engineerjoel Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Is this normal behavior for the Numa Organ? Someone check this for me, please. 1) Make sure that PERCUSSION is Turned OFF. 2) Push In all the DrawBars except for the last white drawbar (1'). 3) Play and hold a note (or chord). 4) Turn ON the percussion....Note: do not stop holding the note (or chord). Question: does the "sound" stop the instant that you turned on the Percussion? 5) Continue holding the note (or Chord) and then Turn OFF the Percussion. Question: does the "sound" come back on again? The Numa that I have behaves just as described above. Is this normal Numa Organ behavior? This behavior only happens with the (1') foot drawbar. If you pull out any of the remaining 8 drawbars, the note (or chord) does not stop sounding when turning the Percussion ON/OFF. Thanks. Yamaha CP-80/S80/S90es/P125/DGX-670/AN1x/MOTIF XS-Rack/CS6R/Roland D-50/Prophet 5(Rev 3.3.)/OBX8/Prophet 5 (Rev 4)/OB-8/Juno-60/Jupiter-6/Studiologic Numa Organ with Neo Ventilator/Korg Kronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRkeys Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I do not have a Numa but that is the way a real B3 works. It steals that drawbar for percussion. Same with most clones. Nord Electro 3... Korg CX3... Leslie 145... Wurlitzer 200a... Juno 106... Roland RD170... DS88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3Nut Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 A B-3 emulator is considered inauthentic if it doesn't do this. TP --- Todd A. Phipps "...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..." http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEMcCut Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 My Roland VR760 does the same but it can be bypassed. I would guess the is a way to do that on the Numa, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Some people used to rewire their hammonds to steal a different drawbar for percussion (1 3/5 was common). Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yup... classic. 1' drawbar does not sound when perc. is on.Wire details and all... When I set my drawbars to the basic 888+3rd I often pull my 1' drawbar out.Usually, if I turn percussion off chances are I'm going for a Holmes'ish registration (888000008). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerjoel Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 @B3Nut....point well taken..thanks for the clarification. I hate to hijack my own post and change the subject here...but..as good as most B-3 Emulators are these days, why can't someone produce a B-3 Emu that includes the note-on phenomenon that as you press a Hammond key very slowly you will hear each drawbar sound one after another? This sort of makes the B3 "touch-sensitive-like" and very expressive as it is especially noticable when playing fast-runs vs slow-runs: different harmonic content are reproduced at different playing speeds. Later,joel Yamaha CP-80/S80/S90es/P125/DGX-670/AN1x/MOTIF XS-Rack/CS6R/Roland D-50/Prophet 5(Rev 3.3.)/OBX8/Prophet 5 (Rev 4)/OB-8/Juno-60/Jupiter-6/Studiologic Numa Organ with Neo Ventilator/Korg Kronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 You mean this?? ...at 2:12? I never heard any clone that does that. I guess it would be pretty tricky for engineers to acomplish. Mostly because of the nature of the problem. To simulate different outputs based on 'how high' the depressed key is... hmmmmmm. I don't know. Well, there's something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 It's already here - the new B-3 does that. But it comes at a prize... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 and... it also comes with "weight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 The Hammond New B3 MkII and Portable B3 MkII (and their previous versions) have 9 contacts per key to provide this feature. The XK- and SK- series have adjustable attack times to kind of emulate the building of the strength/volume of the tone over a short period of time. Since in theory the 9 contacts should close at the same time, the entire distance a key travels between when the first contact and last contact closes is probably less than a millimeter or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yeah... agreed!!!But, I guess engineerjoel was talking about simulating the whole "9 contact hardware" via software.That was what I was also thinking about. PS: NewB3 have 10 contacts per key (to adress the issue mentioned by OP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 You would have to have the software produce 9 randomly timed (within ~1/2 second) MIDI on notes for every key pressed and the same for every key released multiplied by every key pressed and released. The opportunity for lost MIDI data and stuck notes is too high a probability. The companies developing B3 emulators must have decided making the attack time adjustable was a more reliable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 PS: NewB3 have 10 contacts per key (to adress the issue mentioned by OP). I stand corrected, but there is still the option to have the 1' drawbar drop out or not when Percussion is on. I don't know about the Numa, but the Hammond XK's and SK's also have the option to make the 1' drawbar live when Percussion is on. One can also opt to not have the drawbar volume drop when Soft Percussion is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 VB-3 can smear the key click time according to velocity. Not the same as delaying the tones, and it requires you to lose shallow triggering. What MIDI needs is a POSITIONAL message and not just a velocity and pressure message. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerjoel Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 @keyclicker: Yea...2:12...that's Awesome! rewind-play it again. Yamaha CP-80/S80/S90es/P125/DGX-670/AN1x/MOTIF XS-Rack/CS6R/Roland D-50/Prophet 5(Rev 3.3.)/OBX8/Prophet 5 (Rev 4)/OB-8/Juno-60/Jupiter-6/Studiologic Numa Organ with Neo Ventilator/Korg Kronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 VB-3 can smear the key click time according to velocity. Not the same as delaying the tones, and it requires you to lose shallow triggering. What MIDI needs is a POSITIONAL message and not just a velocity and pressure message. Don't hold your breath waiting for hardware that would do this. IMHO, it's not needed. Good clones can now emulate keyclick using random timing of emulating the 11 contacts closing in a short interval. With velocity, as mentioned above, it can vary the interval based on velocity; without velocity (early triggering) it can use a preset interval that should be quite good enough for most purposes. To me, the main thing about keyclick is that it doesn't sound the same all the time. Earlier clones made the mistake of using the same sound for keyclick every time. They're better now! (Well, some are. My NE2 isn't, I'm pretty sure. Not the very best clone but still I enjoy playing it and the convenience.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerjoel Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 I do not have a Numa but that is the way a real B3 works. It steals that drawbar for percussion. Same with most clones. @ MRKeys and B3NUT (at the top of this thread): I just played the new Nord Electro 4D organ and apparently Nord does not follow real B3 percussion-convention... because when you turn the percussion "on", the 1' drawbar continues to sound and does not get stolen for percussion. Later, Yamaha CP-80/S80/S90es/P125/DGX-670/AN1x/MOTIF XS-Rack/CS6R/Roland D-50/Prophet 5(Rev 3.3.)/OBX8/Prophet 5 (Rev 4)/OB-8/Juno-60/Jupiter-6/Studiologic Numa Organ with Neo Ventilator/Korg Kronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoooombiex Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I do not have a Numa but that is the way a real B3 works. It steals that drawbar for percussion. Same with most clones. @ MRKeys and B3NUT (at the top of this thread): I just played the new Nord Electro 4D organ and apparently Nord does not follow real B3 percussion-convention... because when you turn the percussion "on", the 1' drawbar continues to sound and does not get stolen for percussion. Later, This is an option you can turn on and off. Nords have it off by default, meaning percussion does NOT cancel the 1' drawbar. It's in the 4d manual, p.19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerjoel Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 Good tip zoooombiex. Thanks! Yamaha CP-80/S80/S90es/P125/DGX-670/AN1x/MOTIF XS-Rack/CS6R/Roland D-50/Prophet 5(Rev 3.3.)/OBX8/Prophet 5 (Rev 4)/OB-8/Juno-60/Jupiter-6/Studiologic Numa Organ with Neo Ventilator/Korg Kronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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