Live rig help

[Firedude721]

Hey All,

 

I'm in the process of joining up with a band that plays country, classic/southern rock, and some top 40 stuff. I've played live in church and with other musicians in the past but never on a huge stage. I need some help with a good rig. Here's what I have at present.

 

Main Keyboard is a Roland Fantom X8. I have a Yamaha Motif Rack ES, an original motif rack, and a Korg Triton Rack. In a nutshell, I've got a sound generating powerhouse. I've always used this for AP, pads, strings, brass, etc. All of this runs through an 8 way DI, to a Behringer RX1202FX Mixer.

 

Here's what I need some help with:

 

I love the Roland but it's a pain to play an organ on. I would like a second keyboard or controller that has:

-61 Synth action/semi weighted keys

-some way of controlling draw bars for organ sounds (B3)

-good organ sound (b3)

-regular power not USB

-plug and play MIDI interface that will control my rack modules

-setup without a computer if possible

-lightweight (no real B3 sorry guys)

-ability to use it for other sounds

-around $1000 or less new or used

 

Next:

I need some way to hear myself over the guitars. Whatever it is, it has to sound good, be able to be moved with ease, and look presentable not stupid. I was leaning towards a powered amp with floor monitors with my own mix and the main mix equalized by my mixer or some version of this or in ear monitors. I'd like to be cost effective if possible but I'll pay up if I need to. The system needs to be able to work in a bar or small church all the way to a large stage.

 

Lastly, how do I take stereo output and turn it into mono without losing sounds? Right now I have the left and right out of the Roland running to the DI on seperate channels. Then the keyboard takes up two mixer spots as well. Is there a way to make it mono after it runs through the DI so I only have to use one fader for volume instead of two?

 

Thanks!

[David Loving]

Get an XK1, hammond. It has everything you specified and used probably fits your budget. Don't lug around keyboard amps - go through the monitors to hear yourself. If you absolutely have to take a monitor speaker of your own, get one small powered speaker to run off the direct box. Don't worry about stereo/mono. Do whatever the sound man will do. Let the sound guy handle the sound. Go mono for ease of set up. Worry about how well you can play. Obsessing over a piano sound when you do not have a real piano is, in my view, just a copout to set up an excuse in advance for a poor performance. Just play as well as you can - let her rip! Good luck!!!

[CEB]

You rig is fine. Maybe go twin tier and add a clone if you want. XK-1, CX-3, XK-3c, VK-8, that Ventura organ, SK-1 etc ..... It is all good. I'm a Hammond Suzuki fanboy myself. But they all work.

 

Just don't plug anything into the Right side output jack on the Fantom. Come out of the left only and you have mono.

 

If it was me, which means it you may not want to do this. I would stay away IEMs unless the whole band is going IEM. I also wouldn't worry about mixing in the band monitor sends in with your keyboard stage amplification.

 

Just get one of two powered speakers. The Behringer B212D are at $229 each and you can get increasing quality by spending more money. The Peavey Impulse 12Ds are nice at about $900. I use QSCs myself they are OK. EVs, JBL's etc.... It's all good and fairly lightweight and loud if you want it to be.

 

 

I think a big factor is what kind of PA does your band use? How many monitor sends and what type of monitor setup. You may not even need a stage amp or you may need a big one.

 

 

 

 

 

[Throbert]

numa organ, if the others are using IEMS then thats what you use, if not you could use iems for your self and sanity, with a area mic, but will need something for stage presence, depending on the venue you could use any thing from a QSE K10 to a multitude of other larger PA style and 2 to 3 way Speakers probably around 15". As for Mono, the way I understand it if you use only the mono left, by not using the right connecter it bypasses to the left.

[Firedude721]

I've played under several circumstances. Most of the time when the stage is ample size they have 5 monitors. But I've been in a place where they have had only one monitor. Which is where I ran into trouble. Every time I got to a level that I could hear myself enough to discern notes, the guitar player would turn his volume up even more, thus a perpetuating cycle. I just want to be able to hear myself and be able to let the sound guy take care of everyone else and me take care of what I hear.

 

As far as a second keyboard, I was looking at something more like a Juno or a korg m50, or a midi controller and just using two of the rack modules for the sounds. I looked at the Hammond but I didn't find it at a price point low enough. So I was looking for a viable solution.

 

Thanks for the ideas so far!

[Ken Beaumont]

Get yourself a decent powered speaker, the QSC k12 is very popular here. Though I personally think the Carvin PM12A is a great choice Link

 

As for the second keyboard if your happy with your organ sounds just control them with a controller such as the Novation impulse 61 Link

 

The above won't set your budget back much. And after you earn back enough cash through gigging to justify it then you can go for the Hammond SK1!

[mul]

I personally can vouch for the m50. Have two of em. The 88 and the 73. Lovely sounds that cut through. Very user friendly and light too ( 73 key). Go try one out.

[Bob L]

If you are playing a lot of organ and want the immediate "hands on" changes with drawbars a clonewheel is probably best. I purchased a vintage (analog) CX-3 a couple of years ago (<$500) and it is awesome in a band setting. Other clonewheels (XK1, Numa, etc.) will do a great job also and give your guitar player a run for the money!

[Firedude721]

Thanks guys keep the suggestions comming. Is there a 61 key synth like the korg m50 that you would recommend?

[Tobias Åslund]

m50 is ok, but the keyboard feel is far from the best. Also, the organs aren't that great - and no possibility for drawbar control.

 

With that limited budget it might be hard to find what you want. XK1 might be a good choice though - great keyboard feel for Hammond, not the best for pianos. The midi control ability is really good! Other sounds are just plain bad (epianos, clavinet, two synth leads). Not the lightest board around - wooden panels weigh a bit - around 14 kilos/30 pounds if I remember correctly.

 

What would be great for you is probably an Hammond SK1 - but that's way out of your budget.

Kurzweil PC361 would probably also be a great choice, but also too expensive for you..

[Mr. Nightime]

Having some experience with the Fantom X8 and its organ sounds, get a Hammond. I do not like the organ sounds. But there again, I have yet to hear an all purpose rompler with even passable organ sounds.

 

Yes, if you just go out of the left/mono output of the Roland, you'll get mono. I was a proponent for stereo for a long time, but it turned out to be just more gear to lug around.

 

As far as on stage sound, I will not rely on house monitor systems. The scenario you described where when you got loud enough to hear, the guitarist turned up will happen more times that you'll be able to count. I got sick of playing by braille that even with a full monitor system, I will have my own amplification. Even in church, where I have my own monitor mix, and my own powered monitor, I run my QSC K10. I put it in an amp stand, and point it at myself.

 

The beauty of this is I have enough horsepower to cover FOH in a situation where there is no sound man, and no one goes through the PA.

 

 

 

[Tobias Åslund]

Another thought for you - you might want to check out this thread about the Ferrofish drawbar module. Judging from the demos I would say it's far from being a top clonewheel contender, but at least it's relatively cheap and small.

[mul]

Will also Agree with the xk1 and use it to control the modules. I have one of these also and it rocks. You could get a good second hand One and prob also get a vent ( not right away )U would then have a killer 2 board rig with pro sounds and maximum midi flexibility.

[Firedude721]

I actually really like the xk1, but it's pricey. I checked out the module and for the price it looks decent but I still need something with synth or semi weighted action. What's the best choice knowing what I already have?

[David Loving]

get it used

[Tobias Åslund]

I think if you are planning on keeping your rig as it is - you have basically everything but organ covered. Get a used XK1 and your rig is complete. If you for some gig want a lightweight and small rig - just take the XK1 and the Motif module. Then if you in the future can afford it - you should get a Ventilator leslie sim as well. It is so good, even your Roland could produce passable organs if you run it through the Vent.

 

Then about amplification - get yourself some good quality speakers. I just got a pair of EV ZXA1-90B. They're not cheap, but now finally I have a LOUD good quality monitor system.

 

Mono or stereo? As others have pointed out - if you want to go mono, you should only use the mono output of your synths. You don't want to sum L & R outputs - it can give you strange phase sound issues. But, all of your Romplers are made to play in stereo - so they will most probably sound better that way - if you can afford it.

[Firedude721]

Thanks, looks like I'll be getting an xk1. Does anyone use passive monitors with an amp behind them or just use powered? I'll look up the ventilator.

 

If I output in mono will I lose the phase effect of some of the ep's or will the rack units and fantom auto convert it? I have everything to run stereo right now I just hate having to adjust two seperate sliders every time I want to make a volume change.

[Lord_Nord]

You can get a Nord Electro 2 used for about $1000 or $1100. Awesome B3 simulation and weighs in at 9.4 kg (about 24 pounds). Lightweight organ power + great rhodes, clav, and wurli sounds! Waterfall weighted just like a Hammond B3.

[Tobias Åslund]

Well - an Electro is useless as a midi keyboard, and the XK1 is really good. Also, no reverb in the NE2. Then I honestly think an XK1 has better organ as well.

[Delaware Dave]

PC361 (as stated earlier) would fit the bill. great midi controller, nice B3/leslie sim. has 9 sliders for the drawbars, also has all the vintage sounds you'll need for the type of music you'll be playing. should also meet your weight restriction.

[Firedude721]

I've been looking at all three of these, the sk1, electro 2/3, and the PC361. It looks like the Kurzweil is the most versatile although I have no experience with that brand. Thanks for all the help!

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I've never seen nor played the SK1, I owned an Electro 3 (73) until a few weeks ago, and I replaced it with a PC361. Not that the Electro didn't do what it did very well; but the 361 does a lot more (and the sliders are easier to control doing drawbar changes while playing than the Nord drawbuttons). It doesn't hurt that I was already well familiar with the PC3 line, having a PC3X since March, 2008 and a PC3 since Feb, 2009. Most of the PC361's have been sold already, but they are going for a little more than half of what they cost before the sale.