VAX77 - Mac Mini - Mainstage

[hoggernick]

In the meantime, will use mini monitor and trackpad, or iPad to shut it down.

 

Oops, just read this. You're already planning for basically what I was suggesting.

[ADino]

@Beethree..Another good thing is to clone your drives. There are a few good free cloners on the net. That way, if you ever have a drive failure, you can install the cloned drive n be good to go.

Its best to wait until you have your drives set, or all of your samples, programs etc installed and updated and are in a position to buy a few spare hdd's.

[Phil Aiken]

Did not get to midipipe yet - but I have that little monitor and trackpad going, so I can shut it down the old fashioned way for now. I'll post the midipipe/applescript results when I can get to it.

 

Re: Cloning drives - Will definitely do so - sooner rather than later. I have the original drives the mini came with, both 7200 RPM conventional drives. I bought one little enclosure for around 10 dollars and will clone the system drive in that. I have an emergency concert that does not rely on samples from the data drive, so I can run it off a USB connection. I already have copies of everything on the sample drive, but will probably make a clone any way just because I have the spare drive.

 

I realized I don't have the correct firewire 800 to 400 cable to run my fireface, so just for tomorrow will use the USB in on my little Allen and Heath mixer. I knew that port would come in handy one day.

[ADino]

Cool..meanwhile, Im looking around my studio trying to

figure what to sell n how to get a vax. Just when you thought u were good 2 go.

[Marzzz]

The only way I know to get a VAX is directly from Infinite Response. You very rarely see them for sale.

[ADino]

You dont see them 4 sale...

[Joe Muscara]

What do you mean?

[Marzzz]

You very rarely see them for sale second hand. Nearly all VAX77 owners are quite ecstatic.

[Joe Muscara]

k. Though one or two have been listed in our Garage Sale at some points IIRC.

[Moon Zero Two]

too late I got one of the used ones from a fellow formite about 6 weeks ago...

[ADino]

I was going to ask previous owners why they sold theirs, but

nevermind, I could only find 1 seller..I see Marzz sold 1 because he had 2!

[AnotherScott]

I was going to ask previous owners why they sold theirs, but

nevermind, I could only find 1 seller..I see Marzz sold 1 because he had 2!

I sold mine.

 

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I couldn't find a velocity mapping that worked for me when driving pianos that didn't have suitable velocity adjustments of their own (i.e. pianos in other keyboards or rack modules, as opposed to computer-based software pianos). I had to lay in too hard to get the higher velocities. I do wonder how well that could have been addressed with an external velocity mapper, and how much effort it would have been. (There is also a downside of velocity mapping, as you effectively reduce the 127 velocity levels to something less.)

 

I also found its 37 lbs a bit heavy to deal with.

 

Other than that, I had a few minor complaints...

 

The keyboard edges seemed unnecessarily sharp, a thumb gliss was uncomfortable I'd prefer those edges to be slightly rounded.

 

I thought the pedal-to-octave-shift idea was great, but I wanted the lower octaves locked in place (for LH bass), and wanted the pedal to just shift the upper part of the split to get at the "extra" octave, that would have made the feature much more useful to me.

 

It has "QuickSet" pages that give you instant access to 8 definable performance buttons at a time, and you can have 16 of those pages, but I wished for a way to instantly jump to a desired page... instead you have to scroll through them.

 

It would be nice if it could integrate assigning sounds to an attached second controller as well. Kurzweil does that, I believe.

 

 

[ADino]

Thanks AScott, its good to hear different opinions, especially on something I have yet to see, or play.

[Joe Muscara]

You dont see them 4 sale...

Check the Garage Sale area...

[Marzzz]

You dont see them 4 sale...

Check the Garage Sale area...

Well, there ya go.......!

[Littidy]

Just to add my two cents. I had almost the same set up that Beethree is running for 1.5 years using a mac mini server with to 500g 7200rpm drives and 8gig ram. Ran Mainstage. I had it racked with the minirac next to a whirlwind A/V Direct box on the other side of the rack...instead of two mac minis like the pic earlier in this thread. I used the 7" mimo and enabled the touchscreen (didn't use it much, only for shutdown). I also had a trackpad that just sat on my Novation Impulse. I ran the mimo up the ultimate stand and sat it on the ledge behind the impulse. The impulse did all the work for patch switching and tweaking. slick, no major issues, great sounds. I used my ipad with the Ultimate Guitar app as a cheat sheet connected to the ultimate stand mic adapter with an iKlip. QSC K10 for reinforcement. I used the direct 1/8" out from the mac mini into the whirlwind and had great results. I didn't notice much latency unless I got greedy and used 32ms with a full load.

 

Truepianos

VB3 1.4

Kontakt

Imposcar

Minimonstah

KAB

 

still have it..just not gigging right now.... I recommend heartily... I also carried around a racked up 17" Dell monitor... in case I need to tweak anything major with the mini... it was a cheap investment and it mostly staying on the trailer or in the car

[Phil Aiken]

Just to add my two cents. I had almost the same set up that Beethree is running for 1.5 years using a mac mini server with to 500g 7200rpm drives and 8gig ram. Ran Mainstage. I had it racked with the minirac next to a whirlwind A/V Direct box on the other side of the rack...instead of two mac minis like the pic earlier in this thread. I used the 7" mimo and enabled the touchscreen (didn't use it much, only for shutdown). I also had a trackpad that just sat on my Novation Impulse. I ran the mimo up the ultimate stand and sat it on the ledge behind the impulse. The impulse did all the work for patch switching and tweaking. slick, no major issues, great sounds. I used my ipad with the Ultimate Guitar app as a cheat sheet connected to the ultimate stand mic adapter with an iKlip. QSC K10 for reinforcement. I used the direct 1/8" out from the mac mini into the whirlwind and had great results. I didn't notice much latency unless I got greedy and used 32ms with a full load.

 

Truepianos

VB3 1.4

Kontakt

Imposcar

Minimonstah

KAB

 

still have it..just not gigging right now.... I recommend heartily... I also carried around a racked up 17" Dell monitor... in case I need to tweak anything major with the mini... it was a cheap investment and it mostly staying on the trailer or in the car

 

Glad you had good experiences,. I am pretty jazzed on it so far. Trying to work out the ergonomics in the way that makes the most sense for me, and may get the minirac like you.

 

 

 

[jazzkeysxs8]

My first post here Thanks in advance for reading. This Vax is my first Midi controller. I use a motif xs8 normally. But that heavy weight lifting to gigs was getting me down. I've embarked on quite the learning curve - any help is much appreciated.

 

I'll post pictures of my Vax77 setup(s) when I figure out how.

My 1st setup: I'm running Sampletank on my iPad2 which is docked on top of the Vax77 in an Alessis ioDock with phones out and 1/4 inch outs to FOH. I have played 5 or 6 gigs with this setup, but I'm still searching.... Polyphony is not great but is far better than the IOS GarageBand app which is unusable for live piano work. Can we all pray for Mainstage to be released for IOS?

 

My 2nd setup: Running Mainstage 2 30 - bargain! on my friends Macbook Pro.

With this I'm using the Behringer Xenyx 302 as a surprisingly good USB powered interface with Low/Hi/Pan EQ. Not happy with the stereo phono outs though. I had a dodgy phono lead that let me down on the last gig. I'd prefer XlR outs. Anybody know of a small USB powered interface with 2 XLR outs with Low/Hi/Pan EQ and a nice phones out? I couldn't find a Radial DI that acts as a USB interface.

 

Why am I posting?

I am absolutely TORN between buying a MacMini (like Brad - thanks for all your generously informative posts ) and a MacBook Air.

I can stretch my budget to buy either but worry that immediate buyers regret will set in. Just my luck that Mainstage "3" for iPad would be released the next day

 

I love Brad's MacMini setup. Rugged. No battery to worry about deteriorating. (which happened a white macbook of mine) Mini is not as stealable as a flashy laptop. Imagine coming back to the bandstand after a break to find your laptop/iPad gone. "Sorry guys, I'm out of the band amn't I.. I'll wait at the bar " Maybe the Macmini gives the "sense or feeling" of using a hardware synth on stage. Using a laptop onstage may give the audience a sense that you may not be playing live or are using backing tracks. Not that backing trackers are bad.

 

The Macbook Air might overheat if the screen is left closed for a 3 or 4 hour gig period (running Caffeine program or NoSleep Utility)

The MacMini could just remain almost exclusively a gigging tool - as opposed schlepping my poor MBA around the house / day job surfing the web with my precious sound source susceptible to online threats, coffee/beer spills, household pets and drops.

Essentially, once setup, the Mini sits quietly in the gigging box as an expensive untweakable-on-the-fly but powerful sound module. Untweakable unless bring that Mimo monitor/trackpad with you (thanks Brad ) .

I know the iPad can be hooked up using VNC to the Mini as a monitor but I frequently use the iPad to read chords charts and setlists during the gig and I think I'd rather have my chord charts entirely separate to my sound source.

 

I'd see the Mini as a one-purpose tool.

I wouldn't worry about the macmini during a gig.

Don't have to worry about "keeping the laptop battery turning over" if i neglect the battery to die for a month.

 

Mini Cons.

No screen

No mouse.

No keyboard.

No battery.

Not a multipurpose laptop.

 

 

MacBook Air "Cons" (2.0 GHz 8GB RAM 512GB SDD)

Stealable

Breakable

More expensive

2,328.01 is an expensive sound module!

I'll need either a manly leather laptop bag to bring it around with me before gigs, during breaks or

I'll need a secure locking mechanism to lock the laptop in a bag / heavy rack onstage so I can go roaming during the break - "carefree". (Using a heavy security rack defeats the

concept of having the portable Vax setup)

Anybody have light portable security suggestions?

 

MacBook Air "Pros!"

 

Slightly lighter than MBP/Mini

Less expensive than MBP

You can easily print out emergency music charts for the band at hotel reception if put on the spot by a client/manager.

 

Also, emotionally...

Would I regret having a mac mini? Resent the fact that its worth 1000 and it just sits in a box until the gig, when it could be used for excellent web browsing or watching movies on the HD telly. Basically to ensure its stability and long service/longevity I'd have to have to discipline to leave it alone in a rack box to do its job. Its sole purpose to be a sound module.

 

Would I regret having to look after a macbook air during the break on a gig and not surf the web with it for fear of a virus / dodgy application screwing up my precious sound source.

 

There are further gigging Mac considerations.

 

Can it play CDs/DVD's in emergency at gig (not Retina display or MBA or MacMini)?

Can it be brought into hotel lobby to download a song from internet in an emergency?

Can be opened to look up song chords or lyrics in an emergency?

The screen is there ready to be opened to edit Mainstage parameters etc.

Could be used for a DJ set after gig.

Could be used on the fly for email.

Could setup garageband on the fly to record an entire gig (mainstage does this anyway)

 

Macbook Pro "Cons"

Slightly heavier than MBA

More expensive

My friends MBP (and white macbook) CD/DVD drive stopped working.

Extreme: the screen can be broken if left open onstage from a head banging guitarist or flying drumstick, unlike a headless MacMini!

 

 

 

It all boils down to compromise.. which is more flexible and which will let me down? MacMini or Macbook Air. I am a pro musician and shouldn't worry about my tools so that I can relax and concentrate on the music.

 

Thanks people.

[mate stubb]

jazzkeysxs8,

 

You cannot embed images in this forum from an email url, they have to be hosted on the web somewhere.

[Josh Paxton]

Why am I posting?

I am absolutely TORN between buying a MacMini (like Brad - thanks for all your generously informative posts ) and a MacBook Air.

 

I'm just starting to use Brad's MacMini setup, and I'm digging it a lot. And when I say I'm using his setup, I mean it literally; I bought his machine, monitor, trackpad and software licenses from him. I was a total newbie to Mainstage, and really to VSTs in general, and my progress has been slow due to other time commitments. But as I get more comfortable with it, I'm really impressed with what it can do and how simple it can make things once you get it set up right.

 

Rather than a VAX, I'm using it with my Mojo. So everything but organ is coming from Mainstage. Mostly I'm doing pretty simple setups, like organ on the top manual and piano or EP on bottom, but there are a few more complicated split/layer combinations too. For some gigs I'll need few enough setups to go "headless" and do the whole thing without a monitor, just using the Mini as a module; other gigs will require a monitor. For that, I'm still exploring options of the Mimo vs. an iPad + VNC solution. But the overall stability of the setup has been great. Once I get it all ironed out, I'll have no fear using it on a gig.

[Phil Aiken]

Glad to see this thread reopened.

I continue to be extremely happy with the VAX/mini/mainstage rig.

I have the mini racked as mentioned above, with an RME Babyface racked next to in instead of a second mini. I have a rectangle on the top of the rack on the babyface side cut out so I can access it from the top.

In a one keyboard rig, I velcro the rackmounted mini to the top of the VAX, and also a VOCE V5 for drawbar control. I have a Pelican case with space cut out for that rack, that also holds all of my cords. I have the MIMO USB monitor, but I don't even set it up at this point unless I want to tweak something before a show.

In a 2 keyboard rig, the rack goes in a regular 3 space rack, and the 2nd keyboard sits on top of the VAX.

 

It is working like a charm for me, and I have setting up down to a science. I am set to boot directly into Mainstage, the mini has 2 SSD's, and I have had zero issues.

 

Will try to post some pix of the rig, with the single space rack on top.

 

[joeljjison]

If I was to go down this route, I'd like to be able to use my already existing Motu Ultralite MK3, which is 1u , but half width.

 

Does anyone have any ideas for how to put the two things in a 1u case?

[Phil Aiken]

Yes....which is what I did with the Babyface....get the Sonnet rac mac mini and stick the Ultralite on one side. In my case I cut out a rectangle on TOP of the Sonnet, to be able to access the top of the Babyface....but if I bought an Ultralite I was going to cut out the front panel.

Make really sure you get the exact measurements of the Ultralite vs. a Mac Mini, especially with regards to HEIGHT, before you purchase the Sonnet, however. If it is too tall, it will not work out with the cover without additional modifications. This was the case with my Fireface 400...too tall.....Probably could have made it work with the correct cutting, but it would have stuck up above the top of the Sonnet, which I didn't want.

 

[Brad Kaenel]

Welcome to the forum, Jazzkeysxs8.

 

I agree with you that whatever computing platform you go with, you should treat it as a dedicated device for your rig, and not a general-purpose computer that you use for other things besides acting as a sound source for the Vax.

 

That being the case, it makes sense to me to select a computer that doesn't force me to pay for features or peripherals that almost never get used. Besides its ruggedness, this is why the Mini made sense to me. Screens are expensive; batteries are expensive; keyboards, etc. All of those things add fixed costs that won't benefit you much once you setup Mainstage.

 

A good used MacMini will be half the price of any MB, at least. If you bought a dedicated rompler module or a Musebox, you'd spend about the same.

[jazzkeysxs8]

Thanks for all of your replies Funkeystuff, Beethree, Joel and Brad . I've taken the plunge. I have a Mini ordered. 2.7 GHz 8GB ram 256GB ssd. Its probably overkill - like hiring an olympic weightlifter to push your shopping trolley around for you, but I figure if I get ten happy years of gigging out of this vax / mini rig, its money well spent. If Apple bring out Mainstage for iPad though, I may implode with rage.

 

I'm looking at audio interfaces because I frequently get asked by different bandleaders - sound-guys to tweak my piano / E.Piano EQ's on the fly at different gigs.

 

I like the RME Babyface and Motu has a great brand, but I recently stumbled upon the Vestax Tank.

 

http://www.vestax.com/v/products/detail.php?cate_id=37&parent_id=8

 

The Tank can give me in ear monitors, XLR stereo to front of house, separate output for onstage speaker/s and EQ the whole lot. It looks like it would velcro neatly on top of the mini (velro'd on top of the vax) - fold it all down into the one hard-rolling case for super fast tear-down after gigs.

 

Anybody any experience with Vestax / Tank products?

Or should i just stick with a DI Radial like Brad, summing stereo down to mono - seems like a waste of money after spending so much on a mac mini for quality sounds to have it reduced to mono though. Its definitely simpler to go mono. Decisions, decisions.

 

My next Vax / Mini Quest:

 

Quality & fullness of EQ'd (Tank) stereo

VS.

Compact reliability easy setup/tear down of (Radial pro av1) DI mono.

 

Cheers guy/girls.

JK

[Phil Aiken]

No experience with Vestax, but I will say that RME's reputation for having solid drivers on the mac is excellent, and indeed, mine has worked flawlessly.

 

 

 

[jazzkeysxs8]

Thanks Beethree.

 

Hi everybody, here's an update on my Vax 77 to Mac Mini to Mainstage setup.

 

USB FAIL.

The Behringer USB interface handshake with the headless mac mini and mainstage has let me down twice when rehearsing with bands.

I must add, that the Behringer usb interface on its own is great, when there is a computer screen involved, which I don't have.

Thankfully this didn't happen on a gig yet, although I have had to plug my hdtv into the mac's hdmi to restart mainstage before a gig due to me shutting the mac's power off [not "selecting" shut down, just hamfistedly pressing the off button!] after a previous gig. Then there was a further pop up Mainstage window asking me if I wanted to use the Behringer usb interface as my Audio output)

The hdtv is quite cumbersome, it makes that Mimo monitor very attractive.

 

Question 1:

Are the Mac touch screen drivers for the Mimo functional yet?

 

Question 2:

Is there a remote other than the official mac-provided, battery-operated remote that could:

a)shut down all applications safely?

b)shut down the mac safely?

...so that its rocks-out-of-the-box for the next gig.

 

Preferably, a remote that plugs into the mac (usb?) that doesn't require batteries.

 

I don't like the idea of setting up wifi connections on a gig for VNC or remote desktop control from an iOS device or android.

An iPad is very robbable, and wireless connections scare me.

 

I suppose I was initially scared of running an entire keyboard gig from a mac in the first place. The first step...

 

Or do I even need any of these externals, remotes, touch screens, VNCs, iPads?

Can I just select a setting in the mac to NOT have a pop up window on boot up saying that I didn't power down properly - preventing the next boot-up mainstage - vax handshake?

Just press OFF? and go home - stress free, happy in the knowledge that it'll all work again tomorrow, seamlessly.

 

Regarding audio and the vax / Mac Mini:

 

Now, I'm just using the 1/8 inch stereo output jack on the Mac.

I really hope the mac's 1/8 inch stereo jack output stands the test of time and the rigors of the stage.

 

Is anybody firmly against this?

 

I'm going to hunt for a right-angled 1/8 stereo jack to two XLRs.

I have Mackie 402 that fits nicely on top of the Mac Mini on top of the Vaxx 77.

 

http://www.mackie.com/products/402vlz3/

 

So the audio chain goes:

Mac Mini: 1/8 inch stereo jack to two XLRs lead

To Mackie 402: two XLR in's to two 1/4 Jack Outs (EQ'd and stereo panned) [it has a very ugly wall wart / plug box]

To two separate passive In Line Audio DI boxes (jacks to XLRs) http://www.zzounds.com/item--HTWHWDB500

To Front of House desk, whatever that may be on any given gig - hopefully two channels anyway.

 

I'm whittling down my ultimate setup, but it seems to be a never ending quest at the moment.

 

I'm eyeing up the "invisible" keyboard stand now.

http://www.mesonline.com/stands/keyboard/micro-kb10/details-kb10.html

I usually use the ultimate support stand, but I'm getting older and its not getting any lighter. It is great and super steady and has served me well for 5 / 6 years. It'll be my "home" stand, not my "road" stand. Its a wrist breaker when bringing it out to the car when your wrists are already tired from the gig.

 

Anybody use invisible stands while sitting down?

 

Amp, amps, amps? Wrong thread I suppose, but it has relevance in my quest for this portable vax mac mainstage trio.

My Behringer powered amp fell the other day and has been making electrical noises on and off since. I don't know if this is my cue to buy a more portable alternative (any excuse to buy gear ), or just get it fixed.

 

Would a pair of roland cubes running stereo on stage do Mainstage / vax justice?

I don't fancy lugging my yamaha monitors around the country, though they sound excellent. I've been resistant to buying Roland keyboard amp due to some scathing reviews online, and I've personally tried out a Roland KC amp which. Was. Not. Good.

But, a guitarist AND a bass guitarist I know use the guitar and bass roland cubes and get a GREAT sounds, which has reignited my interest in roland.

 

Are cubes good for mainstage?

Thanks for any replies.

 

My goals are:

1. the quickest setup possible

2. lightest gear possible

3. best sound possible

4. quickest tear down time possible

 

Like a ninja.

[zapper]

question is only if mac mini is reliable enough to handle stage...

When I bought mine some loose micro screw was rattling inside the case.

[Marzzz]

Regarding audio and the vax / Mac Mini:

 

Now, I'm just using the 1/8 inch stereo output jack on the Mac.

I really hope the mac's 1/8 inch stereo jack output stands the test of time and the rigors of the stage.

 

Is anybody firmly against this?

 

I'm going to hunt for a right-angled 1/8 stereo jack to two XLRs.

I have Mackie 402 that fits nicely on top of the Mac Mini on top of the Vaxx 77.

I had an a discussion with Eddie Jobson's tech Hans Tobeason, and was surprised to learn that Jobson, who is quite OCD regarding his gear and sound, was perfectly happy with Hans running directly from the 1/8 stereo jacks of three MacBook Pros (using right-angled plugs) without any problems, and with good sound. Because of his setup, they were running into DI boxes first, but if your mixer has hi-impedence (line-level) inputs, it won't be necessary unless you have ground loop hum. Doesn't seem to be a problem in my MBPr.