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The Arrested Development of the Jazz Standard


Adan

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In the intro at least, without a doubt. (IMNSHO)

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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One of the many reasons jazz does absolutely nothing for me.

Then why are you reading, let alone posting in, this thread? :confused: Please leave those of us who do enjoy jazz alone.

'cos (if I have your permission?) I always find it interesting to see where other folks are 'coming from'.

 

Just because I'm not keen on something myself doesn't mean I don't want to understand other's viewpoints.

 

Is that ok ?

John.

 

some stuff on myspace

 

Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7

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Does anyone think Jarrett is playing too many notes?

 

In the intro at least, without a doubt. (IMNSHO)

 

Why play one note, when 30 will do ?

 

Oooohhh, are you guys gonna tell him? Can I watch, can I watch?

 

:eek:

 

:D:D:D

 

 

 

Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10
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Since the OP seemed to want this thread to die, I didn't want to start anything off topic anymore or even respond. So I'll just make this a one time comment.

 

I think you're revisionist too. When I learned Jazz piano, there's many things I had to work on so I went to the 'go to' player for that particular skill. When I wanted to learn swing, I went to Wynton Kelly. When I wanted to learn voicings, I went to Bill Evans. When I wanted to hear Bebop, I went to Bud Powell.

 

 

 

 

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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D-Bon, seeing that I posted something from Mehldau the first time, I'm sure you'd expect me to like it. Which I do a lot. I'll just say that I have been so fascinated with the Bach-like approach to the intro to All the Things You Are that I wanted to learn that style. In fact, I posted something to that effect a couple of years ago.

 

I was amused at the comments that some preferred when the trio came in and sounded more 'normal'. :) They play All the Things You Are in 7/4 :D Nothing normal about that.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Had to laugh at this...

 

Since the OP seemed to want this thread to die, I didn't want to start anything off topic anymore or even respond. So I'll just make this a one time comment.

 

D-Bon, seeing that I posted something from Mehldau the first time, I'm sure you'd expect me to like it. Which I do a lot. I'll just say that I have been so fascinated with the Bach-like approach to the intro to All the Things You Are that I wanted to learn that style. In fact, I posted something to that effect a couple of years ago.

 

I was amused at the comments that some preferred when the trio came in and sounded more 'normal'. :) They play All the Things You Are in 7/4 :D Nothing normal about that.

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D-Bon, seeing that I posted something from Mehldau the first time...

I meant to respond to that "River Man" clip but forgot. That might be my favorite of Brad's covers. He takes it "out" just enough.

 

The last time I saw him was in 2006 at the Vanguard (the same shows from which the live album released in 2009 was culled) and it was the first time seeing him that I was unmoved by his playing. He did a 20-minute cover of "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden that went nowhere. Subsequently, he's released Highway Rider and the live solo album, both of which I've enjoyed.

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Revisionism is a word I half understand, and I am lucky if my understanding of ANYTHING is "half" ( ha ha half assed ) . Jazzwee, I was not being nasty with you.. I am asking you to think about what I am saying.

I think when I talk about jazz... I too am revising.

Talking is not music. And talking about things that are separated from us by decades or a century, is really stretching it.

The longer I live, the more I see ( this is related to the topic of standards and their lack of development - whether or not OP wants this to die ) how inaccurate news people, commentators on the culture are. Speaking authoritatively about things that are very very distant from them.

All men are NOT created equally in regard to talent. My talent for describing music is obviously not very good. But it is so difficult to talk about something like this topic.

To discuss standards, I think one needs to at the very least LOVE them. Is it acceptable to use the unscientific, old fashioned term LOVE? Just akskin.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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D-Bon, seeing that I posted something from Mehldau the first time...

I meant to respond to that "River Man" clip but forgot. That might be my favorite of Brad's covers. He takes it "out" just enough.

 

The last time I saw him was in 2006 at the Vanguard (the same shows from which the live album released in 2009 was culled) and it was the first time seeing him that I was unmoved by his playing. He did a 20-minute cover of "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden that went nowhere. Subsequently, he's released Highway Rider and the live solo album, both of which I've enjoyed.

 

Some years back, I posted some comments on his virtuousity on River Man. He's one of the few players that have put a new meaning to Ambidextrous. On a trio version of River Man (I can try to find it later), he does this LH/RH simultaneous solo thing that just boggled my mind, especially at the time. After many years, I started to realize that he's able to shift to ostinato patterns (though varying), that it must give him some time to think and transfer the solo to the other hand.

 

That to me was the beginning of the idea of the Bach-like solo you posted on All The Things You Are. Fun to watch but perhaps useless for me to shoot for as something to figure out on my own. :)

 

I guess each jazz player chooses to stand out in some way and Brad's uniqueness has been in Ambidexterity and Odd Meters. Also note that his syncopation style came from his teacher Fred Hersch. Since I listen to a lot of Fred Hersch, I began to notice the similarity (Hersch has a unique syncopation style that doesn't sound afro-cuban based).

 

He's unique to me and I like the variation he adds to my jazz listening. I've seen him only on the Highway Rider concert earlier this year. Awesome concert but not enough piano...

 

One of these days, I'll figure out that two-handed solo stuff. I try limited amounts of that but my LH needs a LOT of work. :) Great as a solo piano style though. Very different.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Does anyone think Jarrett is playing too many notes?

 

I know you mean the question sincerely.

 

The simple answer is no.

 

Because Keith can destroy you with just a single note, and he can destroy you with an amazing ballad. And I know that he never plays technically for the sake of playing technically, he's always ridiculously musical.

 

So no, he's not playing too many notes. He's employing a texture. It happens to be a texture of zippy fast 32nd notes, but he's not showing off or wanking. He doesn't wank.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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Does anyone think Jarrett is playing too many notes?

 

I know you mean the question sincerely.

 

The simple answer is no.

 

Because Keith can destroy you with just a single note, and he can destroy you with an amazing ballad. And I know that he never plays technically for the sake of playing technically, he's always ridiculously musical.

 

So no, he's not playing too many notes. He's employing a texture. It happens to be a texture of zippy fast 32nd notes, but he's not showing off or wanking. He doesn't wank.

This is a valid assessment, and I agree (especially that the speed is a conscious choice Keith is making, not wanking) -- but it's still too many notes for me in the context of this song. Honestly, I'm more taken with Jack's musicality in this song than Keith's. Jack is playing fast, too, but it's just so tasty.

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Do you have his Elegiac Cycle album? He's definitely referencing classical music on it.

 

I have ALL his albums :D and missRT thinks I'm being influenced by the wrong type of player...But hey, he's different and I like it.

 

He admits that he's influenced by classical more and more lately. I think he said Brahms. So I started listening to Brahms to see if I get it. Unfortunately I don't get it so maybe I need to understand more what I should listen for in Brahms.

 

I think there's a possibility that Mehldau could be reaching a non-straight-ahead-jazz audience, particularly with Highway Rider so that could be good for him. I actually prefer something with more piano though I really enjoyed the Highway Rider concert. Maybe it's the part of me that's always wanting to learn.

 

A lot of pianists on Youtube try to copy him. Look at the different attempts by many on 'Resignation'. Maybe it'll be some sort of pianist's 'Standard' (token return to topic :) )

 

By the way, lest I be blasted again as having the wrong influences in jazz, this is just one of my many favorite players. Right now I'm in Bud Powell mode...

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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I find that KJ mixes two styles of playing. Harmonic Texture + Melodic. Some players focus mostly on the Harmonic texture. I think that overall, KJ is one that has a heavier proportion of melodic but lately I've been more aware of the 'switch' in his modes. If one listens to this switching, then one could copy his style a little. A lot of his 'Harmonic' side is actually fast bebop.

 

 

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Being the OP doesn't give me any special powers. Do what you want. Much of the last 2-3 pages has been off-topic, but perhaps it is inevitable that any thread about jazz will lead to wide-ranging discussion of what's good and bad in jazz. Jazz itself should have some measure of chaos in it, so why expect anything different from the discussion of it.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Does anyone think Jarrett is playing too many notes?

 

I know you mean the question sincerely.

 

The simple answer is no.

 

Because Keith can destroy you with just a single note, and he can destroy you with an amazing ballad. And I know that he never plays technically for the sake of playing technically, he's always ridiculously musical.

 

So no, he's not playing too many notes. He's employing a texture. It happens to be a texture of zippy fast 32nd notes, but he's not showing off or wanking. He doesn't wank.

This is a valid assessment, and I agree (especially that the speed is a conscious choice Keith is making, not wanking) -- but it's still too many notes for me in the context of this song. Honestly, I'm more taken with Jack's musicality in this song than Keith's. Jack is playing fast, too, but it's just so tasty.

 

All good. Preferences is preferences. Jack is amazing too bygummit.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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Being the OP doesn't give me any special powers. Do what you want. Much of the last 2-3 pages has been off-topic, but perhaps it is inevitable that any thread about jazz will lead to wide-ranging discussion of what's good and bad in jazz. Jazz itself should have some measure of chaos in it, so why expect anything different from the discussion of it.

 

Well glad to have your permission sir! :)

 

It's called 'playing outside' :) So, no chance of staying inside topics either.

Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1

 

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Was this the end of standards ???

 

1971 - "La Fiesta" - Chick Corea

1971 "Spain" - Chick Corea

1971 - "Crystal Silence" - Chick Corea

1972 "Little Sunflower" - Freddie Hubbard

1972 "Red Clay" - Freddie Hubbard

1972 "Waters of March" Jobim

1972 - "This Masquerade" Leon Russel

1973 "Chameleon" - Herbie Hancock

1973 - "500 Miles High" - Chick Corea

1973 "Mr. Magic" Grover Washington Jr.

1973 "Send in the Clowns" - Stephen Sondheim

1975 - "Anna Maria" - Wayne Shorter

1975 - "Modadji" - Dave Gruisin

1976 - "Shaker Song" - Spyro Gyra

1977 - "Começar de Novo (The Island)" - Ivan Lins

1977 - "Sea Journey" - Chick Corea

1977 "Birdland" - Weather Report

1978 - "Phase Dance" - Pat Metheny

1979 - "Morning Dance" - Spyro Gyra

1980 - "Three Views Of A Secret" - Jaco Pastorius

1980 - "Make Me A Memory" - Grover Washington Jr.

1981 - "Just The Two Of Us" - Grover Washington Jr.

1982 - "Mimosa" - Jimmy Smith

1983 - "James" - Pat Metheny

1986 - "Chan's Song" - Herbie Hancock

1986 - "Got A Match" - Chick Corea

1987 - "Nothing Personal" - Don Grolnick

 

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find over 750 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas

 

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Why don't any of these lists include "Pure Imagination"?

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Why play one note, when 30 will do ?

You don't GET jazz. whether one note or thirty- you don't get it.
Until the day dawns when you actually LOVE something, I submit that you don't truly "get it"

You've sort-of answered yourself there, because no - I don't LOVE jazz (well at least that type of jazz)...

 

so how should I be, by your criteria, expected to 'get it'?

 

Your mind is not ready for jazz

 

Completely out-of-order, & uncalled for.

 

You swept into this forum, what, all of 2 months ago?, and you don't know the slightest thing about me.

 

So how do you justify making condescending assumptions like that ?

 

FYI - I started in music aged 12 (35 years ago), learning flute & piano.

Went to college, aged 18, for 3 years, to train & qualify as a piano tuner / technician,

and have worked as a full-time professional in that field ever since then.

 

My line of work has meant that I have worked for & with every standard of musician

 

up to international class, who play music in every conceivable style.

 

 

I do not require your 'advice' on what my mind is or isn't ready for, thank you very much.

 

 

I am quite capable of deciding for myself.

John.

 

some stuff on myspace

 

Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7

Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.

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