richwhite9 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Again, if the organ and Leslie sounds are not up to the current standard of refinement (Mojo and Ventilator) then who cares how many draw faders they put on it.... I'd be surprised it doesn't include organ refinements. That's been the model--refine the organs in the organ product and then trickle down through the line. The SK2 (when stable), The Mojo, the C20 -- it's a better selection w/ better Leslie emulation and OD and weight factor than the Korg BX3, Roland VK88 and Hammond XK3 approach a decade ago. Ergonomics be damned I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelHead Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'd be surprised it doesn't include organ refinements. That's been the model--refine the organs in the organ product and then trickle down through the line. The SK2 (when stable), The Mojo, the C20 -- it's a better selection w/ better Leslie emulation and OD and weight factor than the Korg BX3, Roland VK88 and Hammond XK3 approach a decade ago. Ergonomics be damned I guess. I agree. My guess is likely the same sound engine though. I wrote before, perhaps way-out speculation easily to be wrong but fun to think, elsewhere, the fadar-drawbars vs conventional drawbars opens the possibility (perhaps in next model if not this) of motorized faders. Press a preset, drawbar-fadars move and the preset is able to be edited to different tone in realtime by changing 'drawbar(s)'. This would conform to the previous LED approach though LED would be faster I would think. Speed could present a problem with this notion unless audio change is programmed before positional change. CME controllers have had them for 3 years. (still available so it must have worked for CME). W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Heck I don't know. I don't see where the game has changed much in quite sometime. The weird thing from where I sit is that the hardware solutions I currently seek seem sort of difficult to solve with modern offerings but are things that were easily done 20+ years ago. The modern stuff sounds good but MIDI integration can be a pain in the butt today. I'm still hoping for a S90XF so I can pickup a S90XS on the cheap. I will let you know the XS was released only a couple years ago so I wonder if anything from Yamaha will be released soon? "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Three-four days left... Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It has a little LED screen so maybe extra sounds are included? Im guessing it's C2D for C2 drawbars. So the same engine as the C2 for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 C2 engine, newly designed click and percussion and new leslie sim. No sample lib. http://m.matrixsynth.com/2012/01/namm-clavia-nord-keyboards-new-products.html Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Interesting. My take? Either... 1) Moe's right and they put in the drawfaders solution to keep up with the SK threat as it was quicker and easier than implementing extra voices or... 2) Nord have deliberately taken the other route and decided to keep the C range as primarily an instrument for organ specialists. If 2), hence the five sets of drawfaders (to both address the recurring criticism of the previous LED controls and to up the ante on the likes of SK2 and Mojo). The blurb also mentions upgraded percussion and Leslie sims. Of course, time will tell how these stack up against its Hammond and Crumar competitors but again, it's obvious they've identified these areas as legitimate criticisms from organ specialists. Not going with the sample library on the C series also prevents the Electro series being undermined, and will also allow Nord to keep it in the same ballpark price range as its predecessor. Those looking for a more all-round gig machine will clearly need to stick with the SK2 but I can see organ specialists (however many of those there are - see previous conversations on this board) being attracted to the Nord for the greater control possibilities. The drawfader numbering may be something you have to get used to a little, but note how cleverly the implementation means that registration notation still holds up. I suspect the reason for choice of this unusual design, as opposed to the "channelling" technique used by Hammond on the SK, could be down to cost and/or weight considerations. Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Another thought - the new conservative paint job on the C2D could point to Nord trying to expand the market for this model. Gospel players are more likely to demand two sets of drawbars per manual, and although the Nord's pipe organ model is more chamber-size than that of the SK, it is far more complete, with unique voices on great, swell and pedals. If Nord is trying to get into the church market big time with this one, that might be another reason why sample library voices would be less of a concern. Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I wonder if this ties in with the new Nord Piano 2? Nord would (I'm sure) love you to buy both, so with a C2D and the piano you have all bases covered (piano, organ and sample library). Oh, and you can buy a Nord synth as well if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well, about to leave thoughts about the NP2 on its own thread, Nick, but I'd say the choices made in both these new models certainly reflect Nord's awareness of the need to protect both the Stage and Electro brands. Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm kinda disappointed there's not an Electro 3 under the hood.Still - it's going to be a killer machine. I'm hoping to be the first in Australia with one! Fingers crossed... www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The most important point has been left out - pricing. Maybe Nord will discuss at the actual show. Note that the display on the C2D simply says, "Nord C2D," which makes me think it will be a while before it ships. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 UK distributor says arrival in February with price TBC Clonk Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ebay ad. Studiologic Numa Organ B3 Model Free Shipping LOWERED PRICE Item condition: New other (see details) Ended: Jan 15, 201205:26:09 PSTItem number: 300647871438 Sold For: US $950.00 The C2D has a niche. Used C1s routinely run in the $1,800 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Until we hear this thing it's really hard to comment... My initial impression is that it looks like the old Farfisa Professional models of he mid 70's. I really do not lke the draw-fader concept. Just looks cheesy and cheap to me. Marketing wise, if you don't have to move it (as in a church), why would you pay over $3000 for it if you can get a good classic Hammond for the same price (or less)? And don't give me that BS about it being new technology with less maintenance issues. I think that argument has been pretty much shot down lately considering the recent issues with Numa and H/S..... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 recent issues with Clavia What issues? Am I forgetting something? "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Stuck notes... On the yahoo Clonewheel forum '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Stuck notes... On the yahoo Clonewheel forum I'm pretty sure that was the Numa, not any Nord. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My bad.... I meant Numa, not Clavia.... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My initial impression is that it looks like the old Farfisa Professional models of he mid 70's. ???? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i1BRQy9a_sc/Tl_ZC6gY7sI/AAAAAAAC5t0/5EIMwednix4/s1600/%2524%2528KGrHqF%252C%2521hkE4563On1nBO%25289BeiJO%2521%257E%257E60_12.JPG http://lh3.ggpht.com/-lLo0kzY7X4c/TxUgO5xqxeI/AAAAAAAADls/MA19YMDGobU/s800/Nord-C2D-Top-thumb.jpg Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogut Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I really do not lke the draw-fader concept. Just looks cheesy and cheap to me. As long as the design achieves a "drawbar motion" what is the difference how it is accomplished mechanically? -Greg Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Drawbars > drawfaders > drawbuttons, no? Relative importance of the differences seems to be personal taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Absolutely it's personal taste.... All I know is that if I had a choice of playing a real Hammond Console and a real Leslie, vs this thing.... But again... Let's hear how it sounds... I am just commenting on how it looks in the photos... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 While I'd love to regularly play a real Hammond and Leslie, the weight and size of course are what stop me. It's all a trade off, isn't it - especially when like me you're in the 40+ age bracket and dodgy backs start coming into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Marketing wise, if you don't have to move it (as in a church), why would you pay over $3000 for it if you can get a good classic Hammond for the same price (or less)? Well, you have to be aware that this is only true in the US. In Sweden and I guess in many other European countries, you won't find a B3, C3 or A100 for less than $7000 - and that can be without a Leslie! Sad but true. For $3000 & I'd say you're very lucky to even find a E100 over here. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Marketing wise, if you don't have to move it (as in a church), why would you pay over $3000 for it if you can get a good classic Hammond for the same price (or less)? Well, you have to be aware that this is only true in the US. In Sweden and I guess in many other European countries, you won't find a B3, C3 or A100 for less than $7000 - and that can be without a Leslie! Sad but true. For $3000 & I'd say you're very lucky to even find a E100 over here. Yeah... Understand that. We are lucky in the US where you can find good A100's for $1000! Add a good Leslie and you are still at around $2000. For churches that rarely move their organs, the classic Hammond still makes a lot of sense. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ditto on high prices in the UK. Spinets can be found cheap, but B3/C3/A100 often fetch big money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Stuck notes... On the yahoo Clonewheel forumI'm pretty sure that was the Numa, not any Nord. My bad.... I meant Numa, not Clavia.... Yes, that's most probably not Nord. I have played Nord almost exclusivly for the last 3+ years (Electro 3 73, Stage 2 sw73) with no issues whatsoever. Clavia has a rigorous testing every single keyboard has to pass before leaving the factory, including many hours at 100% cpu load in a high temperature romm (think sauna). There was a video from their production line some time ago, showing this. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 UK distributor says arrival in February with price TBC Clonk ... and not almost a friggin' year later, like some other manufacturers! :wink: ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Dave, Mr T's comment about vintage Hammond prices in Europe (and their level of availability) is spot-on. Coming back to the church thing... it's true that I still can't see too many of these finding their way into the UK's Anglican or Catholic buildings but extrapolating the argument a little, consider this... Over here, more and more venerable pipe organs are being replaced by digital equivalents. My own church may, sadly, soon have to add itself to that list of establishments. To repair all immediate problems, we are looking at a bill of £35k. The bellows boxes are also close to needing total refurbishment - another £30k. Ideally, the pneumatic action needs converting to an electronic console - around another £34k. That's before you put ongoing tuning and maintenance into the budget. To replace the current console with an equivalent built-in digital one will be in the region of £30k. Sure, I can tell the difference (although it's getting harder with the latest generation of digitals) but the truth is, the percentage of people sitting in the congregation who can't is likely to be in the high nineties. As part of an organisation that by rights should be pretty focused on social justice, I can't in all conscience recommend we take a route which would see us spend a further £70k _minimum_ on an instrument which doesn't even have great historical significance. Ours is not an uncommon story by any means - the church in the big town 15 miles down the road is looking at a minimum £80k just to get their pipe organ back in working condition and it's historically significant, so they have no choice but to suck this up. I appreciate we're not on a direct comparison path here, but the odd cipher issue in early software/hardware releases is pretty insignificant against such problems. Coming back somewhat to the point, if you seriously believe most churches are willing to choose "heritage" instruments such as a C3/B3 (even if price and availability allowed) over a new instrument, I suspect you may be disappointed. Many no longer have the either the appetite or resources. Again, although I highly doubt a C2D will wind up in St Giles, the fact that you have both viable pipe and tonewheel organ models in one instrument increases its flexibility and, to a certain extent, saleability. Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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