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Dear Abby -Should I quit my gig?


LX88

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It seems to me that the first thing to do is talk to this guy. Although what he did was unprofessional and unacceptable there are always two sides to a story. I got to believe that there must have been some ongoing issues that led to this. Walking away, ignoring it and or not confronting him shows that he is justified in his idiotism.

 

 

We play for free. We get paid to set up and tear down.
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Have never been called "Asshole" on stage.... Straight, or stoned - or whatever - your first time saying that to me is your last time.

 

This!! I'm sorry, but this is not only unprofessional, but reeks of complete lack of respect for you as a human being. Maybe this "leader" speaks this way to everyone, so it's not a matter of taking it personally ... but that doesn't matter. It takes two to tango (Adan's 3/4 comment is now swimming in my head for my amusement, LOL), and if others want to subject themselves to abuse it is their prerogative. Personally, ... um, no. I might have a different perspective as a woman, because I think in a professional setting men DO treat women more politely ... I understand that maybe there is some leeway some guys might afford another dude who talks like this to them, but to me, it just seems like abuse.

 

I would have packed up and walked out at next break ... but then, I also would be concerned for my safety. Sane people just don't talk to me that way. I'm sorry the money thing makes you feel like you really need this, because if you don't think you can bear to look this jerk in the eye, you already have your answer as to what you should do.

 

If you want to consider staying on this gig, your only other option is to confront him about it, and as others here have said, back up what you say ("one more time and I'm gone" ... then you have to be gone if it happens). It could go one of two ways -- 1. you could make him realize how much he's gonna miss your capabilities, esp. the singing, or 2. it could get even uglier at the confrontation. But hey, if the latter happens, it's better to know. I just don't think, once he decides to treat you that way, that he's going to dial back the disrespect. Just my .02.

Original Latin Jazz

CD Baby

 

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

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It seems to me that the first thing to do is talk to this guy. Although what he did was unprofessional and unacceptable there are always two sides to a story. I got to believe that there must have been some ongoing issues that led to this. Walking away, ignoring it and or not confronting him shows that he is justified in his idiotism.

 

 

On going issues? Let's assume there weren't any. Is it still acceptable? What if the guy is still an asshole??

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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That 'leader' was totally off-side. Rule #1 for a leader is that you keep conflicts and difficulties away from the audience. Calling you out on mic for something that trivial is abuse. It doesn't matter what his personal issues are; his behaviour was wrong. Duke Ellington had Juan Tizol try to knife Charlie Mingus on the bandstand and he didn't yell at either of them, during or after.

 

Tell him you won't accept that behaviour and will walk (during the break because YOU are a pro) and look for another gig. Being a musician is hard enough already to have to put up with some idiot making it harder. And if he thought that yelling at you onstage would get a better performance out of you he IS an idiot.

Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker
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If you rely on this for any kind of income at all you did the right thing by finishing the night. Like a ref who only throws the flag on the player who retaliated, club owners often don't see who started a band fight. You have to stay on the good side of these guys.

 

Think this through and do something though - like quit just before the next big job.

 

Revenge is a dish best served cold. - Khan

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And when you do walk... On your way out let the air out of his tires.... That should do it.... :)

 

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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It's rare that I have seen that behaviour from another musician. (Club managers are another story.)

 

Even if you do confront the leader and come to some kind of understanding, given the guy's substance abuse and lack of regard for you and everyone else in the room when he chastised you, I'll bet that there is a good chance that you would not see the end of his bad behaviour. Abusers are notorious for demonstrating remorse and then going right back to their abusive ways after a honeymoon period. I wouldn't put up with that from any boss/leader in any job. I hope the guy isn't married.

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To answer someone's question yes....of course there have been ongoing issues between this person and myself. In fact (no joke) it is a miracle I have survived two years in this situation.

 

Among other things , I witnessed a mass shooting in which three women were killed (by an off duty police officer no less!) while on a gig with this band.

 

The relentlessly intense volume that this band often performs at sure didn't help to cool the incident we saw developing before our eyes. The cop and his wife and been arguing and two women who stood up to support her were also blown away by this fool, as the band played on.

 

I feel like a complete idiot sometimes for ever allowing myself to even be in a situation like this but the hard fact is.... I like to be able to pay bills at the end of the month. I also like to be able to afford to eat etc. etc.

 

I think more than a few of us are starting to experience how very difficult this is actually becoming.

 

Even the best of bands like the Beatles have not been immune to power struggles from within. Such issues regretfully led to their early demise,even after all their success and their nearly unmatched comraderie.

 

Another eye opener was reading Don Felder's accounts of his experiences with Henley and Frey in the Eagles. According to Felder, Frey threatened him physically more than once during Eagles' concerts. Felder was eventually fired for daring to stand up to "the gods" within that band.

 

I also read about the Tizol/ Mingus knife threatening incident in the Charles Mingus autobiography. Interestingly , Ellington took the side of Tizol(the composer of "Caravan") because Juan was an "old" problem rather than the "new" problem that Mingus was becoming.

 

So, again I stand at the Crossroads. I have been a gigging musician for many years but it has come to the point where this just isn't working out any more.

 

It's fairly amazing how hard we hold on to our dreams, isn't it?

 

 

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I am curious as to the answers to Eric JX's questions as well....

 

Often these types of blow-ups are the culmination of a slow-brewing build-up of tension over a long period of time. It doesn't excuse it, but it changes how you deal with it.

 

Does the rest of the band feel the same about him? Honestly, an unprofessional A-hole BL, volume issues, etc doesn't sound like a recipe for a band that can provide income you can't replace elsewhere. Why is the band successful? What does he contribute? If everybody feels the same about him, replace him. Maybe you have to play under a different name, but he can't play gigs without a band, and if your new band is the same lineup minus him, I'm pretty sure you could pick up those shows.

 

OTOH, if this s just something personal that's been brewing between the two of you, then you need to settle it with him or move on.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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The guy calls his bandmembers "A-holes"? WTF!

 

You should show him what an asshole does!

 

In all sincerity, to answer your question, "YES" quit that gig!

-Greg

Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent

Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255

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I would have told him to fuck off and then walked out mid-set. Sometimes it's better to be broke. We get enough disrespect from the general public and from clubowners/party planners/whomever. We don't need it from our fellow musicians too....

 

Yep! This.

 

But I don't need the band income. I play 8-12 times a month but I do it just because I love playing.

 

But if I did need the money, still this.

 

Although I did play with a band where the leader would call me 'you piano playin' son of a *****'. But apparently this is a term of endearment that means he thought I played really well. Those guys were a crazy and very fun bunch to play with. They could fight real good too. I always felt safe playing with them.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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The guy calls his bandmembers "A-holes"? WTF!

 

...

 

It's all in the delivery and tone. But still not thing I would like to see made a habit.

 

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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The guy calls his bandmembers "A-holes"? WTF!

 

...

 

It's all in the delivery and tone. But still not thing I would like to see made a habit.

Like if someones calling you an asshole in a nice way LOL :laugh:

-Greg

Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent

Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255

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Your avatar is cool! Is that your child? It is a great picture.
Thanks. Yeah, thats my daughter at about 6 months old. Shes a rocker!

-Greg

Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent

Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255

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I am not sure how much support I can expect from this forum after some of my (occasionally)outspoken posts. but I want to run this by some of you.

 

Last night I was playing a gig and the bass player was playing a solo, to which I was attempting to play (what I intended to be) a tasteful accompaniment.

 

During all of this this the bandleader abruptly yelled at me to "BRING IT DOWN !!!" and so I basically stopped playing for a couple bars. I then heard this guy yell at me "I didn't mean to stop playing - ASSHOLE!!!".

 

Well , needless to say the rest of the night was basically toast, even though I am expected to sing 3/4 of the tunes .... many of them unrehearsed requests. That in itself can be quite a challenge... to be spot on with no prior preparation.

 

I just about walked OFF of the gig after this outburst but to be honest, I needed the money too badly.

 

Plus I think that whatever happens, it would probably have been worse to walk out and cause a scene so I hung in there even though I hated every second of being on the stage with someone who would attempt to humiliate me publically.

 

What I really need to do is take a leap of faith, get out of this scene and look for another gig. The fact is though that paying gigs are scarce in my neck of the woods.

 

Plus I am at the point where I don't think that I can look this fool in the eye that I work for anymore. Among other things, to say that he drinks and smokes pot "a bit" would be an understatement. Just try to communicate rationally with THAT.

 

I am just curious how many of you have had to endure this kind of crap and how you dealt with it.

 

...why do I suspect the/any guitar player wouldn't be forced to put up with that kind of disrespect ?

 

We've all got our cross to bear; apparently you need the dough.

 

Address your finances. Sell stuff. Get a day job.

 

Do not allow yourself to be a victim; like it or not-YOU HAVE.

 

This isn't really about playing an accompaniment, a shouting match, or

assholes. It's about you putting yourself in a situation with limited options.

 

Create those options for yourself and you'll be less dependent on the

good graces of bad people.

 

Good luck.

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...why do I suspect the/any guitar player wouldn't be forced to put up with that kind of disrespect ?

 

We've all got our cross to bear; apparently you need the dough.

 

Address your finances. Sell stuff. Get a day job.

 

Do not allow yourself to be a victim; like it or not-YOU HAVE.

 

This isn't really about playing an accompaniment, a shouting match, or

assholes. It's about you putting yourself in a situation with limited options.

 

Create those options for yourself and you'll be less dependent on the

good graces of bad people.

 

Good luck.

Damn.... well put http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/criminal_child/emoticons/Emoticon_clap.gif

-Greg

Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent

Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255

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You did the sensible thing, and the professional thing.

 

Clearly you shouldn't be in this band. So, find a new one. Stick with this one until you've found one.

 

In "normal" work, the best time to get a job is when you have one. It's a lot of work, but the fact that you're employed says something. Maybe not so much in the music world ... maybe ...

 

Second, while looking, make your current job as good and successful as it possibly can be. Part of that includes a discussion with the leader about what you require (i.e., professionalism on his part). Don't mention that you're looking. He'll either find out or not; that's his problem.

 

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The guy calls his bandmembers "A-holes"?

Yeah, that's the line-crossing moment for me.

 

Plenty off miscommunication happens on stage ... we had a guy sing with us on a couple of songs Saturday, and I thought he wanted me to take an organ solo, but he was actually trying to get me to bring the volume down with the rest of the band. No animus, of course, but I wish he'd have been clearer -- I'm not really a solo kind of player, especially on organ, and hate soloing in B!! ... but there's no excuse for being an asshole by calling a bandmate one on stage ... or ever, really.

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...why do I suspect the/any guitar player wouldn't be forced to put up with that kind of disrespect ?

 

We've all got our cross to bear; apparently you need the dough.

 

Address your finances. Sell stuff. Get a day job.

 

Do not allow yourself to be a victim; like it or not-YOU HAVE.

 

This isn't really about playing an accompaniment, a shouting match, or

assholes. It's about you putting yourself in a situation with limited options.

 

Create those options for yourself and you'll be less dependent on the

good graces of bad people.

 

Good luck.

Damn.... well put http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/criminal_child/emoticons/Emoticon_clap.gif

 

I have to agree with Start/Run (and even with Mogut). Your original question calls for a micro-analysis, but maybe the real answer is found through macro-analysis. Apparently, you live in a place where there are few gigging options. Because of this, and because of your reliance on gigging, you're stuck with a bad one. Despite all the good advice about how to deal with this guy, chances are he is unlikely to change.

 

 

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I would NEVER expect anybody to change. I know very clearly what I have to accept and have to deal with.

 

Definitely this is a blue collar gigging situation. Boss drinks too much, on the job. Irrational crap happens all the time.

 

I do not "choose" to be a victim of this , but I know very well that it likely to happen when you work with an active drinker . The thing is, I have been trying to just be able to eat and pay bills. But even that is becoming damn near impossible.

 

I am gearing up to sell a bunch of stuff. Anybody need a B-3 or an A -100 ? How about a leslie, or maybe one of a couple of nice suitcase Rhodes or even a Wurli 140 or 200?.

 

During the days ( 15 years or so ago) when they were giving this stuff away, I stockpiled a bunch of it for a "rainy day". It looks like now would be the time to let go of some of it.

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I'd still be curious what the other band members think, and has there been a history of personal conflict? Also, did the audience hear what he said or was it just between the 2 of you? These things are usually more complex than the simplified version we hear on here. That's not to say you aren't justified to feel the way you do - and his way of dealing with it was certainly inappropriate. But again, the other details may shed light on how to respond.

 

In the interest of playing devil's advocate, let me pose an alternate scenario. You're the BL and you've had a number of issues with the drummer having a bad attitude and overplaying. You're playing a gig and he's throwing in a bunch of extra fills and you ask him to tone it down. He responds by stopping in the middle of the song to make a point. Would you be justified to call him an asshole?

 

Not saying that this is what happened in your situation. Just pointing out that details can change your perspective.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I'd still be curious what the other band members think, and has there been a history of personal conflict? Also, did the audience hear what he said or was it just between the 2 of you? These things are usually more complex than the simplified version we hear on here. That's not to say you aren't justified to feel the way you do - and his way of dealing with it was certainly inappropriate. But again, the other details may shed light on how to respond.

 

In the interest of playing devil's advocate, let me pose an alternate scenario. You're the BL and you've had a number of issues with the drummer having a bad attitude and overplaying. You're playing a gig and he's throwing in a bunch of extra fills and you ask him to tone it down. He responds by stopping in the middle of the song to make a point. Would you be justified to call him an asshole?

 

Not saying that this is what happened in your situation. Just pointing out that details can change your perspective.

 

What does all that matter? Its not acceptable and I dont think he deserved it.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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I'd still be curious what the other band members think, and has there been a history of personal conflict? Also, did the audience hear what he said or was it just between the 2 of you? These things are usually more complex than the simplified version we hear on here. That's not to say you aren't justified to feel the way you do - and his way of dealing with it was certainly inappropriate. But again, the other details may shed light on how to respond.

 

In the interest of playing devil's advocate, let me pose an alternate scenario. You're the BL and you've had a number of issues with the drummer having a bad attitude and overplaying. You're playing a gig and he's throwing in a bunch of extra fills and you ask him to tone it down. He responds by stopping in the middle of the song to make a point. Would you be justified to call him an asshole?

Yes, you would; but not on the bandstand, during the set, and/or in front of the audience.

Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker
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