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clone>ventilator>preamp gain stage question


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Where's it going after the Speakeasy?

 

Coincidentally, I tried the C1-> Vent -> Motion Sound Pro 145 today with the Vent brake on to see how the overdrive worked with the MS145 and it sounded fabulous. Plus the vent's distance, overdrive and balance knobs all continued to allow further tweaking even with the Vent's brake on.

 

Will put the Speakeasy in the chain tomorrow and try that out with Leslies and stationary speaker and see what I come up with...

 

Maybe call Steve Hayes at Speakeasy?

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No need for the Speakeasy preamp with a Ventilator.. C1>Vent>amp/monitor.. that's it baby.. I retired my speakeasy as soon as I got the Ventilator.. I only keep it around because it allows me to interface with my real leslies if I choose to.. otherwise I would sell it.

Craig MacDonald

Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator

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No need for the Speakeasy preamp with a Ventilator.. C1>Vent>amp/monitor.. that's it baby.. I retired my speakeasy as soon as I got the Ventilator.. I only keep it around because it allows me to interface with my real leslies if I choose to.. otherwise I would sell it.

Craig MacDonald

Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator

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Although I've yet to experiment with this, I suspect that switching the tubes to NOS in the Speakeasy might also be of some benefit... Remember (I think) that that the Speakeasy was intended to replicate the pre-amp tubes in the Hammond itself...

 

But then again I am one of those guys who still believes that vinyl sounds better than CD's, tube receivers/stereo sounds better than solid state... My ears get tired pretty quickly ("fatigue") listening to clonewheels without tubes in the chain... Ditto for CD's... Never get tired of spinning vinyl through my all tube receiver... never get tired of an A100 through an all tube Leslie 145... can go all day with them... no ringing... no ear fatigue

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Preamp coloration is OK but power amp coloration is where it's at for the overdriven leslie sound.

 

The Speakeasy product that provides that is not their preamp product but their AMA product (which also contains the preamp).

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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Preamp coloration is OK but power amp coloration is where it's at for the overdriven leslie sound.

 

The Speakeasy product that provides that is not their preamp product but their AMA product (which also contains the preamp).

 

Do you have one?

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Why yes, I do.

 

The Decimator, otherwise known as the Spinning Wall of Leslie Death, features 1200 watts of clean power being fed by the AMA.

 

http://hotrodmotm.com/sounds/roadbox/decimator.jpg

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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Ah yes I remember that awesome rig (!!!) quite well when courting with Speakeasy back in pre-Vent days, and wondered in recent years what became of it as Leslie sims have since progressed.

 

So that said, is the Wall still intact, and how does the overdrive (leaving aside the Wall of air Leslie) compare to the Ventilator?

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Its useful to have gain control after the Vent in case you need to send a lead boosted signal to the PA in the event you are buried when trying to solo and your expression pedal is already maxed. If all gain control was before the Vent you would affect the overdrive sound or push the Vent into clipping. I'm not trying to reopen the stage volume debate or start a stupid loud guitar player thread, i'm just saying sometimes you need a nitro boost to get you back on top. I use an ART tube MP studio for this. Works great. So it goes XK > Vent > ART preamp. I guess you would need a stereo preamp with a ganged volume control if you were sending a stereo signal to the PA.

 

As for gain staging, Set the Vent Hi/Low switch to LO. Pull out all drawbars on the clone and turn up the master on the clone untill the Vent clip light flickers. Turn down the clone master volume knob a notch. Now set your post Vent preamp up with optimum input levels. The post Vent preamp output levels will be set according to what is next in the chain. I suggest leaving yourself some available gain when giving your levels to the soundman. Its nice to have 6 to 20 dB of secret gain in your pocket.

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So that said, is the Wall still intact, and how does the overdrive (leaving aside the Wall of air Leslie) compare to the Ventilator?

 

Yes, the wall is still intact. I have never had my hands on a vent, but my impression is that the vent does a credible job. For pushing distortion into Jon Lord territory however, the AMA happily goes there while the vent kind of breaks down.

 

I have some sound clips up on my Decimator page at the bottom, using a Stage Classic.

 

http://hotrodmotm.com/sounds/roadbox/

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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As for gain staging, Set the Vent Hi/Low switch to LO. Pull out all drawbars on the clone and turn up the master on the clone untill the Vent clip light flickers. Turn down the clone master volume knob a notch. Now set your post Vent preamp up with optimum input levels. The post Vent preamp output levels will be set according to what is next in the chain. I suggest leaving yourself some available gain when giving your levels to the soundman. Its nice to have 6 to 20 dB of secret gain in your pocket.

 

Thanks, this helps.

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I run mine Nord Electro2->Speakeasy->Vent. I prefer to have the ability to fine-tune my levels and EQ pre-Vent, to nail the sweet spot of the Vent's excellent overdrive without messing with the Nord's master volume. This is almost always as part of a multi-board rig, so if I ever wanted post-Vent gain control I could get it at my mixer, but honestly I almost never do.

 

On the Speakeasy when running into the vent, I run the "keyboard" tone stack (rather than the "clone" one), and run both tone controls wide open. When using the Speakeasy to drive my 142 or 122, I usually roll of the high knob to about 75% and use the "clone" tone stack. Not sure how many of those they've sold with the switchable tone stacks but it makes a big difference for me. If I couldn't switch to the "keyboard" tone stack I would probably just run straight into the Vent.

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......Coincidentally, I tried the C1-> Vent -> Motion Sound Pro 145 today with the Vent brake on to see how the overdrive worked with the MS145 and it sounded fabulous. Plus the vent's distance, overdrive and balance knobs all continued to allow further tweaking even with the Vent's brake on....

 

Could you elaborate a little more on this? (like what kind of tweaks are in the sound with the brake on and how does it change the character of the 145's sound compaired to not using the vent).

Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK-1 + Ventilator, Korg Triton. 2 JBL Eon 510's.

 

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......Coincidentally, I tried the C1-> Vent -> Motion Sound Pro 145 today with the Vent brake on to see how the overdrive worked with the MS145 and it sounded fabulous. Plus the vent's distance, overdrive and balance knobs all continued to allow further tweaking even with the Vent's brake on....

 

Could you elaborate a little more on this? (like what kind of tweaks are in the sound with the brake on and how does it change the character of the 145's sound compaired to not using the vent).

 

I'm not in front of my rig right now but if I recall correctly, adjusting the Vent's distance sounds as described - like adjusting the distance of the mics or depth of the Leslie, even when using the Motion Sound's leslie (and the Vent brake on).

 

Adjusting the balance seems to adjust the brightness, again even with the Vent brake on.

 

I had not expected that balance and distance would do anything with the brake on but was pleasantly surprised.

 

Adjusting the overdrive is as expected (adjusts overdrive), but better than the MS145 pre-amp provides on its own.

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I tried the C1-> Vent -> Motion Sound Pro 145 today with the Vent brake on

 

Not arguing with you here, but that seems kinda strange to do...

 

I remember experimenting with my E2/Vent setup a while ago, and setting the E2 to "stop" and running that through the Vent. Not good. It was like sending a Leslie through a Leslie. The tone just seemed wrong. Granted, the sound from the E2 wasn't "rotating", but a signal through a Leslie on brake is still being colored and shaped by the horn and rotor, not just the amp.

Stuff and things.
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I tried the C1-> Vent -> Motion Sound Pro 145 today with the Vent brake on

 

Not arguing with you here, but that seems kinda strange to do...

 

I remember experimenting with my E2/Vent setup a while ago, and setting the E2 to "stop" and running that through the Vent. Not good. It was like sending a Leslie through a Leslie. The tone just seemed wrong. Granted, the sound from the E2 wasn't "rotating", but a signal through a Leslie on brake is still being colored and shaped by the horn and rotor, not just the amp.

 

I tried the Vent - MS145 experiment just to see how well I could tap into the Vent's overdrive, but That said, I'll give that set up another "spin" asap and reassess given your comments. Perhaps it depends on "where" the Vent stops?

 

I'm surprised that you would get that Leslie through a Leslie ("warble" I call it) with the NE2 on stop. By the sounds of it, it was either on slow, or had reverb on it.

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I'm surprised that you would get that Leslie through a Leslie ("warble" I call it) with the NE2 on stop. By the sounds of it, it was either on slow, or had reverb on it.

 

It was on stop, there was no "warble"...

 

It was the sound of a stopped Leslie through a Leslie, which sounds much different from a dry, "non-Leslied" signal through a Leslie.

 

I'm not saying your setup doesn't sound good, but in my case (different equipment, same concept) it sounded bad.

Stuff and things.
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I'm surprised that you would get that Leslie through a Leslie ("warble" I call it) with the NE2 on stop. By the sounds of it, it was either on slow, or had reverb on it.

 

It was on stop, there was no "warble"...

 

It was the sound of a stopped Leslie through a Leslie, which sounds much different from a dry, "non-Leslied" signal through a Leslie.

 

I'm not saying your setup doesn't sound good, but in my case (different equipment, same concept) it sounded bad.

 

No offence taken btw - just a wee bit puzzling, and worthy of further experimentation. Or maybe I was off my rocker yesterday...

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I tried the C1-> Vent -> Motion Sound Pro 145 today with the Vent brake on

 

Not arguing with you here, but that seems kinda strange to do...

 

I remember experimenting with my E2/Vent setup a while ago, and setting the E2 to "stop" and running that through the Vent. Not good. It was like sending a Leslie through a Leslie. The tone just seemed wrong. Granted, the sound from the E2 wasn't "rotating", but a signal through a Leslie on brake is still being colored and shaped by the horn and rotor, not just the amp.

 

That is why I returned my vent over a year ago (could kick myself now!). Did not like the sound of my (now sold) NE2 through it. I think the NE2 relies more on the amp model of the leslie sim than on raw organ tone to deliver it's 'sound' (and the raw organ tone was not good), hence why the two units clash.

Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK-1 + Ventilator, Korg Triton. 2 JBL Eon 510's.

 

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I'm surprised that you would get that Leslie through a Leslie ("warble" I call it) with the NE2 on stop. By the sounds of it, it was either on slow, or had reverb on it.

 

It was on stop, there was no "warble"...

 

It was the sound of a stopped Leslie through a Leslie, which sounds much different from a dry, "non-Leslied" signal through a Leslie.

 

I'm not saying your setup doesn't sound good, but in my case (different equipment, same concept) it sounded bad.

 

No offence taken btw - just a wee bit puzzling, and worthy of further experimentation. Or maybe I was off my rocker yesterday...

 

You guys doing this experiment need to make sure the Guit/Keys switch is set to Keys or the amp simulation is bypassed.

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(and the raw organ tone was not good), hence why the two units clash.

Just for the sake of clarity...

 

I was talking about having the Leslie sim ON, but the rotors stopped, and sending that through the Vent. Thus, the "stopped Leslie through a Leslie" tone.

 

This is different from having the Leslie sim OFF (raw organ tone) and sending that through the Vent.

 

Either way, I didn't like the combo. Sold the Vent and now I'm using VB3, controlled by the E2.

Stuff and things.
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