Jason Stanfield Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 My Quik-Lok Z stand is getting rickety, and the bolts that keep the 2nd tier arms secure have fallen out, and my rig is a wobbly mess. Here's a pic from a recent show: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6057/6246999758_e8aa1dcb31.jpg I've lamented the fact that I can't find a stand that fits all the following qualifications: 1) standing height 2) sturdy for long-term use 3) has a height-, depth-, and angle-adjustable 2nd tier; AND 4) has quality fasteners and fittings Any stand system I find misses at least one of these. I snarked a few weeks ago "Are we to concede that keyboard stands (like pedals, and, well combo amps) are crap, and make heavy, awkward customized Gibraltar systems?" Given that the graveyard of stands in my storage unit is becoming ridiculous, I'm giving in. So imagine my delight when I saw this: [video:youtube]kMlcErM3BRc I'll have to get longer tubing to get it to standing height, and it will probably weigh and cost a bunch, but I've already spent a few hundred dollars on one $%#@! stand after another, so -- like the Speakeasy system -- I'm ready to get into something permanent. Jason Stanfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 That's fairly good looking too. Very nice find. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecaster Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks for sharing, I am looking for a stand for my XK3c with dual manuals and a Nord Electro3 HP on top, will the Gibraltar tand take all that weight? C3 & 122, XK3C & 3300, SK2 & Ventilator/3300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stanfield Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks for sharing, I am looking for a stand for my XK3c with dual manuals and a Nord Electro3 HP on top, will the Gibraltar tand take all that weight? That's what I'm wondering about. I assume they can, just based on the fact that they're designed to hold a bunch of drums and not buckle under the pounding ... BUT ... I also know that drum systems are made of lots of parts, thus distributing the weight better, and it's the clamps that make the difference (since individual drums don't weigh that much). My rig is a lot heavier than what's in the video above -- that guy has about 20 lb in keyboards; I'm going to be loading mine down with almost 100 lb in 'boards and cables! The system I'm thinking of is the same thing as in the video, just longer tubing (44" high, 44" wide) for the legs and crossbars. But since the bottom 'board is the 55 lb Roland RD-700NX, there may need to be a second set of legs on both sides to stabilize the whole assembly. I'm graffling out my design now, and will send images to someone at Gibraltar for advice. If it does require more than four tubes for the frame -- 2 legs, 1 top crossbar, and 1 bottom crossbar for stability & pedal management -- I may abandon the idea altogether. Already, looking at the MSRPs of the parts I need, I'm up to around $700!! Jason Stanfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I checked out the video and their site, and dropped them a note about putting together a basic two tier keyboard stand system, as a stand alone product, priced accordingly. They should at the minimum, include a "laundry list" of items to create the stand in the video. I also suggested that they include some specs about: 1. Weight capacity 2. Weight of the stand itself 3. Height and Width adjustment ranges Since they don't market to people who typically think about how much weight does this thing "have" to hold, since I don't think that drum kits have quite the range of weight variation as keyboards do. I don't think they quite thought out marketing this thing yet. Most of their rack stuff is pretty short on specs and there is no mention of weight or dimensions on any of it. Nice idea, but it will be expensive!! Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stanfield Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Good idea, meisenhower. They could probably clean up by offering some basic systems aimed at keyboarders. Jason Stanfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedKey Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Isn't that basically This for a LOT more money ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Not to pee in the cornflakes, but the one thing that would be a bummer about a stand like this is mobilty. True it's lightweight, but if you don't have room to leave it assembled like it was when he took it off stage, think about the assembly & tear down each time. Not a HUGE time factor, but certainly more involved than your average 2 tired ironing board stand or apex. I only thought of this because I still have a bunch of Ultimate Support pipes & pieces that have accumulated from years of gigging in the 80's & I still pull out pieces here & there because of the endless options. Still works, still versatile & still a bit of a nuissance to assemble / disassemble. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If you want to buy a Gibraltar stand, by all means. I wouldn't buy it from that ad. $117 shipping = BIG red flag. $117 shipping screams "It's not going to be as we advertised, so we're gonna make sure and screw you on the shipping so even if we have to give you a refund we still made a pile of money." A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Are they shipping from Gibraltar? Griffinator is spot on - never pay that much for shiping! "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Get a Standtastic. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecaster Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Get a Standtastic. this one? Standtastic thanks! C3 & 122, XK3C & 3300, SK2 & Ventilator/3300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogut Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Notice use of the sand bags and what appears to be weight blocks for a counter weight in this custom setup http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3525495039_8d575c059f.jpg -Greg Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Notice use of the sand bags and what appears to be weight blocks for a counter weight in this custom setup http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3525495039_8d575c059f.jpg That would be my concern. My drummer uses a Gibraltar rack setup for his extensive kit. Once it's all assembled, it's awesome and steady. However, many of the pieces are designed to work with each other to keep things steady. While the "offset" shown in the video probably works with the very light boards they use, I'd be wary of placing my CP33 and Triton on it without more counter weight or longer feet (the T part on the ground). Now, granted in the pic above, the guy is using the curved tom supports vertically to angle his keyboard forward causing even more of an imbalance. All this being said, it is a very cool idea, and I like the look of it. My only two concerns: offset stability, and mobility. David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogut Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Interesting choice of advertising isnt it? that pic I mean. -Greg Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Get a Standtastic. this one? Standtastic thanks! Yes. They make a three tier one as well. It's extremely stable. The only downside is that it takes some time initially to set it up, but once it's set, it's easy to fold it up and transport and then unfold and set up on the gig. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Interesting choice of advertising isnt it? that pic I mean. Very. David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stanfield Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Get a Standtastic. What a large stage footprint, though -- 30" deep! If the Gibraltar configuration I'm considering works, I'll only be 22" deep. Plus, I'm wary of buying another made-for-keyboard stand; all the ones I own have broken fasteners, missing parts, etc. -- they've all fallen apart after 20 or so setups and tear-downs. I'm just not willing to risk $300 on something I'm sure won't last me a year. With a Gibraltar system, if some clamp or fastener bites the dust, I can get a new clamp or fastener, not a whole new stand. Notice use of the sand bags and what appears to be weight blocks for a counter weight in this custom setup Yeah, he made that wrong; the feet are backwards! For the record, here's what I'm considering making -- note that the "feet" of the legs will be off-center to provide stability for the piano (the organ and synth shouldn't be off-balance enough to matter): http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6226/6250727931_d98459116e.jpg Jason Stanfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The top tier in the video didn't appear to be very steady. Even without a keyboard on it, it would "give" when he touched it demonstrating the rubber pieces, etc. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Isn't that basically This for a LOT more money ? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Isn't that basically This for a LOT more money ? No; USS A-frame hardware is aluminum, Gibraltar hardware is chrome-plated steel. I hate to say it, Jason, but I think you're heading down a road where you're going to be frustrated by not only the lack of stability for your rig (which is MUCH heavier than the rig in the Gibraltar demo video), but the very high cost. There's a HUGE difference between the load bearing requirements of keyboard stands versus drums. Especially when you set it up for standing height, you're moving the center of gravity MUCH higher, and you're going to have a very hard time keeping the rig stable. I attempted to put a 3-sided rig together in the mid-90's using this type of hardware, and could never get a stand that wouldn't bounce far too much to be playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Maximus_ Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 yup, if gibraltar wants to step into the keyboard stand bussiness their promo pic rig should not have sandbags , they need to design some specific parts for a full 3 tier system with a laptop and boom mic i feel that some of their components are heavy duty and could work very well with the 50+ pounds keyboards, they have the build know how and the distribution chain, i think they can be a player in that side of the business, but they need to design new components, and just trow together random parts and call it a keyboard stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 While I shudder at the weight of all that steel tubing, because of it I don't think strength is going to be an issue. Drum hardware is usually pretty sturdy because once drums are set up someone's going to hit them really hard repeatedly for several hours. It's the hardware that takes all that force. I'd be really interested in how well this system works. It seems like an expensive experiment though. Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Drum hardware is usually pretty sturdy because once drums are set up someone's going to hit them really hard repeatedly for several hours. It's the hardware that takes all that force. Yes, but you can hardly compare a few tom shells, no matter how hard the drummer hits, to the proposed RD700NX, now can you? Apples & oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogut Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I dont think the strength of the gibraltar hardware proper is an issue. There's no debate that a X-stand or a 4-post stand is the most rigid setup over, lets say, a C-shape stand. These exotic custom configurations will require the user to understand CofG and balancing the rig properly thats all. I actually might take a stab at it, and get some gibraltar hardware. I'll have to see what the connector elbows look like though... as far as capacity and load rating. -Greg Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stanfield Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 I hate to say it, Jason, but I think you're heading down a road where you're going to be frustrated by not only the lack of stability for your rig (which is MUCH heavier than the rig in the Gibraltar demo video), but the very high cost. There's a HUGE difference between the load bearing requirements of keyboard stands versus drums. Especially when you set it up for standing height, you're moving the center of gravity MUCH higher, and you're going to have a very hard time keeping the rig stable. Cost doesn't matter -- I've spent over $500 on stands in the past year, and they're all pretty much unusable. I'd rather spend another $500 for something that will last me a while, than spend the same amount on stands that keep falling apart. I'll be contacting Gibraltar today with the diagram of my rig, and asking for their opinion on whether the design will work or not. I know the center of gravity will be higher, so I may need to add legs to keep it stable enough that it won't fall over (if it's a little wobbly I'll live with that). Jason Stanfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogut Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I've spent over $500 on stands in the past year, and they're all pretty much unusable. ...which ones? Quik-Lok Z, and what else? -Greg Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Maximus_ Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 on related keyboard stand news, ultimate quietly discontinued the AX 90 here guess it was too big and heavy and it didn't sale, so if you wanted one now is the time to buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks for this, Maximus! I actually liked them but the combination of size, weight, and price made me give it a pass. If I can get one at a fire sale, though, I'd go for it. Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 We have this in Brazil: http://www.titaniumracks.com.br/teclados.htm Don´t know if it´s available in the US though, but seems very similar to your drawing.. My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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