Forming Jazz/Standards Trio - SCARY

[Jason Stanfield]

The guitar player in my band approached me last week with an offer to play piano for a jazz trio - he'll play upright bass, and a mutual (female) friend of ours will be singing.

 

I've never been in a group this small before. Given the instrumentation, I realize how much I'll have to fill in, plus most soloing will be on me, and I'm not a good solo player! Plus, I'm going to have to do a lot of left hand woodshedding; in rock, you can get away with octaves-on-the-root playing, but not so much in a jazz trio, especially when the solo comes around.

 

I'm definitely up for the challenge, though, and I learn quick being tossed in the deep end. We won't be doing terribly tough jazz standards only - probably some Norah Jones and other singer-songwriter stuff that suits our singer.

 

Anyone else done something like this? Anything I should keep in mind as we work up songs?

[James Fry]

Get some nice sounding left hand voicings sorted - learn some nice maj7th/9th shapes, 13th shape etc. Keep your solos clean and simple, and don't be afraid to repeat notes and ideas - play a short idea (5 or 6 notes) and then repeat the basic pattern but knock start note down a third say (and adjust to fit the chords).

 

If you learn a few basic sequences and the chord shapes you can easily start to pad out your repertoire - eg I Got Rhythm is the basis for dozens of tunes (and parts of the chord changes and patterns you can play over the top form the fundamentals of many others).

 

[CEB]

Solos are way overrated. If you play nice chords it will all be good. Don't worry about playing a lot of notes.

 

When I first got into Jazz one of the first things the struck me was how less is more on many chord voicings. It isn't all notes as much as how you just spread them out differently than you would in Rock 'n' Roll or blues. Especially if you are doing vocal Jazz the lighter voicings can let the singer shine through.

[nickd]

Spend some time working with the bass player on getting a good feel and groove going - it won't necessarily happen automatically.

 

And it can be easier than you think to play solos, as the volume will be low and you don't need to play lots of notes to cut through - simple melodies over the chords usually sound great.

[marino]

This particular lineup (voice, bass, piano) is not the easiest to handle. You'll have to keep good rhythm, but considering that the the bass will walk in four most of the time, you'll also add syncopes and little melodic figures, to add variety. And root octaves are *strictly* forbidden!

 

Probably, you will be asked to change the keys of some songs. This is a good exercise regardless, especially with jazz standards, which are usually more complex harmonically than rock songs. (Side note; I can't understand why Norah Jones, who I like quite a bit, is cosidered a jazz artist... never mind. )

 

You'll have to work out some interesting chord voicings, to be the glue between the bass and the singer. This search is endless... but studying some books, like Dan Hearle's "Jazz-Rock Voicings", won't hurt.

 

Soloing... If you're used to rock, you will learn to be less percussive in your approach, and more melodic-oriented. Try to think a good variety od rhythmic figures, don't always end your phrases on the tonic or fifth of the scale, and try to differentiate the 'episodes' of your solo by changing register on the keyboard, note density, rhythmic tension, etc.

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

[CEB]

.... And root octaves are *strictly* forbidden!

...

When I started playing some Jazz gigs in in the 80's this is something the experienced Jazz bassist I was playing with was quick to inform me on. LOL.

[orangefunk]

Great topic! I´ve only done this a few times but I can only learn more from the comments stated so far. I think the comment implying soloing with chords (the chords themselves, the notes in the chord, some little fills) is something I tend to do in these situations not being a strong soloist with lots of lines..

[Adan]

Thi And root octaves are *strictly* forbidden!

 

I've often hear this. Just curious why this is an absolute rule. In my quartet, I will play root octaves now and then, always on the 1 if I do. I figure the bass player is probably playing either the root or a chord tone on the one, so it won't clash.

 

At first, I was doing this mostly because I had difficulty changing my rock/funk playing style. But I kept it up because it seemed effective, at least when done in moderation. The bassist doesn't love it when I do this, but it does add noticeably to the groove. I'm watching the audience and I can see how the sound becomes more propulsive when I'm hitting "1 on 1."

 

I've always been aware that I'm committing a sin, but how bad is it? How much time will I spend in purgatory?

[Bob L]

Drill like crazy on rootless voicings in all keys for II V I's as they are the bedrock of most Jazz standards. Also research some comping strategies for the types of tunes you will play (bossa nova's for example). The audience will focus more on the singer so don't be too freaked out. Solos don't have to be Oscar Peterson style to be melodic and enjoyable.

[Michelle ggurl]

The rules are there to make the added freedom you have -- harmonically, melodically, soloing wise -- more manageable. When you are comfortable in the genre and developing your own voice, you find ways to break the rules and "sell it" so that it's acceptable. Lol. At least that's my take on it. And it won't be acceptable to everyone but no matter what you do, none of it will please everybody. The dirty little secret is that the same thing is true of any genre anyway.

 

I break every rule described here on a regular basis. Whether it is esthetically pleasing or not is in the ear of the beholder. So that is more an answer to your question, Adan. But Jason, I think you've got a lot of good tips for starters.

 

And Carlo, I agree, Norah doesn't seem like jazz to me. That always puzzled me too.

[marino]

Adan - what you're doing is perfectly acceptable, as long it's not too often. *One* occasional bass octave will anchor the sound, especially if you are playing with drums too. I think the OP meant playing them as a style, in a continuous fashion, as you do in rock.

 

 

[marino]

I break every rule described here on a regular basis. Whether it is esthetically pleasing or not is in the ear of the beholder. So that is more an answer to your question, Adan. But Jason, I think you've got a lot of good tips for starters.

Absolutely.

 

 

[Nillerbabs]

Adan: I was going to say something fancy about slamming LH octaves, when Marino took the words right out of my mouth. Instead, I'm going to give you this to listen to.

 

[video:youtube]

McCoy does get a little LH heavy sometimes, but this is the best example I could come up with at the top of my head.

[CEB]

Bassist don't seem to like octave roots because in interferes with their tonal mojo.

[Dave Ferris]

Follow your instincts.

[David Loving]

listen to her piano player:

 

 

Consider going to You-tube and listening to similar examples and emulate them - nothing too fancy. Your job is to keep the beat, make the singer sound good and sell the song.

[SK]

The better each of you becomes, the stronger the trio, so the better pianist you become, the more the trio benefits.

 

Listen to singers and their pianists in the style of the music you will do.

 

You'll have very separate musical roles - at any point, you'll be playing the supportive role of accompanist, or as a piano bass duo, or solo pianist. These roles require different hats, but there's always something to learn with each of them.

 

generic post #3,000 or so

 

 

[Dave Ferris]

generic post #3,000 or so

 

98% of mine fall into that category. I'd actually like to find a way to lose about 2900 of 'em...

[Jazz+]

Aren't those low root based shells (1-5, 1-7, 1-8?) that Horace Silver slaps as loud accents with his left hand on swing tunes like "Strollin" and "Opus De Funk"?

[Musicale]

yeah the potential conflict with the bass will be the stumbling block. I would probably work a few weeks with him to see if you are compatible and can get in the groove, otherwise it won't be satisfying.

 

On the other hand I checked out a recent ad for trio with me playing organ and bass all the time. I did not try out because I was afraid that with the bass lines walking all the time it would sound too samey...

 

Anyway good luck !!

 

Musicale

[ProfD]

IMO, dropping the label "Jazz" minimizes the stress/scare factor. Then, proceed to build a repertoire of songs from any genre/style that work within the skillset and configuration of the band.

[stillplaying]

Just want to say good luck.

 

I'd like you to post back if you're still doing it in a few months and tell us how it all worked out.

[solpincus]

Root octaves are ok when used as : a stabbing lower punctuation at the end of a turna-round, usually the 5th of the tonic chord, & on the last 8th of the bar at the end of section, or at the end of a melodic phrase. Oscar, & other swingers did this all the time, both in solo piano, as well as group playig (with a bassist.)

left hand octaves are also ok during an ensemble part, such as when the entire rythm section is supporting the horns, particularly in stepwise paralell sus4 chords (like Freddie Hubbard's INTREPID FOX , or RED CLAY)

MC cOY TYNER often used to set down the left hand bass lines in octaves (usually identical with the bassist) during head arragements. BROKEN octaves, (like boogie woogie, for example) can really mess up a bass player's time & phrasing (UNLESS it is a WRITTEN part of the arrangement.

[solpincus]

during solos, you could substitute percussive chord voicings ( like the brass section of a Big Band) for single line 'bop' phrases. also, being familiar with the tune, you could work out ahead of time, lines that derive from the melody.(even sing along with them, a la vocalese, with the vocalist.