non ce futuro Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Here in Spain, 50-60 per musician is now the norm when playing at clubs, 1 or 2 sets of 45min or 1h each. I usually don't leave my house for less than 100 for 1'5h of playing, and that only if I'm going to perform with my jazz trio the music I love. If playing at a festival, or "public-sponsored" event (meaning paid by town hall, for example), 200-250 would be much more like it. Same for corporate events or even weddings (depending on the wedding or event, could be more) In clubs, there's a lot of competition from kid's band that are just willing to play for almost nothing, just because they like to make noise with their friends in front of their friends Not too good stuff, so soon dissapear from the circuit. In my case, music is not what pay my bills, so I can turn down those gigs I'm not interested in. Regarding the DJ's, I don't see a real competition in them, just see them as complementary to the bands. Also I know a lot of Dj's, and most of them are getting 60-70 for a night, just like musicians. There are a few of them really well played (in big discos, etc), but the majority are struggling exactly like musicians. Also it's important to note that being a musician and having a band it's more difficult than hitting play (learn your instrument, rehearse,etc), so there's even more competition in the Dj world than in the musicians' one. Every kid wanna be a DJ now, thinking there's not too much too learn to go to a club and just press play. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 A lot of ripping on, or dismissing of DJs on here. Lets's get one thing straight - there are DJ's, and there are DJ's. It's a completely different skill than being a musician, but for the good ones, it's an art that takes some talent and practice. I don't consider them competition - in fact, they augment our performance by getting people going before we start, keeping them going during breaks, and hyping us. In some cases they're running video to our performance as well. We are a team. Our goal is the same - make the bar successful so that we'll be successful. A crappy DJ wil sabotage an otherise good gig. Anybody can hit play. Not everybody's a good DJ. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non ce futuro Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Maybe I explained myself wrong, I didn't meant that being a DJ is just 'pressing play', on the contrary, I think that being a good DJ needs a lot of learn, practice and skills, and it's an art form. What I meant is that it seems to be easy, and every kid thinks that just with a turntable and a bag full of mp3 they can be the next Guetta, and therefore there's a lot of 'amateur' competition within the dj community. That's why most of them are also struggling to earn good money, there are way too many awful amateur dj's spinning almost for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 "Art Form"? Really? That's like saying someone who cuts out passages from various literary masterpieces and seams the sentences together is an author... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 "Art Form"? Really? That's like saying someone who cuts out passages from various literary masterpieces and seams the sentences together is an author... "Listener's Digest" ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 There's a lot of DJs who would have made great drummers in another era when drummers were more in demand. Are drummers musicians? That's not me BTW. But my experience as a musician in sequencing has helped me out when it comes to accurately gridding tracks in 4/4 bars, breaking up tracks into their components and then laying out cues for hooks, verses, breaks so I can remix on the fly - and especially in assembling rhythm loops to sync with the tracks and run concurrently when needed. I wouldn't call it being a musician when I DJ. But the fact that I am has helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That's because it's a skill to be a DJ... But an artist? Interesting discussion.... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That's because it's a skill to be a DJ... But an artist? Interesting discussion.... Well, let's not get into the "definition of an artist" discussion again, that one's been beat to death Admittedly, artist may be pushing it. The point, though, is that there are DJs who hit play, and there are DJs who read the crowd and creatively chop up and reconstruct songs, scratch, beat match, and produce something unique. Produce is probably a good word, because I liken them to a producer except that they are crafting it on the fly and interacting with th crowd - getting people fired up and dancing. Again, artist may be a strong word, but I can certainly appreciate what a GOOD DJ does. Good ones who have honed their craft get paid well and even tour. Entire Genres of techno have been spawned by the styles of different DJs. That may not be your thing, but the fact remains that they shaped existing music into something else, which takes some creativity. Their tools are different than ours. They are not musicians. But artists? Potentially approaching one depending on what they are doing. That's as far as I'll go. Regardless, getting back on topic, GOOD DJs are worth some money, and if we as musicians work with them and embrace them, the result can be mutually beneficial. I've had DJ's screw us because a band member got upset over him announcing before we were ready, making us look bad. They had words, and over the following weeks, the DJ convinced the club owner to cancel ome of our gigs. He was bad mouthing us to other agents and clubs as well. Eventually, we prevailed, but he caused us some trouble for a short time. On the flip side, we have DJs that take our logo and video and VJ to our shows, promote us, pump up the crowd...we share set list and they make sure they augment our set while not playing anything we're going to play. One DJ is a great singer and we've had him sit in. These guys land contracts in multiple rooms, and building good relationships with them is beneficial. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Excellent post, Dan.... You are right about equating a DJ to a producer.... Never thought about that. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non ce futuro Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Not all Djs are artists, but there are some of them I would consider artists, for sure. Here are two very different examples of DJ Krush performing live and a song by Kid Loco, which makes his living spinning records but is able to make this kind of songs too. [video:youtube] [video:youtube] There are many many more examples, St.Germain, Moby, etc, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yannis D Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I was ready to check some Shadow youtube but you did it before me And there are others: Dj Krush, Dj Logic, Dj Cam, Dj Kingsize... Really creative guys, playing live with bands and great musicians ons stage. Some years ago we had a Dj as part of my band. He was spinning vinyls, finding melodic parts, tuning and playing them with the groove (which, in many cases was odd meters). He was a real musician, not "just" a vinyl spinner. When he left the band there was a void. So, as other said, there are DJ's and DJ's... Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 As someone alluded to earlier, I "play" for free. What I charge for is putting on appropriate clothing, schlepping gear, dealing with traffic and parking, finding the venue, finding the place to set up within the venue, finding power outlets, setting up, tearing down, and (most especially) dealing with whatever level of idiocy and irritation may come from any or all of the people involved in the entire process. As far as minimum price, I tend to view "money gigs" and "fun gigs" as separate entities. I have a steady 4-night/week gig that pays my bills. Because of that, if I get called to do a low-paying-but-enjoyable gig on one of my nights off, I may well take it. If it's a chance to play music I like with people I like, and without a lot of hassle, I'll do it for $50, maybe even less if it's something I really dig. But for things like weddings, private parties, store openings -- you know, situations that will actually require effort and professionalism -- I won't leave my house for less than $150 (more if I have to schlep gear), and from there I deal with it on an hourly rate. Anything less than that, and I'd rather sit at home and watch Law & Order reruns. Oh, and I would take an office job before I'd become a DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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