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Dear Abby -Should I quit my gig?


LX88

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In the interest of playing devil's advocate, let me pose an alternate scenario. You're the BL and you've had a number of issues with the drummer having a bad attitude and overplaying. You're playing a gig and he's throwing in a bunch of extra fills and you ask him to tone it down. He responds by stopping in the middle of the song to make a point. Would you be justified to call him an asshole?

 

Well Dan, my take on it is, if the relationship is THAT sour, I just don't see how it is worth continuing, especially if the leader has an issue with alcohol. It sounds like the OP IS weighing options, and sadly, since there are so few, is looking for work outside of the gigs and selling off gear. It's like a divorce. Divorces don't end GOOD marriages ...

 

Again, I realize being a woman my take may be different. This is one of the few times where I will concede there would be a difference, professionally, among the sexes. :D I can't find an analogy where I'd feel even remotely comfortable with a drunken leader calling me an asshole onstage. And I can't separate the notion that, to me, it implies a possible physical threat. So I know you guys might tend to be more rational about micro-analyzing this, but on the other hand, just consider that to me, it does sound abusive.

 

I dunno, LX88 ... I'm sorry gigs are so scarce that one with negativity issues on many fronts seems like the best thing going. I really hope that isn't true and that you will find that to be the case when you look for another band, assuming you want to.

Original Latin Jazz

CD Baby

 

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

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I only pose the question because in my own band, things have gotten pretty tense between members at times, and there have been blow-ups. Taken as an isolated incident, you'd think - God what an asshole! But we've always eventually worked out our differences. Granted, most of our blow-ups have occurred off-stage...but that's why I asked if it was seen by the audience or just between them. You can call somebody an asshole onstage without anybody hearing it. Again - not the appropriate way to handle it....but he's saying he needs the money and there aren't any other gigs. So if it's a personal issue, maybe it can be resolved. And again, if the whole band feels the same, then dump the BL. But I still haven't heard these questions answered.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I would have told him to fuck off and then walked out mid-set. Sometimes it's better to be broke. We get enough disrespect from the general public and from clubowners/party planners/whomever. We don't need it from our fellow musicians too....

 

Could'nt agree more with that.

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I wonder how this A-hole gets the paying gigs? Maybe, the audience/patrons love him and his attitude. :rolleyes:

 

However, if you are in like company at a loud, rowdy gig why would your audience care if you yelled back at him? You ever watch Entourage :laugh:

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I only pose the question because in my own band, things have gotten pretty tense between members at times, and there have been blow-ups. Taken as an isolated incident, you'd think - God what an asshole! But we've always eventually worked out our differences. Granted, most of our blow-ups have occurred off-stage...but that's why I asked if it was seen by the audience or just between them. You can call somebody an asshole onstage without anybody hearing it. Again - not the appropriate way to handle it....but he's saying he needs the money and there aren't any other gigs. So if it's a personal issue, maybe it can be resolved. And again, if the whole band feels the same, then dump the BL. But I still haven't heard these questions answered.

 

Why do you keep posting these questions. Its irrelevant because its not what happened so why do you keep talking about it, the guys still an asshole anyway. Stop posting the same thing over and over.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Resentment - means going over and over the same thing - bad feelings to stir up the negative sensations and eminity against the bad guy. The exact opposite of moving on without the baggage. feel it over and over - imagine running your tongue over a bad tooth.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
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Again, I realize being a woman my take may be different. This is one of the few times where I will concede there would be a difference, professionally, among the sexes. :D I can't find an analogy where I'd feel even remotely comfortable with a drunken leader calling me an asshole onstage. And I can't separate the notion that, to me, it implies a possible physical threat. So I know you guys might tend to be more rational about micro-analyzing this, but on the other hand, just consider that to me, it does sound abusive.
I don't thing this is a male/female thing, really. A lot of men would feel the same way. Maybe a higher percentage of women, is all.

 

 

Rationality can come down on either side here. It's perfectly rational to choose your income over your dignity, or vice versa. That's a value judgement. Both answers can be perfectly rational. (Both can be irrational too, depending on the situation!)

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I only pose the question because in my own band, things have gotten pretty tense between members at times, and there have been blow-ups. Taken as an isolated incident, you'd think - God what an asshole! But we've always eventually worked out our differences. Granted, most of our blow-ups have occurred off-stage...but that's why I asked if it was seen by the audience or just between them. You can call somebody an asshole onstage without anybody hearing it. Again - not the appropriate way to handle it....but he's saying he needs the money and there aren't any other gigs. So if it's a personal issue, maybe it can be resolved. And again, if the whole band feels the same, then dump the BL. But I still haven't heard these questions answered.

 

Why do you keep posting these questions. Its irrelevant because its not what happened so why do you keep talking about it, the guys still an asshole anyway. Stop posting the same thing over and over.

Why do you keep asking him why? He'll just answer, and you'll ask him why again! :laugh:

 

Dan has a point. Ignore it if you want. You've registered your disagreement. His point may be inapplicable here; which he clearly understands. Regardless, he's entitled to his opinion.

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I'm coming in a bit late to the discussion, but I have a couple questions

 

1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

2. Since you sing 3/4 of the songs, just what does this guy do?

 

3. Is he the guy that does the booking?

 

4. Is he a real "Leader" or does he just own the PA

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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I only pose the question because in my own band, things have gotten pretty tense between members at times, and there have been blow-ups. Taken as an isolated incident, you'd think - God what an asshole! But we've always eventually worked out our differences. Granted, most of our blow-ups have occurred off-stage...but that's why I asked if it was seen by the audience or just between them. You can call somebody an asshole onstage without anybody hearing it. Again - not the appropriate way to handle it....but he's saying he needs the money and there aren't any other gigs. So if it's a personal issue, maybe it can be resolved. And again, if the whole band feels the same, then dump the BL. But I still haven't heard these questions answered.

 

Why do you keep posting these questions. Its irrelevant because its not what happened so why do you keep talking about it, the guys still an asshole anyway. Stop posting the same thing over and over.

Why do you keep asking him why? He'll just answer, and you'll ask him why again! :laugh:

 

Dan has a point. Ignore it if you want. You've registered your disagreement. His point may be inapplicable here; which he clearly understands. Regardless, he's entitled to his opinion.

 

Because his not getting the drift of it and should stay out of the topic.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Why do you keep posting these questions. Its irrelevant because its not what happened so why do you keep talking about it, the guys still an asshole anyway. Stop posting the same thing over and over.

Why do you keep asking him why? He'll just answer, and you'll ask him why again! :laugh:

 

Dan has a point. Ignore it if you want. You've registered your disagreement. His point may be inapplicable here; which he clearly understands. Regardless, he's entitled to his opinion.

 

Because his not getting the drift of it and should stay out of the topic.

 

Who died and made you arbiter of who should and shouldn't participate in topics? :confused:

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Back to my original question on the original post....

 

I am actually more curious about how many other people have had to put up with this kind of nonsense, rather than what I should do - which has become rather obvious.

 

As I mentioned previously, it doesn't happen on only the lower class gigs, it happens on some of the better ones too ( as the Don Felder/ Eagles book describes).

 

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I've never had a bandleader swear at me - maybe I've lived a quiet life.

 

I think forcible/shouted instructions are fine in the heat of the moment on stage, but bad language probably not called for. It's all about context and whether you can joke about it afterwards.

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1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

You're not allowed to ask that question or suggest that response any more. I've apparently already asked/suggested too many times and our fellow forumites are getting mad at me. Apparently the only reason for this thread is to get a cheer leading section going for the OP.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

You're not allowed to ask that question or suggest that response any more. I've apparently already asked/suggested too many times and our fellow forumites are getting mad at me. Apparently the only reason for this thread is to get a cheer leading section going for the OP.

 

Dear 80's Thriller

Your questions were penetrating, and valid. Those who object to your questions are behaving obstructionistically. I am on your side of this issue. Ask again, I would like to know. And forumites "getting mad" is ironical, given the nature of this whole mess that the OP finds HIMSELF in.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Dan, it was one forumite who complained about you "posting the same thing over and over," and that poster doesn't see the irony... ;)

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

You're not allowed to ask that question or suggest that response any more. I've apparently already asked/suggested too many times and our fellow forumites are getting mad at me. Apparently the only reason for this thread is to get a cheer leading section going for the OP.

 

It sounds like you are saying that some here are assholes.

FunMachine.

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1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

You're not allowed to ask that question or suggest that response any more. I've apparently already asked/suggested too many times and our fellow forumites are getting mad at me. Apparently the only reason for this thread is to get a cheer leading section going for the OP.

 

It sounds like you are saying that some here are assholes.

 

A very astute observation of a very astute observation. :D

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1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

You're not allowed to ask that question or suggest that response any more. I've apparently already asked/suggested too many times and our fellow forumites are getting mad at me. Apparently the only reason for this thread is to get a cheer leading section going for the OP.

 

that's not it at all. I was just saying what your asking was not relevant in this instance.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Just call the leader an A$$hole on stage at the next gig. Then you're even. He cant fire you for doing what he did at the previous gig.

 

Wow, have you got a lot to learn about human nature!

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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1. Is he this way to everyone in the band?

 

Maybe an option would be for the entire band to get together and fire him.

 

You're not allowed to ask that question or suggest that response any more. I've apparently already asked/suggested too many times and our fellow forumites are getting mad at me. Apparently the only reason for this thread is to get a cheer leading section going for the OP.

 

that's not it at all. I was just saying what your asking was not relevant in this instance.

 

Because you repeated that you think it's irrelevant AGAIN, I will make ONE more attempt to explain why it is, then I'm done. Please actually read this....

 

The title is "Should I Quit My Gig?"

 

He stated that there are no other gigs and he needs the money to eat.

 

So 2 options:

1) starve

2) make the best of the gig

 

Assuming he chooses not to starve to death, then he's left with the gig. We all agree that he shouldn't work under the conditions of being called an asshole onstage. SO, to alleviated that situation, his options are:

 

1) IF it is a personal conflict between he and the BL, work it out....personally....on the side...so that it doesn't erupt on stage

2) IF the entire band agrees with hs assessment of the BL, ditch the BL and do the gigs with the rest of he band, and a replacement for the BL.

 

So in fact, to solve his problem, the BL's inappropriate actions are irrelevant to the solution, and the answers o my questions are.

 

Now, if he doesn't care to solve this problem and just wants everybody to pile on and agree with him that his situation sucks, then the questions are irrelevant - I agree.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Again, I realize being a woman my take may be different. This is one of the few times where I will concede there would be a difference, professionally, among the sexes. :D I can't find an analogy where I'd feel even remotely comfortable with a drunken leader calling me an asshole onstage. And I can't separate the notion that, to me, it implies a possible physical threat. So I know you guys might tend to be more rational about micro-analyzing this, but on the other hand, just consider that to me, it does sound abusive.
I don't thing this is a male/female thing, really. A lot of men would feel the same way. Maybe a higher percentage of women, is all.

 

 

Rationality can come down on either side here. It's perfectly rational to choose your income over your dignity, or vice versa. That's a value judgement. Both answers can be perfectly rational. (Both can be irrational too, depending on the situation!)

 

I understand what you are saying Jeff, but I'm not just talking about "dignity". I'm talking about feeling physically threatened. That is why I think in this case there might be a difference between how men and women would filter being treated this way. Wouldn't this go beyond "value judgment," if you are concerned about your physical safety around a person? Would you generally stay in a situation when you think it might come to blows?

 

On a related note, to answer the OP's new question, I've been shot looks and "scolded" onstage (both rightfully or wrongly) but always very subdued and never so the audience could hear it, and never being called derogatory names. But it was a different situation because I was co-leading this band, and the other guy and I had an understanding, of sorts. And it was usually more about rallying the other person who's having a bad night to dig in and bring it, or steer the other to adhere to musical vision -- sort of like, we had each other's backs, really. I knew he ultimately respected me and my playing very much, and I also knew once this gig or moment was over, we saw eye to eye. We had a musical and friendship bond that made this more like fighting among siblings, but even that can be destructive ... in my case it was not. I have never been treated with anything but respect in other bands/onstage that I can remember. I can handle a few looks here and there, but usually everyone's smiling at the end of the night.

 

It just doesn't sound like the trust or respect I had in the one band I spoke of is there in this case, and the outburst seems a bit severe for the "transgression." I've seen band members in other bands come to blows on the bandstand and would never want to be part of an outfit where that might be a risk. Again, my .02.

 

 

Original Latin Jazz

CD Baby

 

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

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I understand what you are saying Jeff, but I'm not just talking about "dignity". I'm talking about feeling physically threatened. That is why I think in this case there might be a difference between how men and women would filter being treated this way. Wouldn't this go beyond "value judgment," if you are concerned about your physical safety around a person? Would you generally stay in a situation when you think it might come to blows?
Dignity was an example, not a catchall. It's a value judgement whether financial risk outweighs physical risk, because it's an apples and oranges comparison (to some extent -- one can't play with broken bones!) Again, I think this is male/female only as a statistical generalization. I know fearless women, and I know men who choose to avoid violence at all costs.

 

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Option #3 also requires the assistance of a few highly skilled medical people, so that the value of the kidneys doesn't depreciate. Knowing which public officials to bribe and how much is also useful information. That frequently can make an otherwise profitable plan to be low- or non- profitable.

 

In event of choosing door #3, one should also have pre-planned how to dispose of the remains in a manner that does not bring liklihood of felony charges.

 

After consideration of above; #3 might be re-wirtten to have all the band members EXCEPT the BL form a new band, and take the profits such as they are with one less varmit to divide the profits.

 

 

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Option #3 also requires the assistance of a few highly skilled medical people, so that the value of the kidneys doesn't depreciate. Knowing which public officials to bribe and how much is also useful information. That frequently can make an otherwise profitable plan to be low- or non- profitable.

 

In event of choosing door #3, one should also have pre-planned how to dispose of the remains in a manner that does not bring liklihood of felony charges.

 

After consideration of above; #3 might be re-wirtten to have all the band members EXCEPT the BL form a new band, and take the profits such as they are with one less varmit to divide the profits.

 

 

That all sounds like a lot of work. Musicians are too lazy for that. :laugh:

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