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Victor on why audiences don't like bass solos (usually)


Phil W

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I agree with Victor. This is also what I heard from Marcus Miller at a clinic: make a groove for yourself while you are soloing. Bach was a master in this field, think of unaccompanied cello suites: there is always a bass going on while the other half of the instrument sings. Like here. I played this when I was on flute.

 

[video:youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBXJ60HbhDM

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I can't watch the clip at the moment.

 

I find it hard to switch to melody mode. As a bassplayer I'm thinking of harmony and bass all the time. Without something solidly backing up the bass solo it can lose drive.

 

Stepping away from the roots makes me nervous especially when the rest of the band have dropped out and you have no reference to help you come back in if you lose count.

 

Lots of bass solos just get all technical. Ideally you need to learn the melody of the song and play off that. I think it was Jaco who suggested that bass players should learn the melody of a song regardless.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Part of the problem is so few people know how to comp behind a bass solo. Also, the very register is limiting. Melodies are usually in the middle and upper register for a reason. A bass also responds slower and doesn't have the tonal variances of a guitar or sax. So...yeah, bass solos have to be carefully crafted. And short!

JAZZ UN-STANDARDS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vE4FoJ4Cr4&feature=related

 

DON'T FEAR...THE REVERB! 60's Instrumentals with MORE BASS!

 

 

 

 

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I think that most peoples dislike bass solos because almost everyone stared slaping on bass without any ideas how to develop next "step"(and mainly in E major/minor) and 90% of the time those bass players have shown everthing they know withing one to two minutes.Peoples like a solos with some line and effects IMO.
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While I certainly agree with Victor's reasoning about the groove it leads me to ask:

Is it only the bass player that is responsible to support the groove? I expect all my band mates to give my solos the same support given them. The audience is just following the rest of the band to the bar or the rest room if that is the "support" they give.

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While I certainly agree with Victor's reasoning about the groove it leads me to ask:

Is it only the bass player that is responsible to support the groove? I expect all my band mates to give my solos the same support given them. The audience is just following the rest of the band to the bar or the rest room if that is the "support" they give.

 

This is essentially what Plangent and I are saying. Too often you find the drums are the only other instrumnet playing. Is this because the guitars and keys don't know how to comp or find it boring or do, or do they just think that no-one else is playing when they do their solos so they shouldn't? Maybe they want no-one else to play when they are soloing?

 

Maybe there are too many people who just think bass is bass and lead is lead and they shouldn't cross over. I know that whenever one of my guitarist friends pick up a bass, whatever ensues is a slap fest or very unlike bass.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Yes, I agree. I played a lot of solos with one of my groups and the other guys did such a fabulous job of providing the groove that I was free to play against the best in the solos and everyone was happy (even the audience).

 

There's also the aspect of making your solo groove (in its own way) by itself. It can be done (check the Bach cello above) or the many solo instrumentalists that there are but it needs considering and playing with passion, momentum and groove,

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I think it was Jaco who suggested that bass players should learn the melody of a song regardless.

 

It's amazing how much of a groove you can get out of the melody.

 

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8034634

 

:D :D :D

 

Are you serious? LOL!

JAZZ UN-STANDARDS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vE4FoJ4Cr4&feature=related

 

DON'T FEAR...THE REVERB! 60's Instrumentals with MORE BASS!

 

 

 

 

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13 year old girl who likes bass solos.

 

I hope she gets fat :(

 

:grin:

 

Seriously, now: that was awesome, too! Makes me want to go and practice the crap out of my instrument.

 

And makes me wish I'd started at 13 and spent time with good teachers instead of starting at 20 and spending time in bad bands :(

 

"I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes

 

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The bass player in band I host jams with solos a couple of times a night, and so does the drummer. We don't have the problem some of you seem to. I'm not usually overawed by what our guy does, but he's usually fairly melodic, works a lot of harmonics in, and doesn't do much slap. But he almost always lays down a heck of a groove. The audience almost always visibly engages with and enjoys what he does. He almost always gets applause.

 

Maybe I'm showing my age here, but back in high school everybody loved it when the band broke the groove down and built it back up an instrument at a time. Songs like Archie Bell & The Drells' "Tighten Up" and Sly & The Family Stone's "Dance To The Music" made a point of doing that, and I don't recall an audience that wasn't always pulled right along with it.

 

Personally, I think musicians are more bothered by solos than the audience is. Maybe it's a holdover from the anti-virtuosity "DOWN WITH MUSOS!!!!" attitude of the 90's or something. My response to people who say they are tired of endless noodling solos is, "Well, then play something worth hearing instead of noodling. If you don't know how, learn."

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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There's a difference between breaking it down and playing the riff along to the drums, and all out soloing.

 

I suppose the most basic solo is the riff plus a few fill-in licks but I get the feeling we're talking about the kind of solo that departs completely from the basic riff.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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When Sly & The Family Stone did their stuff live, the solos went on longer than they did on the 3 minute AM radio releases, and expanded on the theme. I couldn't tell you about Archie Bell's band, but Larry Graham wasn't the only bassist who took the opportunity for a showcase.

Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

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Well, in the rock world at least, a keyboard or guitar "solos" still plays atop the groove, so it's not really a solo, is it?

 

If a bass player or drummer must solo, the groove should be the framework for the solo. Throw in some ruffles and flourishes, but if my feet stop tapping, you've lost me.

 

 

 

"Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me.'-Hamlet

 

Guitar solos last 30 seconds, the bass line lasts for the whole song.

 

 

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Well, in the rock world at least, a keyboard or guitar "solos" still plays atop the groove, so it's not really a solo, is it?

 

If a bass player or drummer must solo, the groove should be the framework for the solo. Throw in some ruffles and flourishes, but if my feet stop tapping, you've lost me.

 

 

 

I think that's pretty much what Vic was saying...

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Well, in the rock world at least, a keyboard or guitar "solos" still plays atop the groove, so it's not really a solo, is it?

 

If a bass player or drummer must solo, the groove should be the framework for the solo. Throw in some ruffles and flourishes, but if my feet stop tapping, you've lost me.

 

 

 

I think that's pretty much what Vic was saying...

 

Yep. Not all of us have access to YouTube all the time. I've just watched the clips and that's pretty much what he and most of us are saying.

 

The Tal track starts well but even she just ends up noodling. Although to be fair it is a clip of her playing bass.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Vic is not saying don't solo - he's saying groove your ass off when you do solo. It's not always about the background instruments - if you listen to breaks from guys like Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker they grooved hard! And guys like Michael Brecker could take a saxophone solo unaccompanied and completely own the groove.
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