Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Dave Ferris, mentioned this on another thread so I might as well post it here separately. 'Solar - Excerpt (Piano Section Only)' Live on Nord Piano 88 - Using 'Studio Grand 2' Samplehttp://www.box.com/s/9iqm2luach71e13dtrkp This is a recording of my second time using the Nord Piano in a gig. I'm running it mono through a single EV ZXA1, and passing it through a Allen & Heath ZED-10FX. Prior to this axe, I was using a Roland FP7F and I just had this extremely thin sound in the mix. And then I get too energetic with trying to play against a loud bass, drums, and horns, and I start getting harsh metallic sounds from the Roland SN pianos and it just made me cringe. I went through a cycle of purchases to make it sound better including first getting the EV ZXA1 powered cab and then the Allen & Heath ZED 10FX to possibly warm up the piano a little. It didn't do much good. Then I got the Nord and the recordings are night and day from before. This projected well against the other instruments I thought. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 coming through nicely, sits in there, full sounding piano, would you say the EV helps too as I'm looking into those in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 The EV is really sounding good. But I can only compare it to my prior PA which was a Yamaha Stagepas 300. I thought the Stagepas was boomy in comparison and nowhere near as loud. With the pre-amp on the Mixer, and maxed volume on the EV, I never got past 11 o'clock on my master volume. So I had a lot of reserve. The room I was playing in was quite big but really dry. Carpeted and acoustic tiles. I thought it wasn't a bad volume at all for an inexpensive cab (compared to the QSC). BTW the Bass player is using a QSC 10. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhodaway10 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Jazzwee, how does the Ev's sound if you don't use a mixer? www.brianho.net http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/brianho www.youtube.com/brianhojazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 the EV interests me for front of house too in a solo / duo set up to support my privia, synth and any midifiles if I use them in solo work with its importance on vocal reproduction I will ask the guitarist to supply a sub if he wants to as I figure it will need that for more demanding situations. I'm assuming you are happy with it for your keyboard reproductions [as others have mentioned], have you used it in vocal applications? the nord sounds good, have you compared it to Late model privias for such recordings, I only ask this as I thought you used to have an early privia, perhaps you have compared I am surprised the Roland sounded thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I bought the EV for primarily solo piano gigs but also plan to use it as a keys/vocal monitor in band situations. I did a church gig last night and I used the EV as a small convenient foldback for everyone in what was a very tight space. The guitarist (an established songwriter and recording studio owner) and I were the first to arrive for set-up. As soon as I put his Yamaha acoustic through the monitor, his exact words were - "whoa, nice!" I hadn't told him anything about the ZXA-1 before that but he was utterly knocked out with the sound. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I use my ZXA1-90B in the rehearsing space. The first time the singer/guitarist heard it he asked if I had a new piano sample in my NS2 - then he just started laughing because he thought it sounded ridiculously good! Nord and EV ZXA1's is a perfect marriage! I also recently bought a TC VocaLive Touch, so now I am the backup singers as well. At rehearsal yesterday, we were playing quite loud, with only keys and my voice / VocalLive through the EV's. It sounded nothing but great - clear even at loud levels. As a mixer I am running a Yamaha MG82cx. One thing to be aware of - at softer levels (like the level of an acoustic upright) the noise floor from the EV's might be issue. No matter how you set the output volume (of the EV:s) there is some noise present. I always use earplugs when rehearsing, and with them plugged in I hardly hear the noise. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 BTW the Bass player is using a QSC 10. How is this set up? Direct? The Nord sounds good, BTW. So do you! "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I start getting harsh metallic sounds from the Roland SN pianos and it just made me cringe. That was my one of my complaints in a brief SN experience, it did not sound natural when you laid into it. A real piano does not change timbre as much between quiet and loud as the SN pianos do. But at least some of those Roland boards have a good deal of tweakability to them, so I was thinking maybe that could be tamed. I thought it wasn't a bad volume at all for an inexpensive cab (compared to the QSC). BTW the Bass player is using a QSC 10. Ah, so you might have a chance to A/B them some time. I only got to hear the EV against the K8, never the K10. I actually found the EV to have more bass as well as more natural sound (at the expense of maximum volume), but the EV went loud enough for me and I really preferred especially the piano sound through it. The K10 goes even louder than the K8, and I've assumed that the bass would exceed that of the EV as well... and it sure sounds that way if your bassist is using it! When I'm doing LH bass at a gig that requires some real "bass guitar" presence, I run my bass patch separately to a small Markbass bass amp, works great. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 AnotherScott, on SN Pianos - it wasn't a tameable characteristic. It sounds fine when playing solo piano though the thinness is characteristic of the Roland sound. It can sound good with dense chords and such. But it's hard to get energized when playing single note lines when you want to get that full sustain on every note. The only tweak was to set the touch weight to the heaviest setting but the timbre of the sound changed and lost its bite too. Either their "modelling" of the dynamics is flawed or they sampled a particularly harsh piano. My Grand is voiced so that it never gets harsh even at FFF. The Nord never gets harsh either so it sounds like a better voiced piano. I'll plug into my bass players QSC K10 on my next gig to try it out. I never thought to try it out and see if I can A/B it. I've never A/B'd it without the mixer however. I'll do it today and report back. I basically just set it up and never touch it again till I pack it up for a gig and try not to change anything (including EQ settings on the Mixer). Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 mr Tobbe, I have another recording here at the same gig. This one is solo piano. I have a pianist playing before the Band's set. I was using him as a test and I would walk at the far end of the room to see how it sounded as acoustic. I had to say that through the EV, it sounded very real. Especially when I was further away. The recorder is right in front of the speakers and I didn't notice any speaker noise. http://www.box.com/s/qtmftatbduspbaqh6teu BTW - I do get speaker noise and that's why I went with XLR cables from the mixer. That I recall was one of the issues when I plugged in direct from the Nord. There's a sensitivity to noise here that I never got on the Roland. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I haven't had a chance to listen to these clips yet, but to add to the discussion of Roland's piano sounds, it's my understanding that they sample multiple pianos and blend them together to create a Frankenpiano (as I've heard it described). I don't like that approach at all. I also don't like the metallic overtones of the SN pianos, nor what seems to be a slight chorus effect inherent to the sound. I don't hear these characteristics in the V-Piano, however, which is fully modeled. The V-Piano is really a big step up from all the other piano sounds Roland offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have a recording in the same venue with the Roland FP7F and it just grates on me to even listen to it. It's what caused me to just suddenly order the Nord Piano without even going back to a store to try it out. I would bet though that if someone played solo piano and didn't have to compete with other louder instruments that this won't even come up and the Roland SN's would sound good. It's probably just me. From the energy of a live performance I must be pounding the keys harder and bringing out the harser overtones. Still, such overtones are suggestive of a piano that's not voiced optimally. It could be that these overtones are just "modeled" too. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 BTW the Bass player is using a QSC 10. How is this set up? Direct? The Nord sounds good, BTW. So do you! Joe, thanks! It's always risky posting actual performances among such high quality players here So I appreciate it. As you know, I'm just a lowly jazz student. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Why not use a pair of EV powered speakers for stereo? That would be more realistic sounding. You could skip the mixer. I use a pair of EV SXA360 powered speakers ($999 each) both with and without a Mackie mixer. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 350 of Harry's jazz piano arrangements of standards, for educational purposes, and tutoring at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I could but obviously I don't want any extra weight (and cost). As it is, I have to carry an extra PA pair plus mic stands for the vocalist. The question is, does it sound bad as is with a single EV running mono? That would of course influence a decision. I did budget to eventually get two EV's since I may need more power some day. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Jazzwee, Take that reverb off your piano! It doesn't sound live at all, it sounds like it is from an entirely different acoustic environment than the rest of the live band. It sounds like it's in a cathedral. Jazz+ Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 350 of Harry's jazz piano arrangements of standards, for educational purposes, and tutoring at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Jazz+, Here's my thought on that. The venue is extremely dry. Carpeted floors with acoustic tiles in a fairly large room. So the recording may have unrealistic sounding reverb since the recorder was close to the speaker, but from other parts of the room, the reverb actually sounded realistic. Still I had too much reverb on but that'll be trial and error next time. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just tried it without the mixer. Other than for the slightly lowered volume due to lack of a pre-amp, I didn't notice anything different in the sound. No cable noise either (1/4" to XLR). I would have expected the Allen & Heath to warm up the tone a bit as Dave Ferris said. But the Nord tone is already warm so I guess for the size venue I'm doing, I can probably skip bringing it with me. Good. Less weight and cables. I guess this depends on the board. I originally bought the new mixer because the output on the Roland FP7F was not hot enough and I needed a pre-amp aside from attempting to thicken the sound a little bit. But it looks like it's not necessary here for my typical gig. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ferris Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 My CP5 sounds WAY better with the A& H ZED then going direct (xlr) . My RCF speakers don't have 1/4" inputs, so I can't run the Nord direct. Also I have no experience with the ZXA1. And putting a mixer in the chain did sound better then direct when I was using the EV SXA360s.... Basically I like the A&H sound.... https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, P-515, CP88, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just listened to both clips. I think it sounds pretty good, if a little mid-rangey. Are you using the stereo or mono version of the SG2 sample? A bit of EQ'ing and dialing back the reverb and I think you're set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 You have better ears, Dave, so give the Nord a try with and without the A&H... The thing is the Nord has so much control already on the warmth with the EQ controls so perhaps it's redundant. I'm amazed about the sound alteration on the Nord particularly with the on-board "Mid" controls. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just listened to both clips. I think it sounds pretty good, if a little mid-rangey. Are you using the stereo or mono version of the SG2 sample? A bit of EQ'ing and dialing back the reverb and I think you're set. I'm using Mono (switched 'Mono' on the board), although the mixer sums it up to mono anyway. Is that an actual separate Mono sample? I'm still a little confused with the interface so that when switching sounds, I have this ever changing EQ and reverb setting. I thought some of this gets locked in when in Live Mode. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 BTW - D-Bon, you changed Donuts on me Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm using Mono (switched 'Mono' on the board), although the mixer sums it up to mono anyway. Is that an actual separate Mono sample? That's what I meant, that you've activated the Mono button. BTW - D-Bon, you changed Donuts on me Yep. This one's a jelly from a local bakery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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