and Jarrett (I'm sure there are probably others) state in their Marketing verbiage that they will deliver an instrument, built to your spec for about half of what you would pay through a retailer. I also bought a Carvin electric/acoustic and it too is an incredible value. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Carvins are usually very excellent guitars! ESPECIALLY for the money. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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