Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Marketing wise, if you don't have to move it (as in a church), why would you pay over $3000 for it if you can get a good classic Hammond for the same price (or less)? Well, you have to be aware that this is only true in the US. In Sweden and I guess in many other European countries, you won't find a B3, C3 or A100 for less than $7000 - and that can be without a Leslie! Sad but true. For $3000 & I'd say you're very lucky to even find a E100 over here. Yeah... Understand that. We are lucky in the US where you can find good A100's for $1000! Add a good Leslie and you are still at around $2000. For churches that seldon move their organs, the classic Hammond still makes a lot of sense. You lucky bastards! That's my dream - finding a full size Hammond with a wooden Leslie for a ridiculous price! Actually, ten years ago a friend scored a A100 with 122 or 147 from some guy in Great Britain for about $3500, but it smelled like cow dropping for a year or so, after being left in a barn for the last decade or so. That's the best deal I've heard any Swede make. There was also a store in Stockholm who for a long time had a mint 1935 Model A for about $3000, also ten years ago - and it took a long time before they got it sold(?). At the time I was a poor student, living in a small room.. I almost cried when I realized I didn't even have enough money to buy the cool Roland VK9 clonewheel (late 70's 2 manual and full pedal clonewheel) from the same store. Some time later I at least could score a collapsable WLM Hit 2 manual organ for $150. Ah, those where the days... Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My biggest hope about the C2D is that they finally managed to produce a Leslie sim that doesn't sound like it's run through a compressor set to 10:1 - and that after a while that rotary model will make it's way to the Stage 2. After getting the Ventilator I can't stand the Nord Leslie sim anymore. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My initial impression is that it looks like the old Farfisa Professional models of he mid 70's. . I owned one of the single manuals. No, the Pro Duo was an unwieldy thing with the two rows of toggles for Flutes, Percussion and Reeds. It always seemed like it would be sharper to have a toggle for the 3 sections instead of repeating rows. On the surface I think the C2D is one of the dunbest designs I've seen. Right up there with the Farfisa Pro Duo. All those small buttons above the drawfudders. yeech. If it was Project Runway I think the Nord would be Out. Heidi Klum would never be seen wearing one. http://www.combo-organ.com/Farfisa/Professional/Professional_Duo_15b_small.jpg http://lh3.ggpht.com/-lLo0kzY7X4c/TxUgO5xqxeI/AAAAAAAADls/MA19YMDGobU/s800/Nord-C2D-Top-thumb.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/01/17/nord-intros-c2d-drawbar-organ/#more-37714 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If it is what it looks like then it doesn't really have much in common with an SK2 .... except having 2 manuals. In basic functionality it would be Hammond's one-set-of-drawbars-plus-other-sounds vs. Nord's four-sets-of-drawbars-but-organs-only. In the lightweight dual-manual category, I think Nord has come from behind to overtake Hammond here for the purist. But it would be very cool if Nord built in a way for presets to include MIDI Program Change commands, so one could create, for example, lower manual presets that called up a sound on an external module. (By using an organ registration of 000000000, that could easily be used to switch completely to an external sound for the equivalent of "extra voices" from one's module of choice.) Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 One of the features from the blurb: "The upper manual and panel has been tilted for better ergonomics." I'll be interested to see how many Hammond purists consider this a drawback. "Not only do the knobs I push and pull to change the harmonics have to be attached to the end of a stick, but they also have to move on a plane exactly parallel to the keys!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 "The upper manual and panel has been tilted for better ergonomics." This is brilliant. And since there's no space to set your drink anyway, nothing is sacrificed. Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 One of the features from the blurb: "The upper manual and panel has been tilted for better ergonomics." I'll be interested to see how many Hammond purists consider this a drawback. "Not only do the knobs I push and pull to change the harmonics have to be attached to the end of a stick, but they also have to move on a plane exactly parallel to the keys!" I'm not a purist but I play Hammond. Ergonomicaly I do not think it is an issue. But vision-wise there could be an issue that makes what Nord is doing the right thing. The flat plane on a Hammond works well because of where you are usually seated in relation to the controls on a Hammond console. You are always looking down on a Hammond organ and everything is fine. But when you have a lightweigh portable clone and you start to tier this thing up above stage pianos and stuff it could become an issue. I tilt the XK3C when running single manual so I can read the controls from where I sit because my bench height is driven by my stage piano height. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Damn those Swedes and their keyboards! Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Schiller Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Personally, I like the C2D's aesthetic. However, it leaves me making a list of pros and cons (compared to my C1): Pros: Drawthings; a seemingly nicer interface; *slighty* improved sound and rotary; baroque organ models. Cons: Will likely be very expensive (I'm guessing $3299 at least); plus the additional buttons mean my C1's case won't fit, so that's another $300; have to get used to a new physical layout; since there's no extra voices, I would have to keep using my Alesis Nano modules, but there's no space on top for those modules, so I'd need to put them in a rack, and set that up too. That con list is looking a little long already. So I have to ask myself questions like, "how often do I really use drawbars?" It's definitely too soon to tell. And maybe the sound is so good I can deal. And maybe there's other features that we don't know about that will change my mind... I mean, it's not even released, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 "Drawthings". I declare this the new KC term for drawbar substitutes. BTW looking at the image, the top keybed is not tilted at all, and it shouldn't be. Don't know why the blurb got it wrong. The panel does look tilted however. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 "The upper manual and panel has been tilted for better ergonomics." This is brilliant. It´s not. If the upper manual is tilted, it would be bad for players performing in standing position. Looking at the pic I downloaded, I agree w/ Moe,- only the panel is tilted. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If it is what it looks like then it doesn't really have much in common with an SK2 .... except having 2 manuals. In basic functionality it would be Hammond's one-set-of-drawbars-plus-other-sounds vs. Nord's four-sets-of-drawbars-but-organs-only. In the lightweight dual-manual category, I think Nord has come from behind to overtake Hammond here for the purist. As most of you know I consider myself a "purist", and I am really not turned on by this design. First, they are not real drawbars, second, the controls do no resemble the locations and feel of the classic Hammond console design, and third, the damned end blocks are red....lol Personally, I would rather play a Mojo with its two sets of drawbars.... No, it does not have a classic Hammond layout, but somehow it seems inspired.... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The drawfaders are placed at the same place as the drawbars on a B3, the percussion buttons are on the right hand side and the chorus vibrato controls are on the left side. Ok, they are buttons and not a big knob, but anyway, they are where the knob would be. The button to change between the drawbar sets are located where the preset keys B and Bb would be on a B3. Jeeez, they got it all wrong!!! Tough crowd... Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 In basic functionality it would be Hammond's one-set-of-drawbars-plus-other-sounds vs. Nord's four-sets-of-drawbars-but-organs-only. In the lightweight dual-manual category, I think Nord has come from behind to overtake Hammond here for the purist. As most of you know I consider myself a "purist", and I am really not turned on by this design. But, as a purist, do you not find the Nord more appealing than the SK2 (losing the extra voices to get the 3 extra sets of drawbars)? (True, they are "drawfaders" but then so are the SK2's.) I do see your point about the Mojo, though, Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 And the winner is: Nitpicking! www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 But, as a purist, do you not find the Nord more appealing than the SK2 (losing the extra voices to get the 3 extra sets of drawbars)? (True, they are "drawfaders" but then so are th SK2's), Yes, I do.... As you know I am not a fan of the SK2's ergonomics. But I see it's niche... As well as this new Nord.... Thank god for choices! '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyonsT Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I rather like it, although I can see the impractical parts, and they certainly are NOT drawbars. It is a mixing desk fader. Having said that, it is far better than Hammond Suzuki's effort with the SK2. If you can call it a Hammond. Tonewheels!! KeyB Duo MkII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I still think it's a bit funny that people see pictures of the drawfaders on Ocean Beach, Hammond SK's and now Nord and from the looks and the fact that it is a fader, decide that they won't feel good. Has anyone of you actually touched a drawfader? Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyonsT Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yes, owned an SK1, horrid. Having said that, it was light so it tit for tat. Compromises on sound, build quality and weight, aesthetics. Tonewheels!! KeyB Duo MkII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ok, I haven't seen any of them in person. I really want to try an SK1 and this new Nord. At the moment I'm quite ok with the draw buttons, but I will start using my old Voce Midi Drawbar in time - just have to get a Midi Event Processor first. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There has been quite a few positive reactions of the Oceans Beach's midi drawbar, so if Nord feels like that the C2D will probably find some happy customers. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Nord Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There has been quite a few positive reactions of the Oceans Beach's midi drawbar, so if Nord feels like that the C2D will probably find some happy customers. Speaking of which, Ocean Beach better find something else to do! A.J. Blues Manager and Keyboardist The Tash Brothers Band www.myspace.com/TheTashBrothersBand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Tucktronix and I were watching a decent organ player with a band last Friday night and I was surprised how little presence the C-1 had that he was playing, especially in the higher register. Apart from ergonomic issues I sure hope this thing sounds good or else drawfaders won't make a shit bit of difference if it is not improved in the basic organ tone department. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Speaking of which, Ocean Beach better find something else to do! I can't help but thinking a C2 software update and an ergonomic yet anatomically correct outboard Nord Drawbar Unit that worked with all Nords would be more useful. Similar to the Hammonds or NI B4D stripped to the bones (just drawbars and upper/lower/pedal select). http://www.musiciansbuy.com/mmMBCOM/Images/hammond_xmc2-dw.jpg Drawfudders is like trying to change a culture. I don't get it. I can't wait to see the Nord approach to replacing the whammy bar for guitarists. Clearly it should be replaced by a Red Fader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yup... Tried the drawfaders on the Numa and SK. Hated them.... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Really. I will have to check them out. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I don't mind the "Draw things" and actually liked how it looks, there are enough clones out there that resembles a real B3 (Hamichord, Hammond xk3, Keyb Duo, etc...), modern is good. My main concern is it's sound, if it's up to par. Hopefully they studied the Ventilator and the Vb3 and it'll be as good as them, we'll see. "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 As far as the church thing, I was just looking at Nord's current page for the C2. Header: Church on Sunday mornings, clubs on Saturday nights. The Nord C2 Organ plays both places just right. Then in the body, they start out by saying The Nord C2 Combo Organ includes B3 tonewheel organ, a Vox* Continental and a Farfisa* and a beautiful baroque pipe organ. This makes the C2 an extremely versatile instrument, providing not only rock organ players a new palette of sounds, but also the perfect instrument to use in churches, concert and congregation halls or any other venue where a high quality pipe organ instrument is paramount. and then the first thing they spend time describing is the pipe organ, for nearly a screen's worth. I don't know if they're selling to a lot of churches, but they clearly are trying to. It will be interesting to see if they organize their page for the C2D similarly. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyonsT Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Nord C2D Features: The new left-hand preset sections offer an unsurpassed level of hands-on control and the upper manual and panel has been tilted for better ergonomics.An LCD-display has been added for easier access to programs and settings.The Nord C2D features a redesigned simulation of the characteristic mechanical key clicks that are an essential component of the classic tone-wheel experience.The redesigned percussion model offers increased control over the percussion levels when playing near-legato.The Nord C2D also includes a redesigned Rotary Speaker simulation of a vintage 122 unit.The Nord C2D also includes both the Vox and Farfisa transistor organ simulations and the sampled Baroque Pipe Organ from the acclaimed Nord C2 Combo Organ http://cdn.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Nord-C2D-organ-closeup-640x480.jpg Tonewheels!! KeyB Duo MkII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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