Jazzwee Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks Bridog6996, that was an interesting summary. One of the Miles Davis Quintet tunes that I worked on heavily was Nefertiti. Same kind of thing. The melody pretty much was the base and the rest of the harmony just followed it (I liked your term 'shadowing the melody') Unfortunately, since the quintet didn't solo on it, it's always difficult to assume how one should solo over it. That's when being melodic becomes challenging. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 This is not going to be cohesive, so! "Melody" is a rare gift The way to improve melody writing ( which I assume will carry over to improv ) Is to write 100's of melodies... or so I have been told. When I think melodic gift I have a short list of composers and imrovisers. I think some excellent melodies go unnoticed because we take them for granted. Happy Birthday is an example. I think Mozart is a genius, yet some of his music goes over my head. I think if I spent more time with his music, it would eventually open up to me. Beethoven struggled with melody, Tchaikovsky seemed to have the gift to the extreme. Beethoven is possibly considered the greater composer, but Peter I T had an amazingly rare gift, perhaps the greatest- in the sense, it sounds effortless. Of course there was effort, but maybe you know what I mean; Beethoven wrote and rewrote and I don't sense that In Tchaikovsky. JS Bach is for me the most "profound" composer, which contradicts what I said about Tchaikovsky. Maybe music has more to it than melodic genius? Beethoven may be the more profound, compared to Tchaikovsky. In jazz, a few cats come to mind. Erroll Garner, Duke's melodies ( Strayhorn?, sorry I am not a music detective ) Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock. Stevie Wonder Now that I have rambled enough about the mystery of melody Some melodies that got my attention Ave Maria ( not sure which composer - tonic as 1.. 1 7 1 3 2 1 2 3 2 1 7 6 7 8) Lush Life John Mclauglin's Dance of Maya blows me away the first 15- 18 minutes of Tristan Dolphin Dance Butterfly Hancock Dance of Sugar Plum ( I can't think of Peter Tchaikovsky's title ) Pensativa Fischer Puccini the composer Why not join in, and mention some of your favorite masterpieces ? ( I know McCartney but there are others! ) You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconhairpiece Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Somewhere Over the Rainbow has been called THE greatest melody of the 20th century. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 One of my teachers, is well known for melody making. I have a lesson today that will be interesting. I was just going to noodle melodies in front of him. I'm curious as to how he would alter what I do, in real time. A 'mentoring' approach rather than just stating a set of rules. I'm going to tackle Body and Soul. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmonkey Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I've been following this thread without posting because I'm having a difficult time putting my thoughts into words. I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "good melody". It seems there are a lot of melodies whose goodness we take for granted, and don't question. People speak reverently of the Great American Songbook, all those standards that have become the meat-and-potatoes of jazz. But are they really all that great? I mean... I can hum Body And Soul beginning to end because I've played it a million times. But, stripped of its fading cultural relevance and its clever lyrics, it is just a string of notes that I've memorized. It doesn't really say anything to me.... or maybe I should say it doesn't say anything important to me. It is clever and pleasant enough but... Sometimes a simple pentatonic melody that doesn't go anywhere moves me much more than an intelligent nuanced melody that suggests sophisticated harmony all by itself. Similarly, I think Wayne Shorter melodies are some of the lamest melodies! I actually love his music, but to me the excitement comes from blowing on those crazy changes. The melodies, taken out of their clever (brilliant) harmonic context are quite boring to me! (most of them, at least) I'm weird, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm weird, right? If you've read the thread, then hopefully you're responding to what I was saying, that some of this appreciation for melody could be "context", IMO (culture, receptiveness to the performer, familiarity, etc.). And secondly, I said that sometimes being melodic isn't the goal but harmonic texture. No one seemed to respond much to that because I guess everyone knows their favorite melody is just the greatest. So there couldn't possibly be any differences in perception. Could there? Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridog6996 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As it relates to music theory, harmony is an extension of melody, so I think melody and harmony are inextricably tied to each in our minds as well. When you hear a familiar melody, your brain understands it by automatically filling in a harmonic context, and furthermore I don't think you need to be a musician or otherwise musically inclined for this to happen. Like many things, it likely comes down to conditioning, because this relationship between melody and harmony exists in all the music we hear. Somewhere Over the Rainbow has been called THE greatest melody of the 20th century. Just sayin' By whom? My YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Here's a video I just saw which says a lot about melody. Playing from the mind or from the heart. [video:youtube] AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As it relates to music theory, harmony is an extension of melody, so I think melody and harmony are inextricably tied to each in our minds as well. When you hear a familiar melody, your brain understands it by automatically filling in a harmonic context, and furthermore I don't think you need to be a musician or otherwise musically inclined for this to happen. Like many things, it likely comes down to conditioning, because this relationship between melody and harmony exists in all the music we hear. If I play a C what harmony comes up? If I play a C then a C an oct higher what harmony comes up ? Hindemith addresses this relationship, but I have difficulty following his explanations. He has a book on melody itself. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Here's a video I just saw which says a lot about melody. Playing from the mind or from the heart. [video:youtube] +11111 Are we just old schoolers with bias in our heads? You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridog6996 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 If I play a C what harmony comes up? If I play a C then a C an oct higher what harmony comes up ? That's kind of an impossible question to answer, since by definition, a melody must be a sequence of notes. With no other tones to orient with I suppose you could hear anything, although subconsciously, most people would probably hear a C-based chord, either major or minor. I don't think many people people would interpret a single note as melodic, however, and there's the underlying problem with the question. Once you hear a succession of tones relative to each other, the harmonic implications become significantly more focused. At that point, a person's brain will go about putting the notes in a logical context, although that context would vary from person to person. Assuming we're talking about hearing an unknown melody, there's no right or wrong, but I think everybody would hear "something," regardless of whether they have the knowledge or capability to express what that something is. My YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 If I play a C what harmony comes up? I would say, it would depend on what the people hearing are conditioned to hearing. Like sometimes I hear things as the third of the chord and I assume the root if the note is played high up. If played low, I might automatically think of it as a root because the overtones would suggest the harmony. Interesting thought though. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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