Older vs newer keyboards- speaker placement

[I-missRichardTee]

This is long, but if you are looking to help me out I would appreciate it! Maybe just read the highlighted text??

This will sound implausible to some - but the Kurz PC 88 is still in my arsenal. I tried later model Kurzweil's and keep going back to the nearly 20 year old ( ver 1.00 !!) relic! A keyboard player made a comment to me: He said 'keyboards of the past 7 years or so do NOT sound as good in MONO as in earlier models.'

 

I am in a new situation for me ( unlike many of you ) I just joined a "pop" band where I do NOT play left hand bass.

The band's volume we play at, is much louder than I have "done" in decades... but the band is quite talented. OT What kind of EAR PLUGS to protect hearing- not drug store deal... but ones that permit "musicality" to come through??

 

I am entering into " HOW MANY keyboards , and WHICH keyboards, to cover all the various sounds?" mode. And yes, I have enjoyed reading a nice thread here at KC on this topic.

 

Back to PC88... I would love to get another successor to PC88 but I am very hesitant to just buy the latest. I played ( regretfully) a non weighted PC 2 - not sure of precise model, and hated it in MONO... vastly inferior to PC88. Much of this community may have forgotten ( not all ) the mojo of older keyboards- eg the JV 1000 ( another all time fave JV 1000 was $5000 compared to $2400 for JV 80 !!! ) slays its successor, the JV 60- 80 series... for me.. no comparison.

I own the Fantom G6.... for the life of me, I only see a limited role with this board.. I have seen many preferring IT'S predesessor the Fantom X.

The DX 7 was great for decades as was Roland D 50. I still think the D50 and the JV 1000 are in some hard to describe way... better for Live.

 

I would love 2 keyboards max... 3 would solve the issues, of course... but THREE !! ( weighted... unweighted Organ... synth ).

 

The problem with the Kurz PC 88, is it has so few keyboard sounds 1 clav, a couple rhodes, 2 organ,

But what PC88 DOES do, it does very very well, such as being in MONO.

 

I don't know what the causes are that make older instruments in some ways clearly better for Live- I am thinking all the detail of the newer keyboards demands that it be played in stereo. And a stereo field not only be for the player, but also for the band not to mention the audience. That is a 6 cabinet situtation.

It seems like such a simple ( a trap?? ) solution to buy 2 of the latest boards... but I am hesitant and have much experience that disuades that impulse purchase; without first having intelligent discussions here!

 

Sometimes I think that a massive ( 6 cabs ) PA and a $500- $1500 Casio is ALL you need, as opposed to the 3 of the latest keyboard ( synth- organ- weight pianos ) and a lesser PA.

I know this rambled, but if you read it, you also know there is some meat on this thread too! So any helpful observations ( Weighted Kronos and an unweighted Nord for Organs and synths- maybe maybe but is Kronos ac piano truly as good as PC88 in MONO??? ) ideas, suggestions, experiences, are all what makes this forum such entertaining reading.

Thank you

[Joe Muscara]

Earplugs - custom molded with Etymotic filters. I have the ones that look exactly like the ones on this page.

[I-missRichardTee]

Thank you.. for that. Question. DO I have to choose between the 3 degrees of filtering db's? Do you recommend the heavier protection of 25 db or?

Thanks again.

[CEB]

The D-50 IMO still holds up well. The DX-7 is still usable for certain things I just never learned how to program a DX7.... and I used to write 360 and 8088 assembler.

 

I am doing my best to avoid the 3 keyboard rig by using my Hammond clone to double as a rack synth Controller.

 

I don't think the game has really changed that much since 1987. Just incremental rises in sonic quality over time and the keybeds now suck.

[johnchop]

You haven't tried the PC3X? I have the PC3 (semi-weighted). Sounds great in mono. Not sure what you are missing there.

 

A PC3 + a Roland G6. I dunno... if you can't cover a ton of gigs with that, you're doing it wrong. :-)

 

You can search here for all the back and forth about Nords and Kronoses and whatever else. It's a meaningless discussion IMO. Get your hands on the boards. Buy what you connect with. There's nothing OBJECTIVE about how it sounds.

 

It's really only worth anyone's time here to discuss SPECIFIC FEATURES (i.e. I want mod wheels, not a joystick, OR I need multiple outs, or whatever).

 

Sound? In what I've seen so far, it's just a bunch of folks shootin' the sh*t.

 

-John

[Joe Muscara]

Thank you.. for that. Question. DO I have to choose between the 3 degrees of filtering db's? Do you recommend the heavier protection of 25 db or?

Thanks again.

When I bought mine, they provided two, full stop and 25 dB, I think. They're interchangeable, so you can have different sets and change them depending on your needs.

[I-missRichardTee]

I appreciate your down home approach ( been in San Diego too long - former New York City guy )

There is one clear point ( it has taken me years to see this and now express it )

The PA is a KEY to the sound.

If PA is killer ( on pockets and bodily aches ) the keyboard can be almost anything

Just give me about 8 stereo speakers and I am in heaven ... and the quality of the board greatly takes a back seat.

ONE speaker and the whole ball game changes toward a whole other aural chemistry.

 

There I said it !

Thanks

[I-missRichardTee]

Amplifying ( ha ha ) my last PA point.

I am not even sure the quality has to be top notch.... I suspect the opposite.

I think the sheer NUMBER of well placed, even lightweight cabs are a major key. Not junk, but stuff you can buy at your low end Guitar Center is more than enough.

 

I think 2 speaker ( everything is Left Right kind of Surround sound ) down low and near you ( not unlike the effect of playing a real piano ) two more speaker up high but still near you that is four so far

 

Then 2 more further away

then 2 more maximal distance away.

 

this includes you.... the band and the audience.

For me the performer ( me ) is primary, the band is a close second, the audience is last. I know that is unpopular here, but that is my take.

6 to 8 speakers of medium to low quality, if they were lightweight, and not even that big... maybe two would be bigger.... I think this would kill.

 

Edit: I played a gig with a keyboardist ( i played bass) he brought TWO speakers for a dinky little jazz gig, sans drums.. just him, me on bass and sax.

he had a killer $4000 Nord Stage. Guess what? it sucked.

He is a fine player... it was the speaker placement. He placed both low to the ground ( wedges ) surround him ONLY. I did not hear his stereo ac piano image. It was jazz in a poor acoustic room.. so he played softly. But his soft, translated to too soft for me. The twin speakers right next to his ears, had a paradoxical effect.. he had to play softer, because he heard himself TOO well, you could say.

Perhaps ( I am asking for input ) if he had raised them off the floor, I could hear him better, and he would have to turn up a tad BECAUSE he had speaker in air.... OR maybe a third or fourth speaker?

Speaker placement seems to be critical to playing gigs, huh?

[David Loving]

Keep the PC88 at home [i love that pc88] and get an sp4/88 for gigs - that will cover about every sound you'd need. Speakers? I'm a fan of running it through the house or the band's PA and getting keys into your monitor. I hate having to take an amp and speakers and mixer for a piano mini PA. I bought a band I'm in 4 little Kustom 10" speakers for monitor speakers and they are surprisingly fine.

[I-missRichardTee]

" Kustom 10" " I faintly recall the name- kind of cheap but passable eh?

How much are the- a single 10" cab?

[nickd]

I use Etymotic earplugs: http://www.etymotic.com/hp/er20.html. I'd recommend them as a good low-cost option - work well, and cheap enough you can buy multiple pairs and keep them in your keyboard bags so there's no risk of forgetting them.

 

Regarding the questions on keys and amplification - there's loads of threads on this forum if you search, with plenty of recommendations of kit that people really like.

[Justin Havu]

 

Edit: I played a gig with a keyboardist ( i played bass) he brought TWO speakers for a dinky little jazz gig, sans drums.. just him, me on bass and sax.

he had a killer $4000 Nord Stage. Guess what? it sucked.

He is a fine player... it was the speaker placement. He placed both low to the ground ( wedges ) surround him ONLY. I did not hear his stereo ac piano image. It was jazz in a poor acoustic room.. so he played softly. But his soft, translated to too soft for me. The twin speakers right next to his ears, had a paradoxical effect.. he had to play softer, because he heard himself TOO well, you could say.

Perhaps ( I am asking for input ) if he had raised them off the floor, I could hear him better, and he would have to turn up a tad BECAUSE he had speaker in air.... OR maybe a third or fourth speaker?

Speaker placement seems to be critical to playing gigs, huh?

 

Here's my two cents. If it's just the two of you, there really isn't a need to run that Nord in stereo. Maybe he wants the vibe of playing an acoustic piano, but IDK. What I would do is split the mono signal with a small mixer, then one speaker facing him, one facing you, so you guys are able to hear each other. If he still wants a stereo sound after all that, my verdict--sell the Nord and get a P250/CP300 w/ built-in speakers, and send you a monitor feed.

[Skinny]

nevermind