OT: what's wrong with people?

[J. Dan]

Been watching all afternoon the local news covering the abduction of a 1yr old boy. Reminded me of my son (turning 3 this week), and I was just gripped watching the search. Well they just found a deceased child and will have a news conference in 25 min. I don't know these people, but I was literally balling and still have tears in my eyes. You hear stories from time to time in the news about this sort of thing, but this really hit me. Maybe because the body was found in a place near where I grew up that I've driven past hundreds of times.

 

Either way, with as much as there is in this world to be upset about, this sort of thing just baffles me. How can somebody do such a thing? What's this world coming to? It makes so many other problems seem like insignificant BS. I can't imagine what those parents must be going through, and how horrible a person has to be to do this.

[yannis D]

It's a cruel and crazy world, and it always have been - and we are lucky living in our little bubble full of music and gear. But it's a jungle out there. This is a crazy story (my daughter is 2 y.o.) and i can't even imagine the pain of the poor boys parents. As you said, after you hear such news, everything else is quite insignificant.

[I-missRichardTee]

You have my sympathy- I am too emotional to deal with this .

To answer your question.... One word. Evil

[Fusker]

Yep horrid.

 

Sick, evil people have always existed.

[J. Dan]

One thing I have to say - compared to what I've seen in some of these stories in the national news, the police presence has been extremely impressive. Within the first couple hours, literally hundreds of police and FBI canvassing the miles around the house, a seemingly cooperative and positive relationship with the media, etc. They just had the press conference. Very touching. It's getting dark here and they have about a 1sq mile wooded area where the body was found to search for evidence. I really hope they find and fry the bastard.

[Musicale]

Yeah this kind of stuff has become frequent nowadays. It perhaps could have been there all along but with technology information is available instantly and most everywhere in the World in a matter of seconds.

 

I used the think the US was a place of greater safety than most others, but you look at the shootings for example in a weekend in Chicago, it's really not much different than Afghanistan.

 

My biggest regret now is having to watch my kids (17 and 19) negotiate the World and the way it is now. I think back growing up in the 50's and 60's how much slower and more civilized things were.

 

I'm not sure the best way to handle things nowadays. I wonder if my parents for example as they hit their 50's thought the same, how much slower thing were back in the 20's and 30's.

 

It's a sign of the times and I don't think they will get any better, it's a matter of how you adjust, change with the times if you will. Don't assume anything. You can't be isolated, but be very aware and always, always have your guard up for the unexpected.

 

From Naperville,

Musicale

[I-missRichardTee]

Stunned a bit by your sad news, I completely forgot this news.

 

I live in san Diego now

I musician computer friend had recommended a fellow he hadn't met who sold used macs at nice prices

On the news LAST night. I saw his home

He and a youngster were robbed AND BEATEN with baseball bats.

He is in critical condition.

Two pieces of garbage... Had robbed him previously. my guess is these "sweet hearts" returned for the easy mark.

The 67 year old victim spoke 5 languages, was very friendly

His "set up" was easy access for his customers. I always called before coming

But one just walked through the OPEN garage into one of the adjoining small rooms where this kind, informed and intelligent gentleman ( who loved jazz ) would be seated

All the prices were on his merchandise.

I hope he recovers but not as a vegetable

 

My heart goes out to all parents.

[ProfD]

Good and bad people will always exist. The reality of evil is more evident as it hits closer to home.

 

It is especially sad when children are subjected to hurt, harm, danger or the ultimate price of losing their lives.

 

As human beings, the best we can do is love each other. Treat others as we wish to be treated.

 

But, at all times, keep our heads on a swivel. Take nothing for granted. Life is short.

[J. Dan]

Being a parent changes your perspective, for sure - especially as a guy. I think a lot of women tend to naturally have that connection to children, but for me, it all changed once I had kids of my own. I hope that last statement wasn't sexist in any way. I really don't know, I can only speak for myself. But since having kids, this sort of thing hits me REALLY hard, where it didn't before.

[I-missRichardTee]

This is OT. But help this old timer know ( and for the sake of those watching this ) what you mean when you cast doubt on your behavior by saying I hope this is not sexist?

 

[J. Dan]

Suggesting that among people without children, women tend to have a more emotional connection. I don't know if it's just me who became more emotional once I had kids, or all men, or all people (men and women). That comment was a combination of my own experience and how emotional I've become, coupled with the interview with the young babysitter (with o kids of her own) who was very distraught. IDK, just got me thinking - more internalized than anything. After I made the comment, I started thinking maybe I was off base. I just don't know. It's sort of OT from the OT topic, anyway.

[I-missRichardTee]

Well OT of OT

I was brought up to strongly believe that women have a stronger connection to children

Though I have met exceptions

That still is my belief

Wondering what factors would cause you to not think as all your forefathers thought.

Has something fundamentally changed about human nature?

Pm if you wish to continue this

 

[I-missRichardTee]

One thing I have to say - compared to what I've seen in some of these stories in the national news, the police presence has been extremely impressive.

 

Unfortunately the police presence is not present sufficiently to Prevent monsterous activity

Cops swarm AFTER the heinous acts, not before.

[timwat]

Agreed with all these comments. As a father of two (now young adults) these horrific tragedies still wrench my heart. Indeed, there is horrible evil in this broken world of ours.

 

In my humble opinion, this still connects tangentially to purposeful motivation for artists and musicians. The beauty that can be created can do more than earn a few ducats and provide for yet more conspicuous consumption - rather, great art stands out in the midst of a war-torn world to point to something greater, something worth fighting for to preserve.

 

Enough rambling, I don't intend to derail this thread.

[JeffLearman]

What's wrong with people? Nothing; they taste great. Just ask Charlton Heston.

[JeffLearman]

I used the think the US was a place of greater safety than most others, but you look at the shootings for example in a weekend in Chicago, it's really not much different than Afghanistan.

The statistics would prove you wrong about that.

I think back growing up in the 50's and 60's how much slower and more civilized things were.

I think back growing up in the 60's and 70's and remember how folks said how much slower and more civilized things were in the 30's and 40's. Oh, except for that nasty war, and the Depression and all.

 

Everbody loved the 50's. Except for blacks in the South, that is.

[I-missRichardTee]

Were you alive in the 30's .?

We only can guess what life was like then.

When I was young, there used to be these apparently verboten old sayings

Like. A stitch in time saves nine

People who live in glass houses ....

If the shoe fits wear it

Hundreds of these sayings , all gone.

We also had a saying that it was highly uncool to speak ill of the departed.

Perhaps, just perhaps, if those ( in my opinion ) wise proverbs had not been removed from the lexicon, you might have been inhibited from making sarcastic remark against the departed .. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[JeffLearman]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. I didn't say anything about the departed, other than a bad joke about the movie Soylent Green.

 

I still hear those sayings. I don't hear some great ones my grandfather used to use, like "... steady in spurts, like a toad a-walkin'!"

 

In any case, I don't find gross generalizations terribly illuminating. People who make generalizations are idiots.

[I-missRichardTee]

I only saw the name of Charlton Heston. Not the movie

So I mistakenly thought yu were referring to the departed Heston.

My apologies

 

I'm finishing a book by m Scott peck

In it he declares that bringing BACK those old sayings.. Proverbs, would be a very good idea for our culture

I fully agree. Can you share more of your old family sayings?

[JeffLearman]

Oh, now I understand! Total miscommunication (and bad joke). I should have included a wink. Sorry for the confusion! No apology necessary.

[marino]

What's wrong with people? A little something is wrong with most people. Most of us have the capabilties to hurt others in certain situations. Then some people (a strict minority, hopefully) have a much lower 'damage treshold', past which they lose their humanity and just want to destroy. I don't know why it's like this, but I suspect that it has always been the same in history. Luckily, these tragedies don't happen every day, so when two or three happen in a short period, we think that it's a sign of the times... but the whole history of mankind is full of atrocities, in all periods and places.

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

+1 on the above

I would add

You say these things are infrequent,, thankfully

But how do we know this? The media supplies and filters what we hear, how much, with what slant, and if we even hear it.

 

 

[J. Dan]

To your point, I haven't seen this on the national news. Why do some of these stories get coverage, and others not? Is one life more precious than another?

[RABid]

There has always been evil but increased population density and media coverage has magnified the effect than an evil person can have on society. I don't know how the councilors in out children's program sleep at night. I read some of the reports they send to DCBS. The volume of cases is unreal and out court system seems to take the stand that a child is better off in the home as long as they can survive. Heavy drug use in the area has made it worse. It seems that every week a drug addict mom has let a live-in abuse or kill her child.

[NoahZark]

There are bad people in the world. Always have been. Always will be.

 

Thankfully, however, there are far more good people in the world than bad. The good peole just don't make the news as often.

 

The story in St. Louis is tragic. I really hope the parents weren't involved, but the Casey and Caylee Anthony saga made me cynical about such things....

 

Noah

[keyClicker]

"Evil is going on... More than you know..."

[Bridog6996]

Certain people just don't have the capability to feel empathy or experience emotions on a normal level. We call these people sociopaths. Whether it's due to some sort of mental/chemical deficiency or whatever, there are certain people who live outside the reality and morality of societal behavior that the averages person adheres to. What makes it more frightening is how little we understand about this behavior, and there are all manner of grey areas in between. The TV show Dexter is all about this subject.

 

[Cygnus64]

I used the think the US was a place of greater safety than most others, but you look at the shootings for example in a weekend in Chicago, it's really not much different than Afghanistan.

The statistics would prove you wrong about that.

Correct. It's also usually limited to well-defined, avoidable areas.

 

what's wrong with people?

To be more accurate, the question should be "What's wrong with America"? While others can chime in and say "This and that country has blah blah killing blah blah", there is no first-world country even remotely close to the US when it comes to crime. Discussing that will bring us to the "politics" word so we'll avoid it. Let's just say that are legal and educational systems are beyond broken.

[NoahZark]

....there is no first-world country even remotely close to the US when it comes to crime.

 

I don't want to enter the verboten arena of politics either, but I just don't believe that the quoted statement is factually accurate, and a few quick Google searches provides some evidence in support of my belief.

 

Noah

[I-missRichardTee]

....there is no first-world country even remotely close to the US when it comes to crime.

 

I don't want to enter the verboten arena of politics either, but I just don't believe that the quoted statement is factually accurate, and a few quick Google searches provides some evidence in support of my belief.

 

Noah

 

+1

Ever heard of Hays, a guy from the 1920's who was "a morality czar" re Hollywood. Here are 2 excerpts I found:

 

Women's clubs, church organizations, youth movements, and various reform groups demonstrated across the country, calling for censorship of Hollywood films. By 1922 the federal government and 36 states were considering enacting laws against the industry. Banks began to rescind movie companies' credit lines. The media fed the frenzy by blowing minor scandals out of proportion, with the encouragement of many European business interests. The European movie industry, decimated by the war, was eager to rebuild itself and break Hollywood's near-monopoly on feature films. Besides these attacks, the American film industry was concerned about declining attendance at movies and competition from radio. Nervous about the growing backlash toward the industry and fearing censorship, the movie industry decided to regulate itself.

 

And here is the actual prod code:

The Production Code

 

Main article: United States Motion Picture Production Code of 1930

The Production Code enumerated three "General Principles":

No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.

Correct standards of life, subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment, shall be presented.

Law, natural or human, shall not be ridiculed, nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.

Specific restrictions were spelled out as "Particular Applications" of these principles:

Nudity and suggestive dances were prohibited.

The ridicule of religion was forbidden, and ministers of religion were not to be represented as comic characters or villains.

The depiction of illegal drug use was forbidden, as well as the use of liquor, "when not required by the plot or for proper characterization."

Methods of crime (e.g. safe-cracking, arson, smuggling) were not to be explicitly presented.

References to alleged "sex perversion" (such as homosexuality) and venereal disease were forbidden, as were depictions of childbirth.

The language section banned various words and phrases that were considered to be offensive.

Murder scenes had to be filmed in a way that would discourage imitations in real life, and brutal killings could not be shown in detail.

"Revenge in modern times" was not to be justified.

The sanctity of marriage and the home had to be upheld.

"Pictures shall not infer that low forms of sex relationship are the accepted or common thing."

Adultery and illicit sex, although recognized as sometimes necessary to the plot, could not be explicit or justified and were not supposed to be presented as an attractive option.

Portrayals of miscegenation were forbidden.

"Scenes of Passion" were not to be introduced when not essential to the plot.

"Excessive and lustful kissing" was to be avoided, along with any other treatment that might "stimulate the lower and baser element."

The flag of the United States was to be treated respectfully, and the people and history of other nations were to be presented "fairly."

"Vulgarity", defined as "low, disgusting, unpleasant, though not necessarily evil, subjects" must be "subject to the dictates of good taste."

Capital punishment, "third-degree methods", cruelty to children and animals, prostitution and surgical operations were to be handled with similar sensitivity.

 

A friend who worked in Hollywood said the Hays morality codes that Hollywood conformed to, were LIFTED somewhere in the 1950's or 1960's.

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Do any of you want censorship? I assume not, yet, do any of you think there might be a link between porn, and uncensorded films and this apparent increase of heinous crimes?? Crazy man Ted Bundy claims porn was linked to his murderous behaviors.

I am no expert, I do not like censorship; I add this as food for thought.