kurzweil pianos

[Dana.]

That little half rack box Yamaha made years ago? That thing sounded really good.

Yep. They go for cheap on eBay, too, usually $100 to $125. It has mono versions of the pianos (admittedly, not as good as the stereo versions), a pretty good CP80, a Rhodes, a pretty good Wurli, a DX, and a Clav.

[Ken Beaumont]

How about putting the Privia on bottom and the SP4-7 on top? I think you should be able to trigger the Kurzweil piano sound from the Privia while triggering the Kurzweils KB3 organ sounds from its own keyboard, even panning each sound to one side, so that you have essentially separate piano and organ outputs out of the SP4. I used an M-Audio UC-33e to basically give the SP4-7 drawbars, that worked fine.

 

I have done that, except for the UC-33e for draw bars. I was contemplating purchasing a Voce V5+ as an option too.

[richwhite9]

A year or so ago there was a video of 5 different stage pianos being played by name musicians at some show. They took turns on one song. The surprise here was the Kurzweil. The low end and the rest cut through and made a couple others sound wimpy in comparison.

 

There's a moral there somewhere like "No accounting for taste" or "rigged" or we all have different ears or "Triple Strike Strikes" again.

[BigJPatton]

I'm a very happy PC3 owner, but the pianos are not great, my Casio PX-3 blows it out of the water in that department, they do sit in the mix well but that's not always enough IMO, and a good amp/monitor/PA with some EQ helps for sure, but even then it's not what I would call a great acoustic piano sound, certainly not bad and perfectly usable though.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

How much do these haters gig? Heck today it is all pretty much good compare to what we used to play with.

 

Gear is overated.

Yup, we're spoiled!

 

The Yamaha DX-7 was never a good piano sound.

Listen to the man, he knows whereof he speaks.

 

I haven't had a chance to play a Kurz, but Tom's sounds great when he plays it!

[JeffLearman]

A year or so ago there was a video of 5 different stage pianos being played by name musicians at some show. They took turns on one song. The surprise here was the Kurzweil. The low end and the rest cut through and made a couple others sound wimpy in comparison.

 

There's a moral there somewhere like "No accounting for taste" or "rigged" or we all have different ears or "Triple Strike Strikes" again.

Right, but the other pianos in that video were all pretty old by today's standards. I'd like to see it again, using today's best.

[drawback]

I'm a recent Kurzweil Konvert, having got an SP4-7 last year. The newest downloadable pianos are quite simply, great. I've started to use it as my go-to gig piano. Although it still feels like a toy, the velocity tweaks make the keyboard bearable to play.

 

I still prefer my Yamaha P90's action over anything other than a CP300.

 

 

[MikeT156]

by ITGITC:

 

No.

 

The Yamaha DX-7 was never a good piano sound.

 

Agreed. I didn't care for the DX7 "Rhodes" sound either, but apparently a lot of other players DID, and beat it to death on 80's recordings that I still hear on the radio more often than I'd like. Solution? Turn the radio off.

 

Now that I think of it, I really never liked the DX7 at all. I'm glad that its only a conversation piece now.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Mike T.

[Moonglow]

I've never had a chance to play the S90ES, but I've liked recordings I've heard of its S700 sound. I wish it were possible to get it in something more portable, whether a Motif Rack variation.....

+1

 

I'm hoping for an XF-Rack at NAMM, but I don't think it's gonna happen....

[allan_evett]

Very similar to how Yamaha, with their earlier renditions of AWM, smoked the much higher GB software pianos for live performance

+1

 

Allan, I think we've agreed on this before when discussing the P50-m module: that AWM sound cuts through a rock mix with ease. I'm pretty sure Yamaha has included an improved version of it in most, if not all, of their digital pianos up to the CP300 (for the stage line) and the P95 (home line).

 

I used to use a P85 for hospice work back in NW Indiana; the built in speakers were just right for the hospital size rooms. Currently two of my students have P85's, and like their pianos a lot. Yamaha has gotten a lot of mileage from that improved AWM sound generator.

Also have a few students with PX-130's and PX-330's; those Privias are very popular too. From what I understand, the Privia is based on a Steinway sample; so there's a distinct difference in sound there.

Still have my P50-m. Last time I took it out I played it from a Privia PX-3. That's kind of a 'best of all worlds' super lightweight "88" rig.

 

 

[Moonglow]

I think it's a mix versus solo issue for most folks. I'm not wild about it for playing subtle solo pieces, but it is nice and punchy for many other contexts.

 

This.

That.

 

Certainly not the best for solo piano (although it was fine for a semi-recent cocktail gig), and difficult to make sound good in a monitor, but great in a FOH mix. It's uncanny how they've come across the right set of frequencies for this purpose. The good news for triple-strike fans is that the PC-3 features the Kurz pianos at their finest. Horowitz (#4) is my go-to piano....clairity at the top, with some serious thunder down low.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Duh, what hate?

Was that directed at me? I never once used the word hate in my response. I actually have the PC3 pianos sounding to my liking ...

 

Not directed toward you at all, Dave. Coolio's very first post in the thread started with a question about "hate" for the Kurzweil pianos.

 

[ABECK]

 

The Yamaha DX-7 was never a good piano sound.

The sales guy said it was.

 

[ADino]

Since I moved to south Florida, the groups Ive seen so far, all Kurtz's. Durn things are everywhere. I like the sp4-8. When I lived up north, I would only see a Kurtz on occasion. Up thar was all Yam/Rolands.

[Michelle ggurl]

OK, here are some samples of the demo I recently recorded. As I said before, this isn't me at my best. I made the mistake of doing ALL practicing and playing for like 5 days prior to this session on an acoustic piano ... I didn't really start to feel connected to the Kurzweil till the end of the session. Yeah, I know, my bad, but that's how it played out. Plenty of slop in these takes, but you guys are my friends, right? Just listen for another perspective on the sound of the PC2, not so much for the sloppy performance. I really need to get back in there to clean up my parts ...

 

Michelle's winter clambake

 

[johnchop]

To clarify:

 

Kurtz

 

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/12/91032608_d0a222ab29.jpg

 

Kurz:

 

http://singularityhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/kurzweil-xprize-bci1.jpg

 

 

[CEB]

 

The Yamaha DX-7 was never a good piano sound.

The sales guy said it was.

 

But it sounds really nice on The Wind Beneath My Wings.

[Dana.]

Michelle's winter clambake

This might be the best I've ever heard the Triple Strike, and I think it proves the sound is much more convincing when playing chords than single notes.

[MikeT156]

by D-Bon:

 

This might be the best I've ever heard the Triple Strike, and I think it proves the sound is much more convincing when playing chords than single notes.

 

Thanks for that Dana, those are great demos to prove your point! Chords do sound convincing on those demos.

 

Most of the KB players that have expressed their dissatisfaction with whatever KB they are using for piano sounds have mentioned that what they were using didn't work well in a certain context, like playing in a loud band with guitar players.

 

Obviously, the nuances of an acoustic piano becomes more critical when the musician and the audience can actually hear it.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

[ITGITC]

Michelle's winter clambake

 

Nice, Michelle.

 

I really enjoyed that.

 

Tom

 

[Al Coda]

Nice, Michelle.

 

I really enjoyed that.

 

Tom

 

Me too ! Great music,- and I like the Kurz pianos,- I always liked.

 

A.C.

[Dave Ferris]

OK, here are some samples of the demo I recently recorded. As I said before, this isn't me at my best. I made the mistake of doing ALL practicing and playing for like 5 days prior to this session on an acoustic piano ... I didn't really start to feel connected to the Kurzweil till the end of the session. Yeah, I know, my bad, but that's how it played out. Plenty of slop in these takes, but you guys are my friends, right? Just listen for another perspective on the sound of the PC2, not so much for the sloppy performance. I really need to get back in there to clean up my parts ...

 

Michelle's winter clambake

 

Fine playing Michelle ! Some tricky sections on that Hot House one, well handled, on a non-weighted board (?) no less. Good, solid comping on New Beginning.

 

I like the sound of the piano, it has a nice tone and is thick sounding for a keyboard.

[ADino]

Excellent Michelle, enjoyed it, like the sound also.

[Michelle ggurl]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your kind words! On the playing especially, I don't attach too much ownership to the sound of the pianer.

 

Yes, Dave, this is on the unweighted board. But at this point I think it's the only semi/un weighted board I could do this sort of thing on, because I'm very used to it by now having owned this as my primary gigging board since 2003 or so. And I had said before in this post that it's not a fatiguing action, and for the most part that's true ... but at the end of the night, I am fighting it a bit. Doesn't result in pain, but it becomes a challenge. Also another thing I notice with the PC2 -- don't know if this is true for the PC2X -- that the left hand dynamics seem really pronounced. I have to play more gingerly with the left so it doesn't sound overpowering, like I have dynamics issues in my technique. I am radically aware of this when I switch to/from acoustic piano within a short timeframe. I think I noticed a bit of that in the clip Dave posted of the singer and pianist -- a more delicate treatment of the left hand in voicings, and I wonder if that is something the player did either consciously or subconsciously, or if that isn't an issue on the PC2X and I'm just sensitized to it and imagining it.

 

FYI, for the sound itself, here's what goes into it: It's the default Kurz piano, Stereo Grand. I eliminate reverb by pulling down the A and B sliders -- I don't actually disable the effects, and there may be a difference in what that would do to the sound -- and then of course I let the engineer add his reverb on in the mix. Also, I've discovered that if you press the "solo" button on the front panel, it seems to focus the sound a bit better that just having the Main layer the only active layer and lit up green. As for EQ the engineer did, I have no idea but I can check what DSP he did to it and get back to you if you are interested (he's my main bass player, but said he only wanted to engineer this and have me use my sub guy because engineering and playing at the same time is a PITA).

 

Additional info: Today I did go to Dave Pierce's house to check out the PC1SE. It's a very nice feel; I didn't notice the left-hand dominance tendency on that so much, so the weighting must be helpful in what I have been conditioned to do on an acoustic, even though it's not graded. I ended up not buying it tho because we weighed it (weighed me + board -- that number is our little secret OK Dave? LOL) and it clocked in at 45 to 46 lbs. Ouch. I can carry that, but it's the dead lift from a case in sometimes tight quarters when setting up, or hefting it into the car at the end of the night that make that weight unmanageable for me. And by the way, that "solo" button trick on the PC1 had the same effect on the sound on his PC1 as it does on the PC2.

 

Another thing unexpected came out of that visit today: I am now GASsing for a Nord Stage 2. Dave, Dave, Dave ... he suggested perhaps I get Audrey to talk my husband into buying me that board, like she did for Dave, LOL. Anywho ... when I played the Stage 2 in the store I was completely unimpressed. But you know how stores are. In the comfort of a friend's home (and getting his knowledge for quicker fixes) I was able to locate and play with the Nord's on board reverb. When I did that -- I believe it was "room 2" or something, very low setting -- it seemed to compensate for that plasticky, what others call "harpsichordy" sound of Nord's pianos and it became quite musical to play. That's a lot of scratch, though. Still, quite a fun board. So I would consider that, but even so, with the controller power the PC2 has, at this point I don't think I'll ever give it up.

[AnotherScott]

I did go to Dave Pierce's house to check out the PC1SE. It's a very nice feel; ... it clocked in at 45 to 46 lbs. Ouch. I can carry that, but it's the dead lift from a case in sometimes tight quarters when setting up, or hefting it into the car at the end of the night that make that weight unmanageable for me. ...

Another thing unexpected came out of that visit today: I am now GASsing for a Nord Stage 2.

 

One nice thing about the NS2 is that the feel is similar to the PC1SE, but only weighs about as much as the PC2. And if you'd only be using it for piano, you could even get the Nord Piano and get the full 88 keys and still be under 40 lbs. For piano alone, I think the action of the NP is slightly better than the action of the NS2, from my brief comparison.

 

As for the piano sounds, honestly, I never liked any of the Nord grands until they came out with the Bosendorfer sample. Until then, I'd probably have suggested sticking with the Kurzweil. But Nord has definitely upped the ante lately. I'll be curious to see whether the new Kurzweil board supposedly to be announce at NAMM actually has the long awaited updated piano samples. Even now, though, I still like Kurzweil's EPs better than Nord's.

[Dave Ferris]

One nice thing about the NS2 is that the feel is similar to the PC1SE, but only weighs about as much as the PC2. And if you'd only be using it for piano, you could even get the Nord Piano and get the full 88 keys and still be under 40 lbs. For piano alone, I think the action of the NP is slightly better than the action of the NS2, from my brief comparison.

 

As for the piano sounds, honestly, I never liked any of the Nord grands until they came out with the Bosendorfer sample. Until then, I'd probably have suggested sticking with the Kurzweil. But Nord has definitely upped the ante lately. I'll be curious to see whether the new Kurzweil board supposedly to be announce at NAMM actually has the long awaited updated piano samples. Even now, though, I still like Kurzweil's EPs better than Nord's.

 

NP 88 is better for piano and under 2K too. This my second go around with the NP and they have definitely improved things with the Bosie and Yamaha Bright Grand.

 

The thing I've found with the NP, it's a different animal live through good speakers. Before, it always recorded fairly well but live, the sound was harpsichordy and just plain weird sounding. Now between the new samples and the long release feature- no Couperin thing going on.

 

I still don't find it all that inspiring to play solo piano on (hey it's a keyboard) but with the bass and drums it works well for Jazz. It's clearer, in all registers, then my CP5. Good speakers are imperative, can't be using a Roland keyboard amp and expect good results.

 

Where on the other hand, my friend Robin, who was the player in that clip I posted, uses a Roland amp for his PC2X, the 500 I think it is. He's perfectly happy...so go figure.

[Michelle ggurl]

Yeah, I know the NP and even Electro HP are options, so I just don't know. One thing I realize is, I am not comfortable buying keyboards without trying them anymore at all. I did that with the PC2 and lucked out; did it with the FP-4 and met with keen disappointment. (not that it's a bad board, as I've said before I actually love it, but it hurts me to play it).

 

One thing I realize after owning the FP and the pc2, and trying out Dave's boards is, I actually think I don't WANT 88 keys. I can get by fine with 76 and its easier to schlep and set up. I like the idea of having the synth engine in the Stage (and I assume organ? Huh, I just realized I didn't even bother checking that out) because I was having big fun with it even in just the short time I had with it. Also, the Stages action is definitely lighter than the PC1SE's -- we had them set up side by side -- and was actually a bit more comfortable to play. I'd really have to sit with an NP or E3 HP and try to determine if I'd feel comfy with it long-term.

 

Right about now I'm regretting the decision to not go to NAMM this year. But I suppose it will all work out.

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, I know the NP and even Electro HP are options, so I just don't know. One thing I realize is, I am not comfortable buying keyboards without trying them anymore at all. I did that with the PC2 and lucked out; did it with the FP-4 and met with keen disappointment. (not that it's a bad board, as I've said before I actually love it, but it hurts me to play it).

...

I like the idea of having the synth engine in the Stage (and I assume organ? Huh, I just realized I didn't even bother checking that out) because I was having big fun with it even in just the short time I had with it. Also, the Stages action is definitely lighter than the PC1SE's

The thing about trying an action before buying is that, despite the obvious advantage, it wouldn't have solved your FP-4 problem since the problem didn't surface until you really played it a while. That's the benefit of a good online dealer. I like samedaymusic because they have a 60 day return policy. And at least when I last had to use it, you only had to pay the return shipping (the oft-recommended Sweetwater is only 30-day plus, even if you got free shipping, they will deduct their out-going shipping fee from your refund).

 

Yes, the Stage has a great organ section.

 

Based on playing other boards with the same underlying action, the Electro HP action is a bit heavier feeling (more sluggish) than the NS2, NP, or PC1SE. The NP may feel a touch lighter than the NS2, but isn't available with fewer than 88 keys. That combined with the fun of the synth/organ sections makes me thing that the NS2-76 would be ideal for you.

 

 

[drawback]

Based on playing other boards with the same underlying action, the Electro HP action is a bit heavier feeling (more sluggish) than the NS2, NP, or PC1SE. The NP may feel a touch lighter than the NS2, but isn't available with fewer than 88 keys. That combined with the fun of the synth/organ sections makes me thing that the NS2-76 would be ideal for you.

 

 

I've A/B/C'd them and based on your criteria, agree.

 

 

 

 

[Michelle ggurl]

It's the perfect choice because I have expensive tastes.

 

You know what sucks? I thought I bought from a very accommodating online dealer with the FP. B&H photo video. But by the time I realized I had serious problems and spent time trying to recover from them I was past their return window. I could still have returned it with a restocking fee, which means now I'm better off reselling used. And I also forgot that I had tried the rd300 in stores extensively before making my decision. So yeah, I guess there's not much more I could have done.