Theo Verelst Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 To find out if a group of people wanting to master a subject without being the geniuses if they don't get to a serious honest theory have at least the courtesy to assess if they find the collective solution of the problem impossible or too much a waste of time and/or effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 As great a player, and innovator as Pat Metheny is, he either won't or can't ( I have no clue, and my apologies to Him and all who like him ) play in a more traditional manner I've heard Metheney play like that. He doesn't often, but he can do it in spades. I wish I could remember any specific recordings. I know who turned me onto them, though, so if you want to know just say so and I'll hunt down an old friend. I think it was more Charlie Christian than Wes M, but who's spitting that hair? Really? That is great news. Quick story. I never much liked the great Metheny for a long time. Then one day I played with a "disciple" of his, another guy whp was very differnt from guys I am used to. I thought I wouldn't like playing with him, but what a pleasure to be wrong. The disciple taught e a lesson. Shortly afer that I had a Metheny break throigh. nice. But I still want to hear tis recording. ! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 To find out if a group of people wanting to master a subject without being the geniuses if they don't get to a serious honest theory have at least the courtesy to assess if they find the collective solution of the problem impossible or too much a waste of time and/or effort. I am not the best at expressing my thoughts clearly.. and in your post's case, I am also having trouble understanding your point; might you rephrase it? Thank you. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Good luck with that. Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 To find out if a group of people wanting to master a subject without being the geniuses if they don't get to a serious honest theory have at least the courtesy to assess if they find the collective solution of the problem impossible or too much a waste of time and/or effort. I am not the best at expressing my thoughts clearly.. and in your post's case, I am also having trouble understanding your point; might you rephrase it? Thank you. I've used an online sentence scrambler to try and decipher Theo's post. Pick one of the ones below. group much the and/or courtesy being at waste subject without the problem too of to they To the a geniuses least of wanting effort. they out a collective assess serious to solution if the to or a people have impossible don't if a find of if time master honest find get theory don't wanting get to the problem to of time if the to being a master find serious out people or honest assess least impossible a a courtesy at of if solution subject if the the group geniuses have without of theory and/or they find they much collective too effort. waste To a master the at if to a time being group much or out the if serious people courtesy least to geniuses subject too have collective find the they impossible problem a effort don't assess To theory solution of waste to and/or find the of honest without wanting they get of a a if courtesy effort waste of without find to have problem too the to and/or a find wanting out the of assess theory don't least if impossible honest if a much they master at To or geniuses group being subject they of the to serious a solution get the if people a time collective Any of those makes about as much sense as the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I have often wondered if Theo is using language translator software. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I have often wondered if Theo is using language translator software. Theo's KC Posting Software: http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/580903/580903,1293055773,1/stock-photo-random-collection-of-different-words-and-word-forms-on-magnetic-tiles-68371420.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Pat Metheny can, and sometimes does , play in a more traditional style, often when sitting in with others. I remember a Grammy appearance like that. And please stop quoting Theo! Some of us go out of our way to avoid his posts! I rarely find them comprehensible and wish to save those brain cycles for something more useful than trying to decipher them. Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 To find out if a group of people wanting to master a subject without being the geniuses if they don't get to a serious honest theory have at least the courtesy to assess if they find the collective solution of the problem impossible or too much a waste of time and/or effort. Ahh Theo Verelst they are picking on you.. boys will be boys! I am not sure what you meant. I can only guess 'Mastering jazz without being a genius'? hmmm.... /"waste of time"? hmmm/ "solution to a problem"? hmmm hmmm hmmm Well I can answer in stages There are few geniuses I think the word loses meaning if people can elect to become genius. Genius is a great aptitude for a subject . The more love of the subject, appetite for a topic, the more a person is apt to spend a grrat deal of focussed time voraciously absorbing that subject/ topic. Eg a youngster jazz genius will find he has an unusually large capacity to sit at a piano for endless hours, 8 hours minimum- Just THAT ability, leaving imagination, rhythm, perfect pitch, etc out of the reckoning , just the abilty to sit down at a piano for a 100 hours in a ten day period, that alone will catapult a person into a genius category, assuming they are talented. Genius is mostly hard focussed enthusiastic work. THAT ability to work... eg play a B major scale for 5 hours... to me that is a manifestation of genius. For the rest of us, we take it where ever our aptitude, our interest, our "genius" takes us, whether 3 hours a week of practice or 15 hours a day. But quitting, is foolish, and only justified if you have been forced to practice and really dislike the topic You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Pat Metheny can, and sometimes does , play in a more traditional style, often when sitting in with others. I remember a Grammy appearance like that. And please stop quoting Theo! Some of us go out of our way to avoid his posts! I rarely find them comprehensible and wish to save those brain cycles for something more useful than trying to decipher them. 1. Really, I don't suppose Pat M has ever discussed the topic? 2. I am new here, I am giving this Theo Verelst the benefit of the doubt!! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Just THAT ability, leaving imagination, rhythm, perfect pitch, etc out of the reckoning , just the abilty to sit down at a piano for a 100 hours in a ten day period, that alone will catapult a person into a genius category, assuming they are talented. This is like saying "anyone can get rich if they work hard, assuming they have a huge inheritance". When Thomas Alva Edison said: Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration. He was giving too little credit to the inspiration. Which is probably a good reason why Tesla kicked his intellectual rear end! Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I'm not really reading all this stuff anymore but I did see some say Pat and more traditional music while skimming. Which brings me to my favorite Pat album playing traditional. - Joshua Redman's first album - WISH. AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Just THAT ability, leaving imagination, rhythm, perfect pitch, etc out of the reckoning , just the abilty to sit down at a piano for a 100 hours in a ten day period, that alone will catapult a person into a genius category, assuming they are talented. This is like saying "anyone can get rich if they work hard, assuming they have a huge inheritance". When Thomas Alva Edison said: Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration. He was giving too little credit to the inspiration. Which is probably a good reason why Tesla kicked his intellectual rear end! Ok Ok you are right I was hoping no one would catch that, now I have to xplain. Talent and a voracious genuinely intense interest in a topic are like two sides of a coin. According to Henry Ford- "genius is experience" That is very pithy. Ford believed in reincarnation. so if Tesla was a bad dude in electricity, it is based on Tesla ( and edison too ) deep interest in past lives, and this interest carries over into the present life, and so on, and so on. In other words when Tesla and Edison and Ford and your fave pianist RETURN to Earth they will have an intense interest in what interested them in prior life. It makes sense, think of prodigies Mozart, Chick, Herbie Past life makes sense. But in THIS life, it is clear that intense focus for a protracted period of time will produce much greater "results" than haphazard efforts Genius is almost always accompanied by intense interest in the topic(s). which is the why, of the 99% perspiration that seems superhuman to normal people. It boils down to great LOVE for something And I hate to say it, but if a person is pretty untalented, it seems hard to picture them going very far. Nevertheless if some x factor " presides " they will make progress in one lifetime- maybe not a genius, but great progress. Happy now!! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 It strikes me as being a bad loser of an argument to reverse the obvious truth. The randomizing of concepts isn't very nice either. There are quite a few types of people who'd like to taken as a serious person, I'm not one of them in the interpretation which makes it my weak spot to feel something else then I mean, but I think there are some people seriously upset about what a lot of people come across like. I mean nobody can say they "won" an argument by ridiculing the obvious, and if people just want to create a form of randomness from what they don't understand or do not *want* to understand, that is their weakness, not mine. Agreed musicians aren't necessarily used to engineer speak, but suggesting it's a OK send someone off as not comprehensible while it is damn clear what he's talking about is a sign of weakness, not something that convinces rational people. What I've argued in short amounts to observing that if lets say Herbie Hancock would have wanted to join lets say a boy's choir when he was young, that here there are a lot of opinions represented here which would let him die artistically in there, and never give him a break to become famous, and that the type of people who don't have such thinking space in their minds are trying very hard to write a lot more words than me, without saying all too profoundly much. It is my impression that's not good musicians leadership, and that all the words of the boy's choir directors hide their lack of respect for what is more advanced than they'll ever be, and lack of love for that idea. Ir. Theo Verelst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Aaaaaa Theo, I am not shore if u r pulling our legs if you are not your threads are incomprehensible get help with them- find a normal person versed in English Lit to help you then resubmit, otherwise your threads are rubbish You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 What is your education level ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 What is your education level ? irrelevant- I don't know what you are talking about and apparently others here have said to ignore you Can we drop this ? You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 No. I'm an University Engineer, nobody just discards me like that unless they make clear where they stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 No. I'm an University Engineer, nobody just discards me like that unless they make clear where they stand. Wanna bet? Clonk here to ignore Theo Verelst. That's the sound of dozens of forumites ignoring you, without your permission. Deal with it. Edited to add: I'm an equal opportunity sort of guy, so feel free to clonk here to ignore Sven Golly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Svengali " Look into my eyes" " you're eyes are gett ing veery heavy, and you feel veeeery sleeepy" Thank you Mr Sven You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ok Theo baby, what i said was I do not understand what you are typing here at the forum Whether my education is 5th grade or Post Graduate Rocket Science the fact is, I cannot respond to you , I have already tried to no avail I CANNOT respond to what I do not understand. So unless you are going to change your methods of communicating, I can no longer pay any attention to your posts. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Theo, I'm going to come to missRT's, and YOUR, defense to say I'm not one of the forumites setting you on "ignore," but missRT is right, it is hard to understand your posts most of the time because many phrases are unclear. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that it is because English is not your native language. I can tell you really want to discuss topics, and I'm sure others can see this too and they are not trying to be mean; sometimes it's just really, really hard to decipher what you are saying. Maybe you are expressing complex ideas that are getting lost in the translation ... maybe more simplicity in your expression would be more accurate English and we can all go from there. Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 No. Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 No. I'm an University Engineer, nobody just discards me like that unless they make clear where they stand. Egotism is "characterized by an exaggerated estimate of one's intellect, ability, importance, appearance, wit, or other valued personal characteristics" the drive to maintain and enhance favorable views of oneself. "The superiority complex is one of the ways which a person with an inferiority [feeling] complex may use as a method of escape from his difficulties. He assumes that he is superior when he is not, and this false success compensates him for the state of inferiority which he cannot bear. The normal person does not have a superiority complex, he does not even have a sense of superiority. He has the striving to be superior in the sense that we all have ambition to be successful; but so long as this striving is expressed in work it does not lead to false valuations, which are at the root of mental disease." -- Alfred Adler Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Yeah, in other words, a man has to know his limitations! I meant this thread to be an educational, open ended, even fun, discussion about our favorites, and for us to gently go over some of our differences. Not an Ultimate Fight, but an intelligent discussion. Not putting anyone down. Anyone even MENTIONED as anyones nominees, is a huge kudo to that pianist. I also feel that the idea of hierarchy is an underlying issue, both here, and in society in general. You either have a sense that hierarchy applies in the art of jazz piano, or you do not. My assumption is hierarchy is very controversial. Maybe someone would like to discuss an hierarchal ordering of pianists as a terrible idea, or as a good idea but within certain limitations? You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 When my knee jerk reaction is to dismiss someone ( as I did with the Prof ) I catch myself and put myself in their shoes as best I know how. I tried on more than one attempt, to be clear; yet irony of ironies, the Prof is telling ME to be clear! Talking to him is like talking to someone from another planet, so to speak. And forget about the threads TOPIC. Just the simplest communication is anything but clear to me with him. But having said that, there may be some who feel this way ( miss RT is UNCLEAR ) about my posts. If that is the case, I would like to know about it. I will try to be clearer. This is a complicated topic I have brought up, so clarity is not easy with this kind of thing! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoGuyPan Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 +1 on Duke Pearson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 The list is already in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_pianists Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Stanley Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I dig Theo's posts actually. You have to agree there's nothing else like them on this forum and it preferable to the lame facepalm or popcorn eating emoticons that are so played out here. They're kind of like being on acid, or..... I mean like what I've heard it's like, or .... I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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