ITGITC Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Nord Electro 3 is better. And where have you been? All this discussion, when it could have been finalized long ago if you had just spoken up. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Sherinian Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I should say IMHO...Electro 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polkahero Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 I should say IMHO...Electro 3 This guy probably know what he's talking about, right guys? Of course Derek runs his Nord through a real Leslie according to his latest Keyboard Magazine interview! '57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, Leslie 251, Leslie 330, Leslie 770, Leslie 145, Hammond PR-40 Trek II UC-1A Alesis QSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Honestly both sound really good. You should focus on the pros and cons of both. Pros of SK1: - multi-timbral - real drawbars - better organ - better Leslie sim - better action (my opinion, but I like it better than my XK3) - the pipe organ sounds kick ass Pros of Electro3 - better Wurli - more downloadable sounds - less cluttered interface Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Sherinian Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 It is a serious design flaw on Nord's part to not have real drawbars...but, to me it sounds better than the other clones. Of course, a real Leslie is essential. Leslies Simulators are CHEESOLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Sherinian Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You know what- you only live on this planet one time- if you are going to play organ sounds- buy a real B3 and Leslie. Do you want on your tombstone...."He was a good player, but never among the greats, because he was too cheap to buy the essential tools to compete with the best."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I always wonder why people still give Nord a hard time regarding the drawbars - When I'm playing LH bass I don't have much time to be pushing and pulling anyway. That's what presets are for - either on a clone or the real deal. I spent 10 days at Dr Lonnie's house playing duets for hours and I rarely saw him mess with the drawbars. Chorus On/Off, Leslie Stop/Fast - yes. B preset to Bb Preset - all the time. But drawbars - rarely. I've gotten really good with the drawbuttons on the odd ocassion I need to. I use 4 fingers to go from: 888888888 to 800008888 in a flash! Darren Darren www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_D_in_MD Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You know what- you only live on this planet one time- if you are going to play organ sounds- buy a real B3 and Leslie. The issue for many people is more than just cost--it's the schlep factor. You probably have roadies to load in your rig; most of us are on our own. There was a great photo the other day in an advertisement that I can't find anymore: A young woman carrying a lightweight clone past a beefy guy trying to manhandle his end of the B3. Yamaha P2 acoustic, Yamaha P120 digital, Nord Electro 3HP, QSC K10. FOR SALE: Nord Electro 2-61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Amanda Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Do you want on your tombstone...."He was a good player, but never among the greats, because he was too cheap to buy the essential tools to compete with the best."? I want pepperoni and onions on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Åslund Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You know what- you only live on this planet one time- if you are going to play organ sounds- buy a real B3 and Leslie. The issue for many people is more than just cost--it's the schlep factor. You probably have roadies to load in your rig; most of us are on our own. +1 I'd also love to gig with a B3 and Leslie, but 1) I don't have the money to buy one (cost in Sweden for B3 + Leslie is around 9-10 000 $) 2) No-one in either of my bands (including myself) would like to move a rig like that, and 3) At least one of my three rehearsal spaces wouldn't have the room for a B3. My entire rig now consists of a NS2 sw73, a Ventilator, a Danelectro Springking reverb, a small Yamaha mixer, EV ZXa1 (well, arriving soon) speakers, plus stand. Total cost, about half as much as a B3 / Leslie combo, total weight about half as much as the Leslie alone... If I'd win a lottery I might get a B3 and Leslie, get a bigger rehearsal space, buy a van and hire a couple roadies to move the 'ol organ, but 'til then I'll keep my clonewheel rig. I also want to say - there's no "cheesola" about the sound of the Ventilator. Oh, I should also add - I'm a weekend warrior, not a professional musician. Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...! 🙄 main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I gigged with a B3. I still own 3 organs (B3, E and ,,, don't laugh, a B3000). Gigging with one can often suck. Last week I had 3 gigs. Let's see how it would have went. Wednesday night - The only way on stage was 4 feet of narrow stairs. That would have sucked. Friday night - The club is a converted movie theater. The back doors were big but the side doors to the stage were very narrow. That probably would have sucked. Would have had to turn the organ on it's end. But at least the entire load in was on ground level. Saturday - Very easy load in and out. All would have been good. Suck rate = 67%. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You know what- you only live on this planet one time- if you are going to play organ sounds- buy a real B3 and Leslie. Do you want on your tombstone...."He was a good player, but never among the greats, because he was too cheap to buy the essential tools to compete with the best."? Been there, done that and I still do it from time to time. As much as my preference lies with playing my B3/122 (or any of my other consoles), the practical consideration of using a clone is simply part of the reality of gigging for "most" of us. Lack of stage space and ease of transportation often trump the benefits of bringing out the B3 (as I really can't say "ease of setup", since moving aside, a B3/122 gig is the easiest setup imaginable, next to hooking up a typical gig rig). That said, under the right conditions, for certain gigs . . . . I'll always play my B3/122 over any of my clones, any day (and twice on sunday). If only all my gigs were like that. Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 It is a serious design flaw on Nord's part to not have real drawbars...but, to me it sounds better than the other clones. Of course, a real Leslie is essential. Leslies Simulators are CHEESOLA. You might try spreading a little Ventilator on your next cracker. As someone who DIDNT have the luxury of roadies for a lot of my playing career, and still hossed leslies around 20 years, I can honestly say that the Ventilator allowed me to (at least for now) retire my leslies. Not only does the Ventilator sound great in mono (unbelievably great!), but in stereo its a beast, and has the added benefit of volume control (you know how after an hour of throttling the leslie with a rock band, you always need a little more volume, especially in the monitor, and you just never seem to have enough? Not a problem with the Ventilator), and it retains its sonic integrity in a band mix, unlike a micd leslie through P.A. (How many times have you seen another band play, and you hear the organ *if youre lucky!* and think damn, that organ sounds like ass?) Granted, these problems arent as great in jazz or trio settings, but in real rock settings, and even most loud blues settings, they can be real issues. I like B3ers solution of running a leslie on stage for his own monitoring, yet sending a direct signal to the Ventilator for the PA. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I should say IMHO...Electro 3 Sk1 has better raw Hammond tone (and drawbars!). Nord has better overdrive. Nord Electro 3: hands down, the most cumbersome, handicapping patch selection method. (And I'm a Nord fan.) The Electro 2's patch select scheme was "back to the future (of 1985!)" design, but at least it worked. Try getting from A1 to B56 on the Electro 3 after the chorus and into the bridge! Oh...and the clavinet on the SK1 smokes the Nord. But here's hoping with all the work Nord has done on the pianos, that the clav finally gets its overdue upgrade. (AND NORD, I BESEECH YOU: PLEASE GO BACK TO A TRUE AUTO-WAH LIKE THAT ON THE ELECTRO 2!) But in all honesty, you cant go wrong with either machine. Both sound great, and are far cries from what we had to play just 10 years ago. The Nord definitely has a more elegant and intuitive design, and have done a fantastic job of extending the life of their instruments for consumers thanks to OS updates and library downloads, as well as an easy to replace or spare power cord, but Hammond has made a huge leap forward with the SK1. And having the ability for pianos on one manual, and organ on the other (on the SK2), is going to make life a LOT easier and a lot more enjoyable for gigging musicians that take that route. Competition is good, taste is subjective. And maybe we can all be right for once! Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 It is a serious design flaw on Nord's part to not have real drawbars...but, to me it sounds better than the other clones. Of course, a real Leslie is essential. Leslies Simulators are CHEESOLA. You might try spreading a little Ventilator on your next cracker. As someone who DIDNT have the luxury of roadies for a lot of my playing career, and still hossed leslies around 20 years, I can honestly say that the Ventilator allowed me to (at least for now) retire my leslies. Not only does the Ventilator sound great in mono (unbelievably great!), but in stereo its a beast, and has the added benefit of volume control (you know how after an hour of throttling the leslie with a rock band, you always need a little more volume, especially in the monitor, and you just never seem to have enough? Not a problem with the Ventilator), and it retains its sonic integrity in a band mix, unlike a micd leslie through P.A. (How many times have you seen another band play, and you hear the organ *if youre lucky!* and think damn, that organ sounds like ass?) Granted, these problems arent as great in jazz or trio settings, but in real rock settings, and even most loud blues settings, they can be real issues. I like B3ers solution of running a leslie on stage for his own monitoring, yet sending a direct signal to the Ventilator for the PA. These are some excellent and very timely points for me regarding Leslies and rock mixes. I'm dealing with some leslie issues since we have been doing some live recording with direct board feeds and the leslie is getting lost. It is weird. Last week we do the Abraxas arrangement of Black Magic Woman into Gypsy Queen into Oye Como Va. The recorded organ was fine till Oye then it got lost. I'm sending the leslie to the snake right along with the rest of the keys submix coming off my Yamaha board. I think a pedal would really simplify mixing my keys because I don't have to compensate for stage level in creating a balanced mix. I could probably sell a 860 and buy a vent and have some change left over. Here I ran the Leslie through Channel 1 and 2. If I get a Vent and the S90XS can let me retire my rack synths I should be able to simplify this mess. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/DSCF0060.jpg Thanks "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 To be precise, the SK's do not have "real drawbars". They sort of look like drawbars, but they are really slotted faders like on the Numa. For real drawbars you need to go the XK route, the Mojo, or a real Hammond console... That being said, the faders on the SK is sure an improvement over the Electro... But again, being limited to only one set of drawbars, especially on a two manual organ, is severely limiting IMHO. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solpincus Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I find myself asking THIS question : 10 years from now, if clonewheels are still being made ( in hardware form , that is) what will be more prevailing : the drawbutton configuration of the Nords, or the 'fader' style ' drawbars' of the SK series ? robert w nuckels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Drawbars. Legend Soul 261, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_D_in_MD Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There was a great photo the other day in an advertisement that I can't find anymore: A young woman carrying a lightweight clone past a beefy guy trying to manhandle his end of the B3. Found the picture again, on the front page of the Hammond web site: http://hammondorganco.com/images/stories/slide/slide_big-img1.jpg Now *that's* good advertising! Yamaha P2 acoustic, Yamaha P120 digital, Nord Electro 3HP, QSC K10. FOR SALE: Nord Electro 2-61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I find myself asking THIS question : 10 years from now, if clonewheels are still being made ( in hardware form , that is) what will be more prevailing : the drawbutton configuration of the Nords, or the 'fader' style ' drawbars' of the SK series ? I'd say that the choice will be between faders/drawbars vs. touchscreen controls. Nobody but Nord uses drawbuttons, most people see them as a drawback. People buy fader add-ons for Nords, no one asks for button add-ons for other clones. But as touchscreens keep getting cheaper, I wouldn't be surprised to see more touchscreen implementations... which are still a compromise compared to real drawbars. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There was a great photo the other day in an advertisement that I can't find anymore: A young woman carrying a lightweight clone past a beefy guy trying to manhandle his end of the B3. Found the picture again, on the front page of the Hammond web site: http://hammondorganco.com/images/stories/slide/slide_big-img1.jpg Now *that's* good advertising! Is that Scott May? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronarchy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Fellow keyboard players, New member here! I'd like to re-hash this old thread since the Nord Electro 4d has been released which incorporates drawbars instead of the button configuration on the Elecro 3. I'm looking to get a good clonewheel organ. Torn between the Hammond Sk1/2, Nord Electro 4d, Roland VR-09, etc. I'd also consider the Nord C2d but I'm not sure if I want to break the bank that much. What are your opinions? To me, I think you can get a pretty killer sound out of any of the boards I mentioned, but I'm wondering if anyone has gigged with them for a while and has some feedback. How does the action feel on them compared to a real B3? Also, what do you all think about going with one manual instead of double manual? (SK1 vs SK2)? The only advantage I can see to having two manuals is that you can have two different drawbar settings for each. The SK2 runs almost 1K more than the SK1, is that worth it? Any advice is appreciated, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Welcome to forum! You may want to mention what your needs for non-organ sounds are, budget, and use of instrument? Also, check out the "READ ME-Searching This Forum" thread to search for the many comments about each of these instruments that have already been posted. There's a ton of great information here, as well very helpful folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I prefer the SK-1 for it's easier to swing on action and jazzier Jimmy Smith tone. Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I wonder what Derek has to say about it:) Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanC Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This question brings up something I hadn't thought about, but is it possible on the SK2 to play one of the extra voices on one manual and Hammond or another of the extra voices on the other manual? Stan Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1 Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This question brings up something I hadn't thought about, but is it possible on the SK2 to play one of the extra voices on one manual and Hammond or another of the extra voices on the other manual? You can play one of the extra voices on either manual and organ on both (or one or the other). You cannot play two extra voices at once. This means you can, for example, play piano and layer the organ underneath on the same manual or play organ separately on another manual. I still say the SK wins vs the Nord E4. The Hammond sound is better. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 You can play an Extra Voice on either manual with organ on the other. You cannot play 2 Extra voices at the same time in any arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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