StanC Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The description of the recorder had just what I was looking for: " . . . great for recording rehearsals, live performances. . . ". I cannot set the input level low enough to get a recording of a live performance without serious distortion. The recorder was placed center stage on one occasion, front of stage on another and in the crowd on a third. In all recordings, best I can tell among the distortion, the instrument and vocal mix was good, but way overdriven. Seems to record OK when the source is at low volume. I cant understand how can they substantiate the claim of great for live performances? I have not tried recording with an external mic. So far Ive only used the internal. Anyone have any experience with this unit? Stan Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1 Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yes, the integral mics are not very good. I've had good results both with running a board mix into the line-in, and plugging in a better ambient mic. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanC Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 80s-LZ: Thanks for the reply. I tried board mixes too and the vocals are always over-powering. I attribute that to the fact the all our instruments are run through the board but have their own amps as well for stage monitors. So for a good FOH mix the instruments don't need as much gain in the board. So I think I want to try an external mic. Any recommendations on what mic to use? I did a quick search and found some on line. Low end was a Tascam at $23 or so; mid range Sony at $45 and the one made by Roland "designed" for the unit at $100. I'm thinking the Tascam would probably not be much better than the internal mic on the recorder. And also that the Roland is over priced, just because its "designed" for the R09HR. So maybe the Sony could be the best choice(?) Stan Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1 Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yeah, we run everything direct - no amps - so the board mix is usually decent. When I've used external mics, I brought a preamp and a condenser. This would be way more expensive than anything you're looking at. Maybe look at the Crown battery powered mic, but I don't really have experience with these types of mics. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have one of these, and it works great: Sony: No Baloney http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad216/tonysounds/SonyMic.jpg Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 On a similar note, I'm looking for a portable recorder that can do multitracking or some sort of "virtual" tracks that I can store. My sole purpose is so I can record somewhere besides my living room. Anyone have any experience with Zoom products? I've read that they are great and read that they are horrible. This is what I'm looking at: zoom There is also a Boss that is a bit more expensive. I've heard that Boss uses some kind of compressed audio, true? It's this one: Boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have the boss BR800 about 2 years old. The one thing I hate about it is it's not really user friendly. Without the manual I would be toast. It records nice, but with all the damn options and modeling and such it takes the inspiration out of the moment. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have the boss BR800 about 2 years old. The one thing I hate about it is it's not really user friendly. Without the manual I would be toast. It records nice, but with all the damn options and modeling and such it takes the inspiration out of the moment. Does it record at 24 bit? Does it compress audio (as I have read)? How are the pres- noisy? OK? Thanks. I really don't care so much about the complexity since I will only be using it for very simple needs: recording a bunch O tracks and dumping them in Sonar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 It's 24 bit 44.1khz sampling, I don't know about it compressing audio. I think the preamps are okay, doesn't compare to some of the high end preamps available but for a portable all in one solution I don't think they are bad at all. If I initially have the levels too high I can get some noise. The little condenser mics on it sound surprisingly good too. I initially did some recordings with it of me with an acoustic guitar that came out darn good. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have the r-09, and have used it in many many situations, some very loud, and never had a problem with the internal mics overloading or not being able to record a hot level from a line in. I did find however that the recording quality was greatly increased if I used the wall wart instead of battery power. As far as multi-tracking in a portable unit- there's a ton of great new options. One I've had my eye on for a long time has been the Zoom HR-4n, which records 4 tracks at once. For a live recording it's kind of ideal to get a board mix AND a mic mix (whether internal mics or external), and this recorder will do it. The new Roland R-26 looks amazing too- same form factor, but 6 tracks at once ($500), with both ambient and directional mics built-in. This would be my choice if I could afford it, love it that it has onboard omni mics, which can be more successful at capturing a noisy, busy environment than directional mics. The Korg Sound on Sound looks cool too- $200, and you can do an unlimited number of stereo tracks. The BR-800 looks cool too, with 4 track simultaneous recording and a bunch of other features; but I have no idea of how user friendly it is. Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks for the comments. The Korg Sound on Sound looks cool too- $200, and you can do an unlimited number of stereo tracks. 16 bit only. Randelph, does the HR4N let you "archive" tracks? In other words, can you store tracks somewhere or are you just limited to four tracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillplaying Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 On a similar note, I'm looking for a portable recorder that can do multitracking or some sort of "virtual" tracks that I can store. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep09/articles/zoomr16.htm I know it's the R16 and you mentioned the R8. I've been considering one of these for a while now. Still using a Zoom H2 and just doing stereo captures. It's easy to use and sounds fine. I only use it for demos and/or recording rehearsals. I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Cygnus64 wrote: Randelph, does the HR4N let you "archive" tracks? In other words, can you store tracks somewhere or are you just limited to four tracks? I think the word you're looking for is virtual tracks. No, it doesn't do virtual tracks. Was just looking again at the capabilities of the Korg sound on sound- it's pretty awesome- when you record over and over again while listening to all that you've already recorded, its all saved to individual wave files- i had just assumed that it was all squished together- so when you put it into a DAW you've got a bunch of individual wave files to work with, all synched to time code. But it is just 16 bit, which I don't see as that big of a limitation for rehearsal. Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 There are several editions of the Roland/Edirol recorders, usually with some indication of the rev but often using the same basic part number. The ones I have considered are the larger ones, and I like that they have four independent outputs as that would improve backing track flexibility (stereo vs. mono for audio, and separate mono cue tracks for the drummer and lead singer(s)). Believe it or not, the portable recorder that is creating quite a buzz right now is the one from Olympus, who are "sort of" new to audio but really have been doing audio for awhile due to that being part of camera and phone development these days. I think it was SOS that just did a shootout a few months back of all of the current portable recorders, but maybe it was another magazine. The reason I think it was SOS is that I don't have a printout of the article, meaning I was waiting for it to be old enough to go public vs. subscriber-only (I let my subscription lapse about two years ago). The four main factors that differentiate portable recorders are: 1. Number of outputs (only Roland seems to offer four) 2. Ability to use pro level connections 3. Orientation, type, and quality of built-in mics (X/Y and ORTF are becoming the most common) 4. File formats supported Beyond that, more esoteric features probably differ a lot as well, such as some of the ones the OP is interested in. I've been interested in one of these for some time, for four main purposes: 1. Field recording (e.g. foley effects gathering) 2. Travel (e.g. capturing local folk musicians and then producing the results once home and handing it over for them pro bono afterwards) 3. Rehearsals 4. Gigs (either recording the gig, or using for backing tracks) I have steered away from Zoom due to earlier reliability problems, but their recent models sound quite good based on the results of several bandmembers who have used them at rehearsals and gigs. Of course, many people are just going to Smart Phones these days for this sort of thing. But I like hands-on dedicated controls. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP3 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Look at the new Tascam DR-40. 96k/24bit 4 track recorder under $200. Pretty damn decent for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 The Tascam has been getting bad reviews for reliability and build quality. I was interested in it until that came out, but it reminded me that I've had troubles with everything I've ever owned from Tascam. I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt this time, but not anymore. The best thing to do is to hunt down that excellent and deep cross-comparison review. I'm not yet in the market for one of these so am not going to take the time to do that myself right now. A lot can be learned from that review, just as the one that was done last year for headphones. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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